2017 models now use new refrigerant

chippychip · 08-21-2016, 08:20 PM

The 2017 models are shipping with a new refrigerant and compressor. Even my 2017 Subaru has it.

CruzM3 · 08-21-2016, 09:58 PM

Interesting....hopefully it turns out to be a good thing.

claykin · 08-22-2016, 12:31 AM

Interesting. Assuming Wikipedia is accurate, seems BMW was against this refrigerant just 3.5 years back.

5x higher pressure than 134a. Hope they developed good seals and hoses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,...ite_note-CEN-2

eluded · 08-22-2016, 02:08 AM

Reliability is overrated. Let's do what's best for the environment.

Versipellis · 08-22-2016, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eluded

Reliability is overrated. Let's do what's best for the environment.

You mean, till someone gets killed because of an unreliable product, right?

Kabrich · 08-22-2016, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eluded

Reliability is overrated. Let's do what's best for the environment.

Park and your car and walk everywhere then.

englishguy84 · 08-22-2016, 06:30 PM

I'm not mechanically skilled enough to know why this is a cause for concern...could someone enlighten?

greekcs · 08-22-2016, 06:57 PM

R1234yf has approximately 8-10°C cooler
compressor discharge temperature vs R134a
As near drop-in, capacity and efficiency fall slightly
short of R134a

hollandog · 08-24-2016, 11:42 AM

So the new BMW AC will be cooler?
I find BMW AC is very weak compared to the G37 I had, or other Japanese cars.

chiefneil · 08-24-2016, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollandog

So the new BMW AC will be cooler?
I find BMW AC is very weak compared to the G37 I had, or other Japanese cars.

Yup, my E36, E46, and F30 have all had pretty weak AC although they've steadily gotten better each generation. That's basically saying it's gone from terrible to mediocre though

Living in Phoenix I'd say that I keep buying 3-series cars despite the AC.

Japanese and American cars definitely have the best AC. Our E53 (1st gen X5) had a surprisingly awesome AC though, but had some HVAC reliability issues. Our E70 (2nd gen X5) took a step back and the AC is less effective than the E53 while also being even more unreliable.

CruzM3 · 08-24-2016, 12:47 PM

I've had the opposite experience as both the e46s I owned had pretty good A/C. Both the F30s in my garage seem to have good A/C but it hasn't been above 90 much where I am since I got them. My American cars on the other hand had so-so A/C. Whenever it was really hot out they couldn't keep up.

chiefneil · 08-24-2016, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruz28/40

I've had the opposite experience as both the e46s I owned had pretty good A/C. Both the F30s in my garage seem to have good A/C but it hasn't been above 90 much where I am since I got them. My American cars on the other hand had so-so A/C. Whenever it was really hot out they couldn't keep up.

I'm in an extreme environment, so my experience probably isn't applicable to most people. When I lived in San Francisco, I thought the AC in my E36 was just fine. But when I moved to Phoenix with that same car the AC was so incapable of handling the heat (115F the week I moved!) that I had the windows tinted one week after moving.

This summer on days over 110F when I'm driving midday I have the AC going one or two notches below max, and that's with top of the line 3M Crystalline tint. Maybe I need to have the AC checked.

graphite · 08-24-2016, 05:46 PM

I've been incredibly impressed with the AC in my F30, but it is an ActiveHybrid which is a totally different setup than the gassers. It will practically form icicles in the cabin, even on 100+ degree days. I love it being able to run with the engine off and whatnot, and the fact that it routes refrigerant to the rear in between the battery cells for cooling is neat, but man, some of the best AC I've ever encountered. And I work at a car dealership with a lot of cars to compare to.

Kabrich · 08-27-2016, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphite

I've been incredibly impressed with the AC in my F30, but it is an ActiveHybrid which is a totally different setup than the gassers. It will practically form icicles in the cabin, even on 100+ degree days. I love it being able to run with the engine off and whatnot, and the fact that it routes refrigerant to the rear in between the battery cells for cooling is neat, but man, some of the best AC I've ever encountered. And I work at a car dealership with a lot of cars to compare to.

Yep, another advantage of the ActiveHybrids, especially in extreme environments and at every stoplight!

Versipellis · 08-27-2016, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphite

I've been incredibly impressed with the AC in my F30, but it is an ActiveHybrid which is a totally different setup than the gassers. It will practically form icicles in the cabin, even on 100+ degree days. I love it being able to run with the engine off and whatnot, and the fact that it routes refrigerant to the rear in between the battery cells for cooling is neat, but man, some of the best AC I've ever encountered. And I work at a car dealership with a lot of cars to compare to.

Interesting. What specifically about the ActiveHybrids makes them different in this sense?

tturedraider · 08-27-2016, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claykin

Interesting. Assuming Wikipedia is accurate, seems BMW was against this refrigerant just 3.5 years back.

5x higher pressure than 134a. Hope they developed good seals and hoses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,...ite_note-CEN-2

Actually it is carbon dioxide based refrigerant that would have 5x higher pressure than 134a. The new 1234yf operates at basically the same pressure as 134a.

claykin · 08-27-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Quote:

Originally Posted by claykin

Interesting. Assuming Wikipedia is accurate, seems BMW was against this refrigerant just 3.5 years back.

5x higher pressure than 134a. Hope they developed good seals and hoses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,...ite_note-CEN-2

Actually it is carbon dioxide based refrigerant that would have 5x higher pressure than 134a. The new 1234yf operates at basically the same pressure as 134a.

Gotcha. Thx.

Kabrich · 08-28-2016, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Versipellis

Interesting. What specifically about the ActiveHybrids makes them different in this sense?

Batteries in hybrids need cooling. Whether Tesla, Prius or BMW. The batteries need cooling, thus a heavier duty AC system.

ActiveHybrids AC also continues when gas engine is not on....even at stop lights, unlike non-hybrids.

08-21-2016, 08:20 PM	#1
chippychip Enlisted Member 28 Rep 42 Posts Drives: 2017 F30 340i \ 2010 E90 328i Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Washington, DC iTrader: (0)	2017 models now use new refrigerant The 2017 models are shipping with a new refrigerant and compressor. Even my 2017 Subaru has it. Attached Images
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08-21-2016, 09:58 PM	#2
CruzM3 Captain 284 Rep 703 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 "Velocity Edition" Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany iTrader: (0)	Interesting....hopefully it turns out to be a good thing. __________________ 2018 M3 ZCP "Edition Velocity" 2018 X3 30i (wife’s) 2017 340i w/ MPPSK & Many M Performance Parts (sold) 2016 328i (sold)
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08-22-2016, 12:31 AM	#3
claykin Brigadier General 1588 Rep 4,553 Posts Drives: various BMW Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	Interesting. Assuming Wikipedia is accurate, seems BMW was against this refrigerant just 3.5 years back. 5x higher pressure than 134a. Hope they developed good seals and hoses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,...ite_note-CEN-2 __________________ 2023 840GC \| 2021 740i \| 2019 X3
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08-22-2016, 02:08 AM	#4
eluded 2JZ-GTE 3038 Rep 3,992 Posts Drives: 340 6MT, 50e, others Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Sofia iTrader: (0)	Reliability is overrated. Let's do what's best for the environment. __________________ A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
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08-22-2016, 06:30 PM	#7
englishguy84 Second Lieutenant 61 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 230i M-Sport Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: SF Bay iTrader: (0)	I'm not mechanically skilled enough to know why this is a cause for concern...could someone enlighten?
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08-22-2016, 06:57 PM	#8
greekcs Major 773 Rep 1,113 Posts Drives: 2020 M340i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (0)	R1234yf has approximately 8-10°C cooler compressor discharge temperature vs R134a As near drop-in, capacity and efficiency fall slightly short of R134a __________________ 2003 11/02 Steel Gray Metallic on Red M3 - SMGII - VF570 - SUPERSPRINT - KW - BBS - CSL ROOF SOLD 2015 09/14 Alpine White on Red 435i xDrive MPPK - Expensive black vinyl with special lettering. SOLD 2020 12/19 Mineral Gray Metallic on Black Vinyl interior M340i xDrive
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08-24-2016, 11:42 AM	#9
hollandog Major 448 Rep 1,056 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: nyc iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 BMW 340i [9.00]	So the new BMW AC will be cooler? I find BMW AC is very weak compared to the G37 I had, or other Japanese cars. __________________ 2016 340i \| Estoril Blue \| Coral Red \| M Sport
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08-24-2016, 12:47 PM	#11
CruzM3 Captain 284 Rep 703 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 "Velocity Edition" Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany iTrader: (0)	I've had the opposite experience as both the e46s I owned had pretty good A/C. Both the F30s in my garage seem to have good A/C but it hasn't been above 90 much where I am since I got them. My American cars on the other hand had so-so A/C. Whenever it was really hot out they couldn't keep up. __________________ 2018 M3 ZCP "Edition Velocity" 2018 X3 30i (wife’s) 2017 340i w/ MPPSK & Many M Performance Parts (sold) 2016 328i (sold)
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08-24-2016, 05:46 PM	#13
graphite Private 39 Rep 98 Posts Drives: '15 528xi Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	I've been incredibly impressed with the AC in my F30, but it is an ActiveHybrid which is a totally different setup than the gassers. It will practically form icicles in the cabin, even on 100+ degree days. I love it being able to run with the engine off and whatnot, and the fact that it routes refrigerant to the rear in between the battery cells for cooling is neat, but man, some of the best AC I've ever encountered. And I work at a car dealership with a lot of cars to compare to. __________________ 2015 BMW 528i xDrive (F10) \| Glacier Silver Metallic w/ Black Dakota + Tech Package (ZTP), Premium Package (ZPP), Driver Assist Package (ZDA), Heated Front Seats, Side and Top View Cameras
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