[335dJa]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I've been compiling a list of potential future classics to consider buying...

E46 M3 - maybe too common and will become a bit chavvy?
Z4M - not driven one, but it got mixed reviews at the time
E39 M5 - a true successor to the Lotus carlton, but perhaps a little too large and refined?
996 Carrera - relatively unloved, but that might change as always happens!
997 Carrera - a little too new and expensive just now

Requirements:A drivers car, so I'm thinking...

Manual box
Hydraulic power steering
Petrol and normally aspirated
The ability to turn off all driver aids
Straight line performance on a par with my current 335d
Ability to find a decent example at an ok price, that isn't likely to lose too much more, and maybe go up in price over the years

Any other suggestions?

My dad has an Alpina roadster s, based on the z4. A lovely car that is fairly rock bottom prices at the mo. A future classic in my opinion.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by 335dJa

My dad has an Alpina roadster s, based on the z4. A lovely car that is fairly rock bottom prices at the mo. A future classic in my opinion.

Yes they seemed a popular car. The Z4M coupe or roadster seemed to get ho-hum reviews, due to the hard ride and crude B-road dynamics.. how did the Alpina version compare?

[335dJa]

It is a little fidgety on poor roads(which we have plenty of round us) but my dad is 62 and loves it, owned it from new and refuses to sell it. Performance is very good, the engine just pulls harder and harder as the revs climb until it hits 170+ (which he assures me it reaches quite comfortably)

[Chris Peacock]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

So how old do you need to go to get something interesting?!

I have just bought a MY00 JDM Integra Type-Rx, absolute mint condition and the test drive gave a true driving experience...........so 14 years

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Chris Peacock

I have just bought a MY00 JDM Integra Type-Rx, absolute mint condition and the test drive gave a true driving experience...........so 14 years

I've got a few more things in mind and they're in that kind of age, give or take a few years- Elise, S2000, VX220, mx5 (but turbocharged), early boxsters... So I guess it's a similar mindset,

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

The ACS or Hartge ECU would take it to 360bhp, which would take in rather close to a 0-100 in 10 seconds, which in my head is the benchmark of a truly quick car. Even now there aren't too many cars which go below this mark...

Is 10 seconds a typo? 11?

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Is 10 seconds a typo? 11?

Nope. If Guy's car did 11.5 with a stock set up then dropping below 11s is highly likely. It's how close to 10 seconds it gets...

The performance figures being quoted with this ECU on a 535d, in either s or xdrive, were taking around 4-5 seconds off the 0-124mph times, so reasonable to consider that it may take a 1 second off the 0-100mph time?

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Nope. If Guy's car did 11.5 with a stock set up then dropping below 11s is highly likely. It's how close to 10 seconds it gets...

The performance figures being quoted with this ECU on a 535d, in either s or xdrive, were taking around 4-5 seconds off the 0-124mph times, so reasonable to consider that it may take a 1 second off the 0-100mph time?

OK, thought he said 11.77 seconds to 100.

And no I don't believe +50hp would take 4-5 seconds off 0-124mph times.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

OK, thought he said 11.77 seconds to 100.

And no I don't believe +50hp would take 4-5 seconds off 0-124mph times.

Ok I couldn't remember the exact time from the Vbox timings!...well then dropping below 11 would be a good result then, 10 is never going to happen.

I can't say I have any experience of 0-124 times myself! Did you not have that simulator program going... perhaps you can run it through that and see what it says?

What do you think the PPK did to your 0-100 time?

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Ok I couldn't remember the exact time from the Vbox timings!...well then dropping below 11 would be a good result then, 10 is never going to happen.

I can't say I have any experience of 0-124 times myself! Did you not have that simulator program going... perhaps you can run it through that and see what it says?

What do you think the PPK did to your 0-100 time?

I can run a simulation, however I need to plot the power curve....and I don't believe the Hartge one for 1 second. It shows engine power running out at 4400RPM. We all know the 335d engine is just getting into it's stride by that figure. It also shows that the engine pick up is better from idle. This comes down to (mainy) mechanical and physical turbo response. How does a map change that?

To me they have posted a fabricated plot, it just looks too neat.

If you can find a real power plot (from a user or such like) then I can input the figures.


EDIT: I think it will definitely go below 11 second, probably 1 - 1.2 second gain over standard, but not as low as 10.4 -10.5

[dopper99]

Anyone know the 0-100 on the new Alpina? That has the same sort of power increase as the Hartge kit.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Anyone know the 0-100 on the new Alpina? That has the same sort of power increase as the Hartge kit.

Good idea! I just looked... they quote 4.6 for the 0-100kph and 17.9 for the 0-200kph increments.

If anyone has a methodology or rationale to guesstimate the 0-160ph time from that then I'm all ears!

[Chris Peacock]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I've got a few more things in mind and they're in that kind of age, give or take a few years- Elise, S2000, VX220, mx5 (but turbocharged), early boxsters... So I guess it's a similar mindset,

Agreed, I have been looking at all of those options....I have had both a DC2 and a DC5 Integra in the past though and the draw for another one was too much, felt amazing on the test drive, can't wait.

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

That's the B3- I quoted the figures from Alpina on the D3

Arr, yes sorry you are correct! I only half read that article!!!!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Chris Peacock

Agreed, I have been looking at all of those options....I have had both a DC2 and a DC5 Integra in the past though and the draw for another one was too much, felt amazing on the test drive, can't wait.

Rightly or wrongly I have excluded any consideration of any FWD vehicles!

Maybe I should as I'm guessing that Civic type R and the like are a fair bit cheaper than any of these other classic RWD roadsters i'm looking at?

The issue is that the one time I've driven a FWD car on a track I was distinctly unimpressed... but then that was a Golf GTI, and more of an all-rounder than a focussed drivers car.

[Chris Peacock]

The Integra would blow your socks off on track, you wouldn't believe its a fwd as you can balance it on the throttle through bends and easily get oversteer. They regularly out perform much higher powered RWD cars on track as you can use all of the available power.

It can only be compared to the original EK9 Civic Type-R, the EP3 car which went mass production for the Uk market is very average by comparison.

Worth a drive if you gave never experienced one.

[335dJa]

Originally Posted by Chris Peacock

The Integra would blow your socks off on track, you wouldn't believe its a fwd as you can balance it on the throttle through bends and easily get oversteer. They regularly out perform much higher powered RWD cars on track as you can use all of the available power.

It can only be compared to the original EK9 Civic Type-R, the EP3 car which went mass production for the Uk market is very average by comparison.

Worth a drive if you gave never experienced one.

I was lucky enough to get a run in a brand new integra when they first came out, if you chucked it into a lift off oversteer slide, you could hold the slide for at least 30-40 yards. Best fwd I've ever driven, more satisfying than quite a few of the rwd.

[Dave_3]

Lotus Carlton :

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=29669

D.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

Lotus Carlton :

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=29669

D.

Great article!

That road is truly one of the best roads I've ever driven too. I did it in an E90 330d on the way to Nice for a holiday- would really like to do it again in the Z4, as it's a road really perfect for a petrol convertible!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I can run a simulation, however I need to plot the power curve....and I don't believe the Hartge one for 1 second. It shows engine power running out at 4400RPM. We all know the 335d engine is just getting into it's stride by that figure. It also shows that the engine pick up is better from idle. This comes down to (mainy) mechanical and physical turbo response. How does a map change that?

To me they have posted a fabricated plot, it just looks too neat.

If you can find a real power plot (from a user or such like) then I can input the figures.


EDIT: I think it will definitely go below 11 second, probably 1 - 1.2 second gain over standard, but not as low as 10.4 -10.5

Holy thread resurrection!

I was able to give the the 0-100 a go the other day. No launch control, just gearbox to the left and Sport+ mode, brakes held on right foot and then move to WOT...

11.3

Might get to 11 with a couple of practices and holding the brake with left foot and building up the throttle. Or using launch!

[Cootie]

I suspect you'd be able to get it to duck below 11 with practice. As a general rule of thumb I tend to think you need 250bhp/ton to manage 10 secs 0-100.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Cootie

I suspect you'd be able to get it to duck below 11 with practice. As a general rule of thumb I tend to think you need 250bhp/ton to manage 10 secs 0-100.

Sounds reasonable... So if DMS are to be believed and i have 370ish bhp then I've got about 220 per tonne.

I do think 11 or thereabouts is achievable with a bit more brutality than I'm prepared to give a car.