[PrazVT]

Breaking in pretty much means the speaker drivers have some time soften up a little. Speaker drivers tend to be a little stiff at first. If the speaker drivers are decent, typically it is the amplifier that impacts sound quality the most. The better the amp (and I'm not talking about watts ... higher current is more important than higher watts), the better music will sound.

It looks like the HK system uses a Class D amp (like Pioneer Elite SC series A/V receivers, and they tend to be very efficient. So chances are it has a decent amount of headroom. I found the HK system to play clear when I turned the volume up - and the DSP seems to do a good job pulling out ambient sounds from tracks. More so than the previous Infinity system.

Whether or not I want to let the system mess w/ a stereo track is another question. But it sounds pretty good.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by PrazVT

Breaking in pretty much means the speaker drivers have some time soften up a little. Speaker drivers tend to be a little stiff at first. If the speaker drivers are decent, typically it is the amplifier that impacts sound quality the most. The better the amp (and I'm not talking about watts ... higher current is more important than higher watts), the better music will sound.

For those who want to take the time, I offer this link:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...act-or-fiction

Even with this type of real testing and experience, th topic will still be debated, much like the "break in" of a new car and it's engine.
There will always be those who "feel" it's needed, regardless of actual data or information. Kinda like those who "feel" better when they change their full synthetic oil at 3000 miles.

[a_k]

Originally Posted by clarence

Yes, for all systems from the EU/ROW base to hi-fi to HK, they all have one sub under each front seat. Again they're all shallow mount.
Not sure abt the size, but the SWS8 should be a direct swap (may need adaptor tho, like the E9x).

What is impedance of original woofers? I see that Earthquake has two versions.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by RPM90

For those who want to take the time, I offer this link:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...act-or-fiction

Even with this type of real testing and experience, th topic will still be debated, much like the "break in" of a new car and it's engine.
There will always be those who "feel" it's needed, regardless of actual data or information. Kinda like those who "feel" better when they change their full synthetic oil at 3000 miles.

I just lost the passenger side woofer in my 7 day old car. I had the same issue with the HK system in my 2006. THe floor mount woofer failed. I'm beginning to think there is an unspoken limit that the amp won't protect the speaker against that you have to figure out yourself. So, after it gets replaced, Bass stays at 50% or below at all times. Kinda sucks, but oh well. I think this will be my last HK system unless they change the design of of the floor mount woofer.

[justinnum1]

i have to say, i heard the standars stereo at the dealer yesterday and i thought it sounded pretty good. Not better than the HK but not much worse. Starting to think about canceling HK and adding adaptive suspension, but i love listening to music so i will have to sleep on it. One thing i noticed was in the std stereo the soundstage sounded lower than ear level whereas in my HK, it sounds right at ear level. probably will just go with the HK again but thinking if its worth it to go with adaptive suspension even tho i live in florida and there are no turns here lol

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

i have to say, i heard the standars stereo at the dealer yesterday and i thought it sounded pretty good. Not better than the HK but not much worse. Starting to think about canceling HK and adding adaptive suspension, but i love listening to music so i will have to sleep on it. One thing i noticed was in the std stereo the soundstage sounded lower than ear level whereas in my HK, it sounds right at ear level. probably will just go with the HK again but thinking if its worth it to go with adaptive suspension even tho i live in florida and there are no turns here lol

Just know that there are actual limits to the HK floor mounted speakers. I have discovered this limit, much to my dismay, for the second time. Though I'm not sure if I am the only one with this bad luck.

As far as suspension, it's all over as far as likes and dislikes on this board. Personally, I fail to see the need. I live in an urban area. So, the roads don't change much in roughness. I have found that the stock sport suspension is neither harsh nor soft. The tires play a much larger role in that regard. I currently have Goodyears on my M-Sport. The ride is smooth and noticeably quiet. I tested the grip on a 20mph on-ramp at 60+ mph a few days ago and there was no slip (fastest I've every hit that ramp). Some people like adaptability. To me, it's just one more thing that can break.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Just know that there are actual limits to the HK floor mounted speakers. I have discovered this limit, much to my dismay, for the second time. Though I'm not sure if I am the only one with this bad luck.

As far as suspension, it's all over as far as likes and dislikes on this board. Personally, I fail to see the need. I live in an urban area. So, the roads don't change much in roughness. I have found that the stock sport suspension is neither harsh nor soft. The tires play a much larger role in that regard. I currently have Goodyears on my M-Sport. The ride is smooth and noticeably quiet. I tested the grip on a 20mph on-ramp at 60+ mph a few days ago and there was no slip (fastest I've every hit that ramp). Some people like adaptability. To me, it's just one more thing that can break.

I agree, i have always been a fan of BMW passive sport suspensions.

What exactly do you mean bu their are limits to the HK floor mounted speakers? Are you saying you popped the subs?

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

I agree, i have always been a fan of BMW passive sport suspensions.

What exactly do you mean bu their are limits to the HK floor mounted speakers? Are you saying you popped the subs?

Yep. And not even at full power. Bass wasn't peaked and neither was the volume. And it only seems to happen on the HK system for some reason.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Yep. And not even at full power. Bass wasn't peaked and neither was the volume. And it only seems to happen on the HK system for some reason.

hmm, weird. i plan my EDM very loud, and have yet to blow a sub. bmw has always been good about replacing speakers.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Yep. And not even at full power. Bass wasn't peaked and neither was the volume. And it only seems to happen on the HK system for some reason.

Yes, BUT, source material is important factor as well.

IT really also depends on what you're listening too.
Classical music, Jazz, classic rock will not have a tendency to blow out the subs, as they are recorded with a more balanced method that doesn't emphasize the low end. There are some rock recordings that do sound great with subs, but it's not as common.

Hip hip, electronic dance music, remixes, techno, etc.... tend to really drive up the bass and sub bass during recording and mix down.
It's a desired aspect of certain types of music.
Even at moderate listening levels, the bass, sub bass source can still be very loud, and could be a number of db higher than the rest of the recording. That can kill a bass driver.

Typically, distortion is what kills the driver more so than clean raw power.
A 10 watt amp that has 10-20% distortion at max levels may not seem "loud", but it could easily and quickly kill a speaker with all it's distortion.

You may think your bass settings weren't peaked nor the volume, but where ever they are along with the source material could have done the damage.
Was the music material heavy on the bass?

Nearly all car audio systems have a "compressor/limiter" built in.
This can be designed and implemented in different ways, but the idea is to keep anything above a certain "db" level from hitting the speakers/drivers.
In some car audio systems you can hear the compression circuit "breathing", as it limits bass and over all volume.
I'm surprised that you had a blow out.
What sound, if any, is the blown driver making now?

It's unfortunate to have this happen to you twice.
You may just be that lucky/unlucky, and got some bad drivers.
BTW, were you listening to the same music when the both failures occurred?

I don't want to defend the HK system, as I've seen too many of these "upgraded" components still look quite cheap compared to what anyone get in the after market.

You do have a warranty. Take it in and get the driver replaced.
It'll be all good.
As someone already stated, the HK is better than the standard HI-Fi offering. Is it worth how much BMW is charging for it? That's what each person has to decide for themselves.

Yes, for $900 you can do some things in the aftermarket that would be better, but that's assuming you know what you're doing, AND can do the work yourself.
If you can't, then $900 won't get you there.
Labor/installation can cost more than the hardware depending on the setup.
For anyone leasing, to me, it's a no brainer. It's residualized and worth it.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Just know that there are actual limits to the HK floor mounted speakers. I have discovered this limit, much to my dismay, for the second time. Though I'm not sure if I am the only one with this bad luck.

As far as suspension, it's all over as far as likes and dislikes on this board. Personally, I fail to see the need. I live in an urban area. So, the roads don't change much in roughness. I have found that the stock sport suspension is neither harsh nor soft. The tires play a much larger role in that regard. I currently have Goodyears on my M-Sport. The ride is smooth and noticeably quiet. I tested the grip on a 20mph on-ramp at 60+ mph a few days ago and there was no slip (fastest I've every hit that ramp). Some people like adaptability. To me, it's just one more thing that can break.

I just picked up my Msport yesterday, and have only put on about 50 miles since then.
I did spec the DH pkg as it wasn't that bad in a lease, and I had money coming from the drive event.

I can't speak definitively as I don't have enough mileage and experience with the adaptive suspension yet.
But, I will say this for now, I've always liked BMW's sport suspensions, especially the way they tune the 3 series sport suspension.
So far, I haven't felt the adaptive to be any better than the sport suspension.

There is one negative I don't like. I thought that I would be able to set the adaptive suspension to my liking independently of the driver mode settings. After all, I'm paying extra for something extra, that should have it's own settings.
Nope. Adaptive suspension is linked to the drive mode.
If you select "comfort' drivers mode so that you can retain a less aggressive throttle, lighter steering effort, and full use of all 8spds of the AT, then you also accept the "comfort" suspension setting.

VSS is fine, no complaints. But, nothing really more special or better than the non VSS steering. I would have preferred an even closer base ratio, and even firmer steering effort. However, there really isn't much difference.
Perhaps if I drove cars with and without, back to back, I'd notice the difference. To me that just shows how indistinct VSS is.

If I had to choose again, I don't think I'd add the DH pkg.
As I said, this is just very early preliminary impressions, that very well may change with more time and experience with the pkg.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Yes, BUT, source material is important factor as well.

IT really also depends on what you're listening too.
Classical music, Jazz, classic rock will not have a tendency to blow out the subs, as they are recorded with a more balanced method that doesn't emphasize the low end. There are some rock recordings that do sound great with subs, but it's not as common.

Hip hip, electronic dance music, remixes, techno, etc.... tend to really drive up the bass and sub bass during recording and mix down.
It's a desired aspect of certain types of music.
Even at moderate listening levels, the bass, sub bass source can still be very loud, and could be a number of db higher than the rest of the recording. That can kill a bass driver.

Typically, distortion is what kills the driver more so than clean raw power.
A 10 watt amp that has 10-20% distortion at max levels may not seem "loud", but it could easily and quickly kill a speaker with all it's distortion.

You may think your bass settings weren't peaked nor the volume, but where ever they are along with the source material could have done the damage.
Was the music material heavy on the bass?

Nearly all car audio systems have a "compressor/limiter" built in.
This can be designed and implemented in different ways, but the idea is to keep anything above a certain "db" level from hitting the speakers/drivers.
In some car audio systems you can hear the compression circuit "breathing", as it limits bass and over all volume.
I'm surprised that you had a blow out.
What sound, if any, is the blown driver making now?

It's unfortunate to have this happen to you twice.
You may just be that lucky/unlucky, and got some bad drivers.
BTW, were you listening to the same music when the both failures occurred?

I don't want to defend the HK system, as I've seen too many of these "upgraded" components still look quite cheap compared to what anyone get in the after market.

You do have a warranty. Take it in and get the driver replaced.
It'll be all good.
As someone already stated, the HK is better than the standard HI-Fi offering. Is it worth how much BMW is charging for it? That's what each person has to decide for themselves.

Yes, for $900 you can do some things in the aftermarket that would be better, but that's assuming you know what you're doing, AND can do the work yourself.
If you can't, then $900 won't get you there.
Labor/installation can cost more than the hardware depending on the setup.
For anyone leasing, to me, it's a no brainer. It's residualized and worth it.

I'll be safe and just maintain factory settings. Not going to take the chance again. After the second time, I'm spooked.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I just picked up my Msport yesterday, and have only put on about 50 miles since then.
I did spec the DH pkg as it wasn't that bad in a lease, and I had money coming from the drive event.

I can't speak definitively as I don't have enough mileage and experience with the adaptive suspension yet.
But, I will say this for now, I've always liked BMW's sport suspensions, especially the way they tune the 3 series sport suspension.
So far, I haven't felt the adaptive to be any better than the sport suspension.

There is one negative I don't like. I thought that I would be able to set the adaptive suspension to my liking independently of the driver mode settings. After all, I'm paying extra for something extra, that should have it's own settings.
Nope. Adaptive suspension is linked to the drive mode.
If you select "comfort' drivers mode so that you can retain a less aggressive throttle, lighter steering effort, and full use of all 8spds of the AT, then you also accept the "comfort" suspension setting.

VSS is fine, no complaints. But, nothing really more special or better than the non VSS steering. I would have preferred an even closer base ratio, and even firmer steering effort. However, there really isn't much difference.
Perhaps if I drove cars with and without, back to back, I'd notice the difference. To me that just shows how indistinct VSS is.

If I had to choose again, I don't think I'd add the DH pkg.
As I said, this is just very early preliminary impressions, that very well may change with more time and experience with the pkg.

that was my only qualm with the DH pkg. I drive in eco pro most of the time, and i would want to the stiffest suspension setting in ECO, but from what i have read thats not feaslable.

Im sure the DH pkg will come in handy in sport mode on some twisty roads, but i live in Florida, and there are no curved roads.

I have read a lot of people who have VSS say they dont have steering vibration so that sounds good.

[adelphi_sky]

Does a one-year subscription to Sirius radio come with the HK system? If so, I need to take my car in because I can't seem to find it on my system. Is this normal? I had a performance center pickup.

EDIT: Nevermind. Comes with the premium package.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Just know that there are actual limits to the HK floor mounted speakers. I have discovered this limit, much to my dismay, for the second time. Though I'm not sure if I am the only one with this bad luck.

As far as suspension, it's all over as far as likes and dislikes on this board. Personally, I fail to see the need. I live in an urban area. So, the roads don't change much in roughness. I have found that the stock sport suspension is neither harsh nor soft. The tires play a much larger role in that regard. I currently have Goodyears on my M-Sport. The ride is smooth and noticeably quiet. I tested the grip on a 20mph on-ramp at 60+ mph a few days ago and there was no slip (fastest I've every hit that ramp). Some people like adaptability. To me, it's just one more thing that can break.

I want to add some comments now that I've had more time to play with the HK audio.

I'm running my HK EQ about +3 clicks at 100hz, +1 click at 200hz, and "bass" is about +2 clicks, and I play it fairly loud with very good thump.

I spent a good amount of time with my HK yesterday.
Over all it's a pretty decent system. The amp has plenty of headroom to listen at lower volumes and still get a good rounded low end, and it has the power to play loud and more importantly clean when you crank it up.

At standard eq settings the mid high end is brittle. Upper mids seem accentuated with the metal dome tweets.
This brittleness is even worse when listening to Sat radio, as that source material is not the best quality. FM sounds warmer than Sat source, and
HD FM has a very nice sound, if you can get it to lock and stay.

In my area, HD FM doesn't lock very well, and the receiver jumps between HD and standard FM and ruins the listening.
I think BMW needed to put in a better antenna. I'm only about 35-40 miles from where the Chicago station transmit from, so it should lock much better than it does.

I started tweaking the HK EQ to see if I could remove some of that brittleness, and I'm happy I was able to get a warmer tone with just a few adjustments.
The eq settings I have work well on FM and Sat radio. I haven't tried my iPod yet.
I was disappointed the HK didn't include separate eq settings for different sources. That's a big oversight considering the big variation in volume between sources and over all eq. It would have improved the system if eq settings went with source, so that we could set eq for CD, Sat, iPod, etc...

The best sound is from quality CD's, which is still my favorite source for best audio quality. I put in a Steely Dan "best of" CD and am very delighted at how nice it sounds through the HK system, very nice.

I turned Logic 7 on for the 3 sources I tried. It does a decent job of creating a sound field that spreads the around/wider so that all the music doesn't sound as if it's coming from mostly just one corner. However, it does also alter the balance and tonal quality of the instruments in the mix.
I turned L7 on an off and listened for a good bit, and then switching back and forth. I prefer not to have L7 on as it imparts a quality that's artificial that is more pronounced the more familiar I am with the music.
It's not bad though, not at all, and I think a lot of people with find it better for listening to music in a car. And, if you have rear passengers L7 seems to improve their listening enjoyment.

This HK system can play very loud. There is plenty of power in L7 or no L7.
With the eq set to my liking there is very nice bass extension for an OEM system, and mid-bass is clean and gives very nice punch if it's in the recording.
I think if HK were to have used silk dome tweeters it would have an even better, warmer tonal quality. JBL was an is a big user of titanium dome tweets. I have a set of JBL home stereo speakers and at the time JBL was really pushing this material. I think that's why HK is using it.

I have no qualms with recommending the HK upgrade to anyone who wants a clean sounding system at high volumes and especially at low volumes.
The standard system is adequate, but the HK moves up to good.
One reason why people need turn up the base system to get it to sound better is because bass frequencies require much greater power to be reproduced and then heard at the same volume level as mid and high frequencies. Seems the standard system doesn't have a low volume compensation, which used to be called "loudness" on many car audio head units. "Loudness" was designed to compensate for the fact that bass frequencies need to be bumped up in order to hear/perceive them as the same volume level. So, by turning up the power it also brings up the bass level and makes sound better. The trade off is that the system doesn't sound so good at low volumes, and then once you start turning up the volume you run out of power to keep the output clean with less distortion.
The HK's power is not just about loud volume, it's about clean sound at low and how and all volume level in between.

So for I really like the HK system.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

that was my only qualm with the DH pkg. I drive in eco pro most of the time, and i would want to the stiffest suspension setting in ECO, but from what i have read thats not feaslable.

Im sure the DH pkg will come in handy in sport mode on some twisty roads, but i live in Florida, and there are no curved roads.

I have read a lot of people who have VSS say they dont have steering vibration so that sounds good.

If you are asking, can you drive in ECO and have the adaptive set to sport, then it doesn't appear that you can do that.
But, you can run in 'comfort' and have the adaptive set to sport.
It's in the iDrive sport configuration.
You can set the sport configuration so that, if you push the sport button it will set drive train (throttle, trans, steering effort) to sport, and the suspension to sport.
Or, you can set it so that only drive train is set to sport, suspension is in comfort.
Or, you can set the drive train to remain in comfort, suspension set to sport.

I don't think there is much difference between Eco and comfort, other than perhaps the throttle response is even lighter than comfort, and the AC runs on reduced cycling.
And if you're doing mostly highway driving, there won't be much difference between Eco and comfort at all, as you're not using the throttle that much.
To a nearly equal extent, even in sport mode, highway MPG won't vary too much as again, on the highway you're driving with a steady throttle.
The biggest effects and gains with ECO and Comfort will be in city driving.

[Dennis335i]

The biggest problem with comparing the two systems is that the HK speakers aren't really broken in in the showroom. It took a couple of weeks of playing the audio system before the speakers started sounding right. When they were new, they sounded dull and the bass wasn't as strong. I definitely think it was worth the money to upgrade though. The sound is very precise and has no distortion at loud volumes. You may need to play with the equalizer if you want strong bass. Don't just turn up the bass setting because it will sound dull.