[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Fuller

So, it has nothing to do with ego, and everything to do with giving my car what I know to be good service.

And that's why you never see threads complaining about dealership service departments.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by kern417

Nope, you're not understanding what I said. Saying that you should pay extra for the same service just because your car costs a certain amount is egotistic behavior. I can understand going to the dealer for a lot of things like changing your battery, diagnosing electrical issues, etc. But if all you're doing is getting a wheel alignment, mounting new tires, or some other task that has a universal process, paying double to have it done at the dealer is a waste of money. They use the same equipment and run the same risks as independent shops.

It's normal (not egotistical) to treat nice things differently than the run of the mill, even if it costs more or isn't as convenient. If I have real silverware, or fine cutlery inherited by my great aunt, I don't just mindlessly load it into the dishwater and fuck it up right...

You don't drown a fine steak in ketchup do you? No, It's not a matter of being too good for ketchup, but it doesn't belong on a filet or prime rib. I love it on other things.

Do you drink fine wine or champagne from a plastic cup? No probably not.

Would you toss a wool suit into the washing machine with some tide detergent? I hope not, the results wouldn't be pretty.

None of the above examples have anything to do with ego. It's merely about taking care of your nice things. It's the same with a luxury/performance car. I bring it to the service center that I think will do well fixing and maintaining it based on past experience. I also pay more at the pump because I fill it with 93 octane. I've noticed a difference in performance with it. I don't mind paying slightly more because I want to enjoy my car to its potential. Otherwise I could have saved much more by buying a cheaper car.

Arguing about whether the dealer is better, or a local garage is another discussion, and a futile one at that. Fact is, in my particular case, it makes sense to me to bring my car to the dealer. They know me there, it's comfortable, I get a nice loaner if the work requires a full day, among other conveniences. So far they've done good work, or at least haven't fucked anything up. For these reasons Im willing to bring my car into the dealer, even if it costs a little more. It's peace of mind. This is to say nothing of the fact that the bmw is still under warranty.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Fuller

It's normal (not egotistical) to treat nice things differently than the run of the mill, even if it costs more or isn't as convenient. If I have real silverware, or fine cutlery inherited by my great aunt, I don't just mindlessly load it into the dishwater and fuck it up right...

You don't drown a fine steak in ketchup do you? No, It's not a matter of being too good for ketchup, but it doesn't belong on a filet or prime rib. I love it on other things.

Do you drink fine wine or champagne from a plastic cup? No probably not.

Would you toss a wool suit into the washing machine with some tide detergent? I hope not, the results wouldn't be pretty.

None of the above examples have anything to do with ego. It's merely about taking care of your nice things. It's the same with a luxury/performance car. I bring it to the service center that I think will do well fixing and maintaining it based on past experience. I also pay more at the pump because I fill it with 93 octane. I've noticed a difference in performance with it. I don't mind paying slightly more because I want to enjoy my car to its potential. Otherwise I could have saved much more by buying a cheaper car.

Arguing about whether the dealer is better, or a local garage is another discussion, and a futile one at that. Fact is, in my particular case, it makes sense to me to bring my car to the dealer. They know me there, it's comfortable, I get a nice loaner if the work requires a full day, among other conveniences. So far they've done good work, or at least haven't fucked anything up. For these reasons Im willing to bring my car into the dealer, even if it costs a little more. It's peace of mind. This is to say nothing of the fact that the bmw is still under warranty.

Nope, you still don't get it. There is a difference in paying more for nicer things, and paying more for the same product. You pay more for 93 over 87, but if you go into the city to buy the same gas for 50 cents more when gas in the suburbs is the same just because of the perception that you're paying more for gas in the city because it's nicer...you're wasting money. Or paying dealership markups on OEM parts instead of buying direct from the supplier is wasting money. So you could have the exact same service done by the exact same person at the exact same rate and it'll still be more expensive at the dealer. Just because they markup the price for the exact same part.

And like I said, i took my car to the dealer because the coolant was free and I want them to have a record of my visit so if (when) i need warranty work done to fix my coolant levels dropping, they can see that i've visited for the same issue before. But things like an alignment, tires, etc. aren't covered under warranty. You won't get your warranty voided by getting an alignment at an independent shop.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by kern417

Nope, you still don't get it. There is a difference in paying more for nicer things, and paying more for the same product. You pay more for 93 over 87, but if you go into the city to buy the same gas for 50 cents more when gas in the suburbs is the same just because of the perception that you're paying more for gas in the city because it's nicer...you're wasting money. Or paying dealership markups on OEM parts instead of buying direct from the supplier is wasting money. So you could have the exact same service done by the exact same person at the exact same rate and it'll still be more expensive at the dealer. Just because they markup the price for the exact same part.

And like I said, i took my car to the dealer because the coolant was free and I want them to have a record of my visit so if (when) i need warranty work done to fix my coolant levels dropping, they can see that i've visited for the same issue before. But things like an alignment, tires, etc. aren't covered under warranty. You won't get your warranty voided by getting an alignment at an independent shop.

Let's back up. What I disagreed with, was your implying that ego played a role in paying more for service on a premium marque car. The examples you listed above still don't suggest egocentric behavior. If I'm paying more for the same service, then that's an example of a poor financial decision born of ignorance, carelessness, or perhaps laziness (assuming the only value-add I get from the dealer is convenience). It's a stretch to assume that ego is involved somehow because there's no pride or sense of self affirmation in spending too much for a service or product. In fact, it's more likely to result in feelings of shame and embarrassment for many people. This is detrimental to the ego.

If you enjoy insulting people online, at least get it right.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Fuller

Let's back up. What I disagreed with, was your implying that ego played a role in paying more for service on a premium marque car. The examples you listed above still don't suggest egocentric behavior. If I'm paying more for the same service, then that's an example of a poor financial decision born of ignorance, carelessness, or perhaps laziness (assuming the only value-add I get from the dealer is convenience). It's a stretch to assume that ego is involved somehow because there's no pride or sense of self affirmation in spending too much for a service or product. In fact, it's more likely to result in feelings of shame and embarrassment for many people. This is detrimental to the ego.

If you enjoy insulting people online, at least get it right.

What I disagree with was your statement:

Originally Posted by Fuller

All of us who drive bmws, and other premium marques, basically pissed away more money than necessary on cars, to varying degrees. Most of us paid more for the performance and refinement bmws have to offer. Why then bring it into the lowest bidder for service, and risk compromising the performance of your car?

This implies that, in your mind, since you spend a certain amount on a car then you should spend more on the same service due to additional risk of "compromising the performance" when taking it to an independent shop. You even went on to say that taking it to an independent shop is a viable option, but you still would take your car to the dealer. Call it whatever you want, but it's a waste of money. So yes your choice is fueled also by ignorance, carelessness, and laziness, but ego plays a factor if you make this decision based on the price of your car.

Let me throw this out there. The same car with be worth 1/2 as much when the warranty period is over. Nothing different besides the miles on the car. Does that make it ok to bring it to a regular tire shop at that point? As a matter of fact, what's the threshold for when you don't need to bring your F30 to the dealer anymore? If I bought a base 220i and didn't piss away extra money for a performance model, do I still need to bring it to the dealer?

[Tribalpinoy911]

What I've gathered on the forum and from my trusted mech who does alignments, its best to take it to the dealer. They have special tools that regular joes do not. Not to mention re calibrating the steering wheel if need be, thrown in active suspension if you have it and things become a little more complicated. In the bentley manual it explicitly states to have it done at the dealer, there are specific weighting methods used in-car to get a proper alignment.

My buddy gets his alignment done at a local shop and each time he complains that his tires wear oddly and he continues to wonder why.


Take it to your dealer. Save money in the long run on tires. Spend the extra $50 for a proper job, after all you bought a bmw. Is the marginal price difference really gonna kill your wallet? If it does then you probably shouldn't own one in the first place.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by kern417

What I disagree with was your statement:

This implies that, in your mind, since you spend a certain amount on a car then you should spend more on the same service due to additional risk of "compromising the performance" when taking it to an independent shop. You even went on to say that taking it to an independent shop is a viable option, but you still would take your car to the dealer. Call it whatever you want, but it's a waste of money. So yes your choice is fueled also by ignorance, carelessness, and laziness, but ego plays a factor if you make this decision based on the price of your car.

Let me throw this out there. The same car with be worth 1/2 as much when the warranty period is over. Nothing different besides the miles on the car. Does that make it ok to bring it to a regular tire shop at that point? As a matter of fact, what's the threshold for when you don't need to bring your F30 to the dealer anymore? If I bought a base 220i and didn't piss away extra money for a performance model, do I still need to bring it to the dealer?

No, if you read the state,ent of mine you quoted, I clearly said, I paid more for my car because of its "performance and refinement". I then followed by saying that I feel more comfortable taking it to the dealer, even if it costs more, because (in my mind at least) there's less risk that they'll do something that compromises the performance of my car.

It's clear from my post that I'm willing to pay the expected cost of maintenance at the dealer because imo, there's less risk that they'll ruin the way it performs. At no point did I say that I'm ok paying more solely because the car cost more. That would be ridiculous and irrational.

I might EXPECT to pay more for luxury/performance car maintenance because that's the nature of the beast, and nearly everyone here likely knew that going in.

I might also be ok with paying more to have work done at the dealer if I feel that there's less risk they'll screw something up and change the way my car drives. Yes, I paid more for a bmw because I enjoyed the way it drives, and I don't want to risk messing it up, EVEN if I have to pay a little more for that peace of mind. I'm willing to pay more for peace of mind, not ego.

If you want to argue with my opinion that the dealer offers something that an independent shop wouldn't, then please do make your assertion, but referring to it as ego driven doesn't make sense in light of what I posted.

[Sea-Tac]

Originally Posted by ghause

Hi All,
I'm new to bmw. I've been a vw/ag guy for 20 years. I just bought a cpo f36 and LOVE it.

I just got an email from a local dealer, not the one I got the car from. They were offering me $50 off an alignment to the tune of $200. This is more than the shop rate for an hours work - after discount.

I've driven GTIs for the last eight years. I realize work at the dealer is overpriced. Firestone will provide alignments for the length of your ownership of a vehicle for $200.

Is there anything about the f36 that would warrant more than an hour for an alignment? Are there some tools needed that you can only get from Rivendel?

Hey...Congrats...you'll love your car...good luck.

Alignments are fairly straight forward at a good dealer or a known BMW independent because they have the very specific tools and know how. As far as Firestone...I wouldn't trust them at all. If I recall correctly, on an earlier model E46 I had alignment was about 1hour 20 mins labor.

Stay with a good BMW indy or the BMW service center where you got your car. If your car is newly a CPO its been gone thru carefully by the service center. Road tests are done and if there was a problem with the alignment it would have been corrected. If you are having problems with it...bring it back, they will take care of it.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Tribalpinoy911

What I've gathered on the forum and from my trusted mech who does alignments, its best to take it to the dealer. They have special tools that regular joes do not. Not to mention re calibrating the steering wheel if need be, thrown in active suspension if you have it and things become a little more complicated. In the bentley manual it explicitly states to have it done at the dealer, there are specific weighting methods used in-car to get a proper alignment.

My buddy gets his alignment done at a local shop and each time he complains that his tires wear oddly and he continues to wonder why.


Take it to your dealer. Save money in the long run on tires. Spend the extra $50 for a proper job, after all you bought a bmw. Is the marginal price difference really gonna kill your wallet? If it does then you probably shouldn't own one in the first place.

I thought that this might be the case, but I wasn't certain. More than one individual has told stories of taking their cars to a small shop for an alignment and leaving with it not feeling right. No thanks.

I had the dealer align my car once, and it was after I had hit a large pothole. I had brought the car there to change the damaged tire (had tire and wheel coverage) and inspect the car for additional damage that might have resulted from the pothole. After everything was done, my SA said that they'd perform an alignment for $150 or something like that. I agreed it was a good idea, and told them to go ahead with it.

I figured it could use an alignment after hitting a damaging pothole, and I was already there for warranty work, so might as well have them do it. It's better than having to run around booking an appointment with an independent shop and making a separate trip to potentially save $50. Time is money, so sometimes it makes sense (and dollars) to just get everything done at one place.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Fuller

No, if you read the state,ent of mine you quoted, I clearly said, I paid more for my car because of its "performance and refinement". I then followed by saying that I feel more comfortable taking it to the dealer, even if it costs more, because (in my mind at least) there's less risk that they'll do something that compromises the performance of my car.

It's clear from my post that I'm willing to pay the expected cost of maintenance at the dealer because imo, there's less risk that they'll ruin the way it performs. At no point did I say that I'm ok paying more solely because the car cost more. That would be ridiculous and irrational.

I might EXPECT to pay more for luxury/performance car maintenance because that's the nature of the beast, and nearly everyone here likely knew that going in.

I might also be ok with paying more to have work done at the dealer if I feel that there's less risk they'll screw something up and change the way my car drives. Yes, I paid more for a bmw because I enjoyed the way it drives, and I don't want to risk messing it up, EVEN if I have to pay a little more for that peace of mind. I'm willing to pay more for peace of mind, not ego.

If you want to argue with my opinion that the dealer offers something that an independent shop wouldn't, then please do make your assertion, but referring to it as ego driven doesn't make sense in light of what I posted.

I see you back pedaling now, so i'll say good luck. I'm sure the dealership loves you.

Here's a bonus question to think about. Are you sure you needed that alignment because you hit a pothole? What were your before and after specs? because FYI, if you were green before and after then you literally paid $150 for nothing, and skipping it would have saved you even more time an money. But that goes back to the answer to the OP's original question. Just because they offer you something, discounted or not, does not mean you need it.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by kern417

I see you back pedaling now, so i'll say good luck. I'm sure the dealership loves you.

Here's a bonus question to think about. Are you sure you needed that alignment because you hit a pothole? What were your before and after specs? because FYI, if you were green before and after then you literally paid $150 for nothing, and skipping it would have saved you even more time an money. But that goes back to the answer to the OP's original question. Just because they offer you something, discounted or not, does not mean you need it.

I wasn't back pedaling, I was simply explaining to you, in steps, what I had meant in the post you had misinterpreted. It's all there for anyone to read, and the majority of members will understand it the first time.

I'll humor your "bonus question".... Judging by the fact that the pothole had ruptured my tire, I figured it can't hurt to have an alignment done. It's not a regular expense. It's not as if I'm paying $150 every week, or even every month to have an alignment done. I've only done it once after hitting a particularly bad pothole and won't likely do it again for some time. Yes, that $150 expense was worth it for peace of mind that my car was running as well as it can.

I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to grasp this. You're either trolling, are deficient in basic reading comprehension skills, or you do understand my point but are driven by "ego" to continue arguing anyway.