[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by bad karma

Oh please, that's total bullshit. There are a handful of threads on this forum about engine trouble around that mileage, which should absolutely NOT be taken as a sign that there is a major issue with the N20, which is, in general, a very reliable motor.

Forums are very prone to this sort of confirmation bias. People post on forums to get help with things when they break, and if you were to base your purchase of any vehicle off the posts on their respective forums, literally every car out there would seem like a ticking time bomb of unreliability just waiting to go off in your wallet.

Also, you call the N20 "really prone" to failure but then go on to recommend the 2007-2010 N54 to the OP? We are talking about the same N54, right? The one that (at least during 2007-2008, possibly well beyond) had well documented (by BMW, not by forums) issues with failing turbo wastegates and HPFPs? The N54 where both the turbo and HPFP warranties were factory extended to 8/82k and 10/120k, respectively, because of how unreliable they were? Those N54s?

Dont get trolled by that kid man.

[SoDiezl350]

Originally Posted by GarlicBread

It's not about what's better speed wise. My opinion a 4 cylinder will have to work harder to get to 60 than a 6 cylinder. Over time that adds up. Just my opinion.

Which is why BMWs V12, V10, and even V8 motors are such stalwarts of reliability...

[GarlicBread]

Originally Posted by SoDiezl350

Which is why BMWs V12, V10, and even V8 motors are such stalwarts of reliability...

Those engines are more complex for performance purposes. Don't need to debate this I'm not trashing a 4 cylinder if it works for you more power to you

[AGONXF30]

How many of you here have training in engine design or development or work in the industry? A lot of claims here that are not valid.

[CalCarNut]

60K for a 2013 is a LOT..so someone enjoyed it. I'd still stick with CPO vehicles for at least a short period peace of mind...

[jeffilano]

I have purchased a 2013 CPO ActiveHybrid 3. Just very thankful that it comes with factory warranty. It has saved me thousands on those before 40K mile repairs. Make sure you have the same with your purchase.

[sandlion]

please fools, get an n20 and put the hammer down

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

I probably shouldnt have recommended the N54, but the N52/N55 are easily longer lasting then the N20.

the reason why i mentioned the N54 isnt because its necessarily an "unreliable" motor. it requires tons of maintenance, but the motor itself will last a long time, much longer then the N20 if you perform said maintenance.

the n20 came out in 2012 and some engine failure threads are already surfacing here. the n52 came out in 2006 and whatever problems people complain about with the naturally aspirated counterpart still arent TOTAL engine failure, just problems. in fact, its very likely for the N52 to get to 400k KM and be still running, which has been documented over at e90post.

even if the N20 is, in fact a reliable motor (i still have my doubts, I want to see examples of one running at 200k properly) there are many, many other reasons why I would never purchase a BMW equipped with a 2L 4 cylinder.

in fact, the N52 for the most part keeps up with its newer brother no problem (its on youtube) and is 1-2MPG less efficient in the real world WHEN EQUIPPED WITH THE SAME TRANSMISSION. to everyone bleating how their f30 was much more reliable then the e90, no. 90% of the efficiency increase you are seeing is due to the 8 speed vs older 6 speed, and not the engine itself. in fact, since turbo engines run rich at high RPM, you will get worse fuel economy in the real world. if you take 10 random turbo engines off the street, and then compare fuel economy to 10 random naturally aspirated engines, the turbo engine will be getting piss awful fuel economy because nobody knows how to drive a turbo engine in the meaty torque band - they just rip it in the lower gears instead which isn't what a turbo is about. the naturally aspirated 6 has better throttle response down low, sounds better, is more linear throughout the rev range, actually pulls to redline, and has been PROVEN to be much more reliable then the N20.

why the turbo 4?

look at this video. the f10 is over 400 pounds heavier then the f30. if weight was comparable, the little turbo 4 would have been smoked.

Yup dead reliable until you are forced to fork up 5k for new turbos becase they are insanely known for waste gate rattles and a fix is new $5,000 pair of snails. And the N52 has valvetrain tick that requires a new revised head, oh and dont forget failing transfer cases on x drive models.

My wife and I have had a Bmw from the last 10 years generation and by far the most reliable ones we have owned is her current N20 228i and my 2nd F30 N55. Id take an N20 over any of those older money pits. N20 had a bad year in 2013 and it received many revised parts including timing chain and new oil intervals. N55 have proven to be rock solid and probably one of the safest BMW motor choices of today's offerings.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

How many of you here have training in engine design or development or work in the industry? A lot of claims here that are not valid.

I work for Ford motor company Vehicle Operations and final assembly what do you need to know?

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by GarlicBread

Those engines are more complex for performance purposes. Don't need to debate this I'm not trashing a 4 cylinder if it works for you more power to you

GTFO the 4.4L M62 and N63 possibly the worst BMW engines of all time reliability wise due to poor design and they were used across the board in 5/6/7/x series vehicles and you wanna talk about complex and performance. 340hp 550i gimme a break .
Who puts a coolant line in the middle of a block with sub par seals that need to be changed at 40k mi intervals because they fail and you end up leaking coolant in the block. $4500 repair for 2 $5 dollar o rings. The only way to remove plumbing pipe is to take the motor out and remove timing cover.

N20 and N55 are by far more technologically advanced than M62 and by far more reliable.

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by Dejan_

I work for Ford motor company Vehicle Operations and final assembly what do you need to know?

Other folks around here making claims with zero credibility. I am trained Engineer, and a mechanic so the claims here are fucking insane. Like one engine having to work harder than another because number of pistons etc.

[tgmsocal]

So guys, is a used F30 worth it? Holy thread jack, batman.

[n55x3]

I think it's a great value to buy a lightly used 2013ish F30.

I'd try to go for the N55 vehicles as that's proven to be extremely reliable, even compared to the N20. I think both are fun motors tho.

I just sold a loaded 26k miles 2013 335i MSport RWD 8 spd for $29k. I tried as hard as I could to talk friends and family into that car because it's a steal for under $30k IMHO.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that CPO cars are the cream of the crop, that's far from the truth based on what I've seen. I've read an equal amount of issues with CPO cars as non CPO cars. The CPO entrance criteria is pretty loose at best. Even with CPO badge I'd still look at accident history, maintenance records, # of owners etc...

You could always look into a 3rd party warranty. Fidelity Platinum warranty is pretty popular choice, at least with the Pcar crowd.

[GarlicBread]

As it currently stands my point is I would lean towards the n55 over the n20 for reliability. I'm looking at just these engines.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Dejan_

Yup dead reliable until you are forced to fork up 5k for new turbos becase they are insanely known for waste gate rattles and a fix is new $5,000 pair of snails. And the N52 has valvetrain tick that requires a new revised head, oh and dont forget failing transfer cases on x drive models.

My wife and I have had a Bmw from the last 10 years generation and by far the most reliable ones we have owned is her current N20 228i and my 2nd F30 N55. Id take an N20 over any of those older money pits. N20 had a bad year in 2013 and it received many revised parts including timing chain and new oil intervals. N55 have proven to be rock solid and probably one of the safest BMW motor choices of today's offerings.

the valvetrain tick has been proven not to cause any long term damage..

as for the transfer case issues.. dont buy that nonsense Xdrive and you wont have that problem.

until I see an N20 outlast the N52, im not convinced.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

the valvetrain tick has been proven not to cause any long term damage..

as for the transfer case issues.. dont buy that nonsense Xdrive and you wont have that problem.

until I see an N20 outlast the N52, im not convinced.

Crap tell that to the 93% majority of x drive customers that refuse to get anything but. Makes no difference to me my wife and I are both RWD (correct wheel drive ) owners besides her one 328xi :. So that's why these issues will continue to be prevalent and heard due to high number of x drives.

N20 outlasting n52, only time will tell how the post 2013 cars will do with revised parts but BMW quickly did away with it so on to the b48...

And you can't even ever bring up N54 anywhere near reliability conversation regardless of how good the rotating assembly is and reliable when everything bolted up to it and surrounds it is committing financial suicide owning one today.

[tgmsocal]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

60K for a 2013 is a LOT..so someone enjoyed it. I'd still stick with CPO vehicles for at least a short period peace of mind...

While I agree that 60k is a lot on a 2013, this may be due to a long highway commute which, along with proper maintenance, may be an easy way of saving a lot of $$ on a car that is in solid shape. I'd prefer this to ultra low miles, meaning lots of short commutes and lots of sitting. In fact, I bought my CPO with 50k on the clock and it's been solid as a rock for a year now.

I also agree that CPO does not equal perfect, and you should do your due diligence in evaluating ANY vehicle before purchase.

-tgm

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by tgmsocal

While I agree that 60k is a lot on a 2013, this may be due to a long highway commute which, along with proper maintenance, may be an easy way of saving a lot of $$ on a car that is in solid shape. I'd prefer this to ultra low miles, meaning lots of short commutes and lots of sitting. In fact, I bought my CPO with 50k on the clock and it's been solid as a rock for a year now.

I also agree that CPO does not equal perfect, and you should do your due diligence in evaluating ANY vehicle before purchase.

-tgm

I bought wife.com her 2012 CPO'd X3 just recently...57K miles. Looks immaculate...but 20K/yr is a LOT when you can find a CPO'd car for the same or less.

[tgmsocal]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

I bought wife.com her 2012 CPO'd X3 just recently...57K miles. Looks immaculate...but 20K/yr is a LOT when you can find a CPO'd car for the same or less.

We're on the same page, I was able to use the mileage to negotiate down quite a bit. Depends on the dealer, I'm sure. Just making the point that high mileage on it's own shouldn't deter unless you're dead set on finding a low mileage example. To each their own, on this one.

-tgm

[mdai245]

Do not get the 320i. Got it as a loaner a few times and it felt just like every other family sedan econobox and felt just as cheap interior-wise as your typical rental car with perhaps less standard features. Took the fun out of driving a BMW. If performance/price is a concern there are so many better options for the price of a 320i

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by tgmsocal

We're on the same page, I was able to use the mileage to negotiate down quite a bit. Depends on the dealer, I'm sure. Just making the point that high mileage on it's own shouldn't deter unless you're dead set on finding a low mileage example. To each their own, on this one.

-tgm

True. I've toyed with the idea of trading my GC in...and it's a perfect example. 2 yr old GC with 12k miles in immaculate condition and with at least 2yrs warranty and 36K miles to go. I'm guessing someone would buy it even though the numbers work out to 6k/yr and sitting a lot .

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

the valvetrain tick has been proven not to cause any long term damage..

as for the transfer case issues.. dont buy that nonsense Xdrive and you wont have that problem.

until I see an N20 outlast the N52, im not convinced.

I have both (sorta). Wife's X3 is powered by the N52 (supposedly bulletproof and non-turbo) vs my N26. Time will tell.