[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by larven

I don't think the 340i will slaughter a 335d unless you remap it to M3 levels of power.

I agree it might have the edge over 100mph or even 125mph so it would have the advantage on the track but let's be honest, you can hardly slip a rizla paper between the performance of the two.

Yes and no. On one hand you have the xDrives secret weapon being the Launch Control. This is what the headline 335d figures include. Take this out of the equation, more typically in everyday driving and the 340i will be a convincingly quicker car in every aspect. However, on a drag strip using LC, then the 335d has a fantastic trick up it's sleeve, that takes a 340i a little bit of distance to catch up. This is of course depicting the theoretical no reaction time launch. In the real world, if the 340i gets a slight jump on the 335d, it will be all over much quicker than you think.

Put it this way, the 335i was a close match to a 335d......the 340i has moved things on, it needed an uprated gearbox which says something. So would have to be a tweaked 335d to even step up to the challenge IMO.

[ep22jg]

oooohhh we do love our cars .....!!!

Diesel is best you tart ..... No it's not petrol is best, you slag .....

Why do some of you get so attached/defensive about your 'choice'??

It's like the Apple/Android debacle!!!


For the record, I've had both diesel and petrol, enjoyed both and will probably have either again!!

[WeaverBeaver]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Take this out of the equation, more typically in everyday driving and the 340i will be a convincingly quicker car in every aspect.

Not every respect - I think in situations where you're in manual mode and maybe flooring it from ~20mph off a roundabout in 2nd or 3rd gear at low-mid revs I'd wager the 335d would pull on the 340 due to massive torque advantage until the 340 gets into upper echelons of its rev range. However, in kick-down this probably wouldn't apply. But the amount of time I spend driving in manual mode in the 335d and not spending the whole time red-lining it, this kind of instantaneous grunt is far more important to me in daily driving.

[Rukka]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

On one hand you have the xDrives secret weapon being the Launch Control. This is what the headline 335d figures include. Take this out of the equation, more typically in everyday driving and the 340i will be a convincingly quicker car in every aspect. However, on a drag strip using LC, then the 335d has a fantastic trick up it's sleeve, that takes a 340i a little bit of distance to catch up.

Pardon my ignorance but doesn't the 340i have launch control too? (assuming it's an automatic)

If it does then the launch control argument is moot I'm afraid

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by ep22jg

oooohhh we do love our cars .....!!!

Diesel is best you tart ..... No it's not petrol is best, you slag .....

Why do some of you get so attached/defensive about your 'choice'??

It's like the Apple/Android debacle!!!


For the record, I've had both diesel and petrol, enjoyed both and will probably have either again!!

Yes same here buddy, I've had both very recently and loved them all. I only ever jump to defence of a car on the forum if I think someone's blatantly 'calling it out' with misquoted facts or saying it shit when clearly its not. I guess sometimes its hard to tell if something is supposed to be tongue in cheek here....or if indeed it was actually meant as tongue in cheek.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by WeaverBeaver

Not every respect - I think in situations where you're in manual mode and maybe flooring it from ~20mph off a roundabout in 2nd or 3rd gear at low-mid revs I'd wager the 335d would pull on the 340 due to massive torque advantage until the 340 gets into upper echelons of its rev range. However, in kick-down this probably wouldn't apply. But the amount of time I spend driving in manual mode in the 335d and not spending the whole time red-lining it, this kind of instantaneous grunt is far more important to me in daily driving.

You sir are correct, you need to use the revs more on the Petrol, but I guess I was talking from a performance POV. Clearly the 340i won't be better in the fuel consumption area either.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Rukka

Pardon my ignorance but doesn't the 340i have launch control too? (assuming it's an automatic)

If it does then the launch control argument is moot I'm afraid

Agreed. Guessing Nisfan is referring to the X Drive element which is kinda separate.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Rukka

Pardon my ignorance but doesn't the 340i have launch control too? (assuming it's an automatic)

If it does then the launch control argument is moot I'm afraid

Yes it does, but all it offers over a standard foot of brake onto throttle plant type start is extra wheelspin. It is hardly if at all faster in LC mode. Big difference with an AWD car where LC uses not only engine power but also engine inertia to launch the car and can deploy that to the tarmac.

[Rukka]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Yes it does, but all it offers over a standard foot of brake onto throttle plant type start is extra wheelspin. It is hardly if at all faster in LC mode. Big difference with an AWD car where LC uses not only engine power but also engine inertia to launch the car and can deploy that to the tarmac.

Sorry, I've misread your post above which seemed to imply that the xdrives trick up it's sleeve was LC - when in fact it is the xdrive that is the advantage off the mark (when used in conjunction with LC)

I'll get me coat............

[225]

Its quite quite simple. BMW clearly but the biggest numbers on the fastest cars 340 beats 335 which beats 330 etc etc

Come (hopefully) March, will I care that a 335d is or isn't 0.3 sec faster than my car from a traffic light grand prix? Not a jot. (I'll be too busy filling it up yet again at the petrol station!)

[Yeatser]

Originally Posted by Penetrator

Impressive, where did you get it remapped??

Its an Ecotune map and very impressive too

[Yeatser]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Not being funny here.....I have a pretty good (pay for) bit of software that predicts car performance based on very comprehensive range of parameters, and I would have to enter well over 500hp /620ft.lb into it to get anything under 4 seconds 0-60 for a standard xDrive chassis. So unless that 3.6 involves a steep hill, I very much doubt it is real.

anyway, this is all a bit of fun....we aren't going to meet up and have it out on the race track.....we are after all a bunch of arm chair racers spouting 0-60 figures. I am picturing Jeremy Clarkson breaking into his anorak "Well my car......" voice.

I'I find a hill then get back to you with the time, does your pay for software tell you what gradient I'I need to get 3.6s

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by WeaverBeaver

Not every respect - I think in situations where you're in manual mode and maybe flooring it from ~20mph off a roundabout in 2nd or 3rd gear at low-mid revs I'd wager the 335d would pull on the 340 due to massive torque advantage until the 340 gets into upper echelons of its rev range. However, in kick-down this probably wouldn't apply. But the amount of time I spend driving in manual mode in the 335d and not spending the whole time red-lining it, this kind of instantaneous grunt is far more important to me in daily driving.

But do we drive a petrol the same as a diesel? I know exactly what you are saying regarding manual mode, but remember the 340i gearbox software (for auto mode) will be using the engine characteristics to still keep up the pace. Whereas the diesel may hold a higher gear, the petrol will be changing down to appropriate gears even without kick-down.

From my perspective, if a car (petrol or diesel) pulls 30 - 70mph in X seconds, doesn't matter which engine or characteristics, if traction is equal, we have the same performance. The gearbox sorts out the engine's power/torque capability. We as drivers have the choice of how power is delivered, petrol or diesel.

[Cootie]

My two penneth is that 0-60 is a fairly irrelevant measure of real world performance. Personally I look at 30-70, or 50-90 as they ultimately dictate the overtaking ability a car has, which is what I find meaningful.

Acceleration from a standing start can be massively skewed by the traction advantage inherent in either a 4wd or rear engined car. This advantage can mean that it takes a much more powerful car a lot of time to catch and then pass something that on paper shouldn't be able to hold a candle to it. Case in point was where a mate of mine in his 991 GT3 had a half mile drag race down a runway against a P1 - it took the P1 until not far shy of the the quarter mile point to overtake him, albeit at this point it's terminal velocity was about 15mph greater.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Lol fun thread

So in summary, Santa Pod is no good as it's unfair to 340i drivers being a high speed track that is not bone dry.

Bruntingthorpe Is the venue of choice, however there is a proviso that it must be a sunny dry day in order to give the 340i and other Sdrive car a fair chance.

This is based on the total lack of rain and wet roads we have in the UK, which is why people buy that perfect 340i, for those bone dry roads...

Also it appears that diesel drivers are a touchy lot, fair enough....

In that case, can the 320i cars please come along so we can all have a good fucking laugh at that high bhp 4 cyclinder speed machine, or was that sewing machine...

So anyone think what summer month will be best for the dry day of the year?

[KS_340i]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

But do we drive a petrol the same as a diesel? I know exactly what you are saying regarding manual mode, but remember the 340i gearbox software (for auto mode) will be using the engine characteristics to still keep up the pace. Whereas the diesel may hold a higher gear, the petrol will be changing down to appropriate gears even without kick-down.

It's a good point. No doubt the diesel may feel effortless (mine currently does) but I have seen some threads from owners where they feel less involved with their cars. I think effortless torque coupled with the good ZF box may have a lot to do with it. Comments such as "it doesn't feel fast" or "doesn't feel involved" are not unknown.

[snipnoob86]

its all bmws fault, for making 2 class leading cars in both fuel variants.

well done bmw!

also ill agree they dont feel fast, they just dont! well my 35d doesnt anyway, yeah it shifts. the cars in the rearview mirror become nothing other than specles in the distance very quickly. but it doesnt throw me into my seat, tear my face off, give me that gut wrenching roller coaster feeling. it just feels...... quick, ish. i think this has alot to do with how the power is being delivered. i dont ever feel a powerband like i did when the valves opened up on my xr2, i dont feel the turbos kicking in because they spool up from such a low rev range, theres nothing but a nice smooth linear delivery. which shoots engagmemt.

[SpaceHorsey]

Santa pod is no good for either really as it has 50yrs of rubber ground into the startline. A 4wd car would have less of an issue for obvious reasons. But an old runway with normal tarmac (asphalt if you're reading this in the US) would be ideal. Does anyone know if you can still get onto the runway up at Bovingdon on Sunday's? Bovingdon market used to be up there on Saturdays but you used to be able to go round the back and get onto the old runway.

Santa Pod I'd never be up for because it's a day that could be spent with my family, but Bovingdon is just up the road. I'd be game for a laugh up there. Not really bothered about who wins but would be good fun.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by KS_340i

It's a good point. No doubt the diesel may feel effortless (mine currently does) but I have seen some threads from owners where they feel less involved with their cars. I think effortless torque coupled with the good ZF box may have a lot to do with it. Comments such as "it doesn't feel fast" or "doesn't feel involved" are not unknown.

I don't mind which power plant, I was driving high torque diesels (by comparison to petrol), before many on here were even tempted to look at diesel, and recommending users "try diesel" to get a feel for low down torque. Personally I don't see any issue with using revs in a decent petrol either.

What I notice in these threads many seem to have to justify their purchase, no need really, we all have superb cars/power plants to choose from.

I do sense many have xDrive because they can't get a 335d without. Drive diesel because they do have to control/monitor running costs, including mpg. But how many, without the constraints would opt for diesel? (Performance being equal). I wager many more users would pick the 340i RWD as the driver's car, rather than diesel and/or xDrive. Doesn't make the diesel or xDrive any less a car, but let's be honest, many hanker for a decent BMW I6 petrol.

BTW, the diesels are only desirable as 'performance' engines due to turbocharging, (I have driven many NA diesels ) so let's not forget the petrol turbos are now much more useable than the older NA I6 engines, so 'driveability' is less of a difference in day to day driving. The gap has closed both for driveability and mpg.

[Mattyk]

Can I point out something that should be obvious?

BMW has turned the 335i into the 340i which moves the petrol from parity/slightly behind the 335d to slightly in front until you get to speeds your never going to do.

When the 335d gets the same treatment, better gearbox and say the power that is available from a tweak will it not return to the top of the heap?

I can't see BMW continuing with a 335d when they binned the 335i

So, on one hand this is all irrelevant, when the like for like car is issued the crown returns to the diesel surely.

I would note it's interesting the effect xdrive has on top speed as demonstrated above

Lastly, it's all willy waving. The actual truth is, if we raced say 300 miles from a to b on a clear road the diesel will win. Why, the petrol will need to refuel, those few seconds will be minutes ������

Summary
Petrol sounds better.
It's better on twistys
It's probably better on the motorway as xdrive means shit shocks and body sway
But, if you actually drive your car rather than leave it on the driveway then fuel economy and torque make the d a better daily driver and mean in real world traffic light races you are starting from the better place with awd. The petrol can only win if your slow reacting?

Where's ntg when you need him to really stoke an arguement

[Dandanbmw]

This one thread has more conversation than a months worth on 6 post... They really aren't a chatty bunch like here. :-)

[Tengocity]

Forum's been buy going round in circles today and I missed all the fun! I've read 4 pages of argument and I've no real idea what anyone is actually arguing about!

I think it's that horrible part of the year where Xmas holidays is gone now, the days are still dark, and there's a while till there's anything to look forward to, so everyone is in a bad mood...

If it helps any I've got absolute, verified, indisputable data for how fast my car is:

0-100kph - 4.7 seconds (non launch control, measured using the M laptimer)
1/4 mile - 12.76 seconds @ 107.3 MPH (non launch control, measured at Santa Pod)

It is remapped but it is also a tourer, so not the lightest 3 series around!

Maybe if I used LC I'd knock a tiny little bit more off but hardly worth the wear and tear on the transmission.