[Larry77]

i talked to MusicarNW yesterday, we scheduled an install. I'm going to send the Bavsound's back and we are going to add an amp to power the original H/K's and an added JL sub. Unfortunately I can't use their prefab enclosure location because of an extra little battery I have on top of my starter battery (I hadn't even pulled that panel off before so I didn't realize).

They will use a Technic harness and code the car to HiFi so it works. They will design a floating box behind the seat that will be easily disconnected if the space is needed. A JL processor and an Arc amp will be used and mounted in the driver's side cubby.

This is going to be the first time since I was 16 that my system was installed by someone else, but they certainly know their stuff. I'll do a quick write up after it's done as there isn't much out there on how to add an amp to stock H/K speakers.

At some point I'm sure I'll upgrade to the Morel Hybrid's and the Jehnert's under the seats but MusicarNW think's I'll be surprised about how good the stock speakers will sound. (saving a little money initially)

[Fade_The_Public]

Originally Posted by Larry77

So your stance is that these companies are creating speakers that are not superior to the stock speakers and are ripping all of us off by telling us a line of BS and our ears are hearing it because we want them to? You yourself do not have any actual objective data to prove your own point because you haven't even tested the aftermarket options yourself, interestin

Lol...yeah man. That's how BillFitz rolls.
I brought this exact point up in 2020 without ever reading this post.
His explanation is mind-numbingly incorrect for a "professional sound engineer"

[penfold2105]

Sorry for bringing this up now. But I'm really not impressed with the amount of bass I get on my HK system (S688 Harman/Kardon Surround Sound System). I had an e90 before and the guy before me upgraded the idrive to a cic. I'm guessing he put some really good speakers in there as the overall output was no way as loud as it is right now but the bass was far superior and it stayed separate from the treble. so you got really good sound. Is there anyway to do something to replicate this sound please help. if I had known they were not stock i would have taken them out before letting the car leave my hands especially after hearing the f32 sound which is supposed to be the best spec.

PS I'm in the UK so I can't get bav sound here.

[Billfitz]

It's not just the speakers, it's also the amplification. Bav is nothing special, just another Chinese import with over the top marketing. This thread should help: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730058

[penfold2105]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It's not just the speakers, it's also the amplification. Bav is nothing special, just another Chinese import with over the top marketing. This thread should help: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730058

Thanks

[TurboWeasel]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It's not just the speakers, it's also the amplification. Bav is nothing special, just another Chinese import with over the top marketing. This thread should help: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730058

A Google search led me here, and I'm glad it did as you've both confirmed a suspicion of mine, and saved me a lot of money

In your opinion, are there ANY aftermarket woofer options worth pursuing in order to boost the 30-40hz region, within an otherwise factory HK setup?

I suspect the answer is no, but it's worth asking in case any miracles have hit the market since these threads were started. I'm more a depth fan than tight punch, so it's probably going to end up needing bigger drivers and amps in the trunk.

One thing I find slightly curious is no one seems to address, arguably the key ingredient in any Hi-Fi setup, the source. i.e. is it worth throwing expensive amps and speakers at the 'problem' if HK's default sound profile is not to peoples' liking? Changing the drive units or amp could potentially make it sounds worse without some kind of parametric EQ to harmonise the new components to the cabin acoustics.

Anyway, I don't mind the HK profile personally. It's just a bit weak below 50Hz, but I'll carry on quietly researching options.

[Billfitz]

It's no. Rule #1 of Loudspeaker Design: There's no such thing as a free lunch. It's closely related to Hoffman's Iron Law (google it). If you're going to go lower the trade off is sensitivity, so you either need more power or you need the ability to separately adjust the woofer volume so it will be loud enough. You can't do that with the stock amp. A woofer that actually goes lower than stock and 99% of the aftermarket options is the SWS Earthquake. It has to be separately amplified to use it with the H-K system. Here's how:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730058

[J555]

Originally Posted by TurboWeasel

Anyway, I don't mind the HK profile personally. It's just a bit weak below 50Hz, but I'll carry on quietly researching options.

One often missed "secret" are the filters (low/high pass) and power per channel of your HK amp. The stock settings are limiting the low frequencies and power, possibly to protect the stock woofers. While you can't set the values directly, you can at least very significantly change it by coding. There is quite a few options, you can find it here via search (as audio system variant, eq variant, BundW high end, etc.). Either esys or ProTool are required to be able to code all (other tools as Bimmercode are missing some of them).

A word of warning - while you can't harm your HK amp by coding of different combinations, you certainly can blow your stock speakers at higher volumes, as they are cheap crap not built to withstand the full power of the amp.

[howe9191]

Is the stock Hifi sub and direct swap with Harman Sub? I mean on the socket and compartment wise?

I have change the Hifi amp to harman amplifier now planning to change the subwoofer from Hifi to Harman sub.

[Billfitz]

They're a direct swap. That's why the HK woofer is 8 ohms. The wiring won't handle the current from the HK amp if used with 4 ohm woofers.

[J555]

Originally Posted by howe9191

I have change the Hifi amp to harman amplifier now planning to change the subwoofer from Hifi to Harman sub.

I would recommend to skip this step and go straight for the aftermarket ones. Dyor, but at least Audison 4-ohm and Jehnert 6-ohm woofers are both direct swap and confirmed by many to work flawlessly. The SQ will be much better, as well as the powering thanks to 4-/6-ohm impedance instead of 8-ohm.

[Styx]

Originally Posted by penfold2105

Sorry for bringing this up now. But I'm really not impressed with the amount of bass I get on my HK system (S688 Harman/Kardon Surround Sound System). I had an e90 before and the guy before me upgraded the idrive to a cic. I'm guessing he put some really good speakers in there as the overall output was no way as loud as it is right now but the bass was far superior and it stayed separate from the treble. so you got really good sound. Is there anyway to do something to replicate this sound please help. if I had known they were not stock i would have taken them out before letting the car leave my hands especially after hearing the f32 sound which is supposed to be the best spec.

PS I'm in the UK so I can't get bav sound here.

Here’s my two cents. If you want big sound and low frequencies you have to add a sub with a well designed enclosure. Any speaker you put in the stock location under the seats will give you marginal gains at best regardless of the speaker/amp selection. And you can keep a use-able amount of your trunk space while adding significant sound.

[Billfitz]

Not all of us want to give away our trunk space. The SWS Earthquake with adequate amplification gives considerable gains. It's not only confirmed by those who've installed them but also by the science, which is never wrong, whether you understand it or not. For example:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730058

[Styx]

“Considerable” and “significant” are both subjective. And just because you don’t agree with my subjective statement doesn’t mean that I don’t understand the science.

[Billfitz]

There's nothing subjective about this:

[Styx]

I’m not going to argue with you because you obviously know everything and get your rocks off by “winning” online debates. My post was for the OP and the point was I’ve seen lots of posts of people replacing the underseat subs and amp only to not be satisfied with the sound and end up putting a sub in the trunk. If you know you want big sound and you’re willing to sacrifice some trunk space, save yourself the money and skip replacing the stock woofers and amp.

[Jaya3666]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Send me some and I'll not only listen to them but also fully test them, and post the results. I won't even charge my standard consulting fee of $150 per hour.

I was bored today, so I pulled and tested my hi-fi woofers. They're not the least bit deficient, very well suited for the available space. Whoever it is who spec'd these knows what he's doing.
Fs 51 Hz
Qes 1.00
Qms 3.02
Qts 0.75
Vas 18.4L
Re 2.4 Ohms
Le 0.22 mH
Sd 200 sq cm
Sensitivity 86dB/w (1.5v)

I also tested them in the car, which gave a Qtc of 1.0. That extrapolates to a enclosure volume of 0.6 cu ft. Now anyone who knows how to use WinISD or Bass Box Pro or any of the other various speaker modeling software programs can see what the stock woofers are capable of. Don't forget to account for cabin gain.

Good info! So the HiFi F30 underseat stock woofers are 2 ohms? My mid range speakers are 4 ohms.

[Billfitz]

They're nominally 4 ohms. The 2.4 ohm Re is the DC resistance of the coil, not the impedance.