[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by Gen13 F36

No biggy....as long as you can bring down the price to invoice you won hahaha

I used TrueCar...was painless as ever. I'd use them again for sure. BMW needs to come out with something that grabs me by the throat and shakes me or my GC will get traded in for a new C7 within a year I hope..or when the warranty runs out. (I love all the M cars..but I've wanted a Corvette for a long time.) My wifes X3 would probably turn into a new X3M before it's done so I can get away with a 2 -seater

[PennSt8]

Kia deserves credit where it is due. Looking at the scoring numbers from C&D article reveals that there are still powertrain and refinement issues.

C&D should have used the numbers from the all-season shod A5 in their comparo. It's silly that they didn't do this in the first place.

[Facin]

Love that Kia is doing here. The BMW’s bones are well over 5 years old now with only slight changes over the years. Not that surprising to see the A5 whip up on it a bit.

[instalher]

don't forget, that's the best of kia.. period. they cant make it any better.. sooo it can hold its own with a lot of cars.. but lets be honest, when BMW, AUDI or even M.B. decide to flex there muscle.. That car will look like a entry level car.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by instalher

don't forget, that's the best of kia.. period. they cant make it any better.. sooo it can hold its own with a lot of cars.. but lets be honest, when BMW, AUDI or even M.B. decide to flex there muscle.. That car will look like a entry level car.

Of course Kia can do better. It’s their first shot in this segment and they are already competitive. It’s ignorant to think that a company that started with crappy little cars that now can do this can’t improve.

[instalher]

yes they can improve on the car.. not my point,, Bmw can also make a car that will never break, If they want.. but that's just not in the cards.. My point is this is there best car TO DATE, so as it ages and gets better over time, hopefully, so will everyone eles.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by instalher

yes they can improve on the car.. not my point,, Bmw can also make a car that will never break, If they want.. but that's just not in the cards.. My point is this is there best car TO DATE, so as it ages and gets better over time, hopefully, so will everyone eles.

Huh?

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by instalher

don't forget, that's the best of kia.. period. they cant make it any better.. sooo it can hold its own with a lot of cars.. but lets be honest, when BMW, AUDI or even M.B. decide to flex there muscle.. That car will look like a entry level car.

I guess you've never been in a Genesis. Why could Kia not replicate that?

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

I can't imagine that anyone in the market for an A5 sportback or a 430 coupe are going to go with the KIA instead. I just can't imagine that actually happening, unless they were like, Korean or something. I work in Koreatown in L.A. where there are a shit ton of Koreans with money and many of them rep the home country in the Equus or whatever, which are really nice by the way, but otherwise..

You can talk about car mag comparisons and 'driving cars at the limit' and 'understeer and oversteer' and 'steering feel' all day long, but at the end of the day no one actually ASPIRES to drive a KIA sportback. They just don't. Not yet anyway. But I get it, car magazines like to compare cars based on how they drive and the 4 series could literally have suspension made of marshmallows and literally come with no steering wheel and people would buy it over the KIA.

I just saw the Stinger at the Philly Auto Show. The GT was up on a turn table; only the 2.0 was on the floor for people to get inside.

I can't disagree with this--if someone is seriously considering a 430 GC or an A5 SportBack, the Stinger 2.0 it just not up to par; the interior was disappointing. You may get people who test drive all 3 to kid themselves into thinking they are cross shopping.

BUT (without having been able to see the interior of the GT), I can see customers cross shopping the GT vs the 430 vs the A5. Is the Kia quality on par with the Germans? Probably not. But for the same price (or even less depending on how you option it), you can get a similar style car with 100 more HP. That I can see.

[Groundpounder]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

I'd agree with the above for the most part. For valet panache, a Kia is a Kia...and will not get a spot in front of any hot spot before the german, italian or british cars.

Which is proof that there are plenty of BMW drivers that have the car as a status symbol, not because it is the best car.

Once Stingers come off lease they will be great deals.

[instalher]

Originally Posted by Groundpounder

Which is proof that there are plenty of BMW drivers that have the car as a status symbol, not because it is the best car.

Once Stingers come off lease they will be great deals.

that's why Patak Philippe sells the 5227j for $45000 and timex sells for 125. both due the same thing just one is status exclusively.. the kia is more reliable, faster, handles better, corners better, cheaper, more features. but marketing has done there job when it comes to the badge in your driveway... and most will buy a german car.. just my two cents.

[wheen]

Originally Posted by instalher

don't forget, that's the best of kia.. period. they cant make it any better.. sooo it can hold its own with a lot of cars.. but lets be honest, when BMW, AUDI or even M.B. decide to flex there muscle.. That car will look like a entry level car.

for that price point, with that warranty, BMW/Audi can do better?

[TBro2002]

I've had 2 Kia's and would never get another one. I still have oil stains in the driveway from the last one.

[eluded]

If only it had a manual

[FaRKle!]

I had a red Stinger go by me the other day on the freeway. That thing has some road presence! Funny enough, I had a black Alfa Giulia go by me this morning on my way to work and the first thing I thought was, "Oh, I've finally seen one in the wild." and the next thought was, "That has as much road presence as an Acura ILX..." Black is not a good color for that car.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by Groundpounder

Which is proof that there are plenty of BMW drivers that have the car as a status symbol, not because it is the best car.

Once Stingers come off lease they will be great deals.

Or the valets are in charge of status at the popular places. My X3 gets parked in the back with the rest of the BMWS, etc. The top spots go to Ferrari/Bentley/RR and the G-wagens....at least out here in SoCal. BMW for the most part, isn't that big a deal here unless it's a new i8 or 7 series.

[BMWILUVU]

I was in a Stinger today. The steering wheel looked alot like the BMW Msport wheel. The interior reminded me of an F30. It looked like a cheap F30 a Korean copy.

[sr5959]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

I was in a Stinger today. The steering wheel looked alot like the BMW Msport wheel. The interior reminded me of an F30. It looked like a cheap F30 a Korean copy.

I'm surprised to hear this. A work colleague just bought a top-spec Stinger and took me for a spin in it. I thought the interior was really nice, better than an F Series.

[metallicpea]

What is the most troubling is that the Audi beat the BMW in every single Powertrain and Chassis category and this thread sounds like a bunch of excuses. Fact is, BMW is catering to the masses and dropping the sporting character from most of it's offering (or making it harder to spec special) and this is the result. The once heralded drivers car has fallen. C&D has loved BMW since forever and even they aren't being fooled by BMW's softening.

[Kafkaesque328]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Or the valets are in charge of status at the popular places. My X3 gets parked in the back with the rest of the BMWS, etc. The top spots go to Ferrari/Bentley/RR and the G-wagens....at least out here in SoCal. BMW for the most part, isn't that big a deal here unless it's a new i8 or 7 series.

Guess it depends where you are valeting the car. Ive been a resident of El A since 1999 and the entry level BMW has always been entry level respectable but still respectable. But you are right, I mean 3 and 4 series are no big deal in a city with some of the highest wealth concentration in the world. Lets also remember though that even though there is all this wealth, it is practically a 3rd world country in terms of disparity between rich and poor and per capita, in terms of numbers, L.A. probably has more poor people in it than almost any city in the nation. So that being said, an entry level BMW is still status to a large % of the population. Lets not forget either that the median household income in LA county is like $60k. It edges a little higher in Glendale, Burbank, Orange county, etc. but not as high as you'd think and doesn't really touch like, Silicone valley for example.

KIA just isn't there yet. In the real world, almost no one is going to go with a KIA over something from the big 3; just not going to happen. What I will say is that my main venue is in Koreatown and there are some wealthy Koreans cruising around in the Hyundai Equus and those things are pretty nice. But just anecdotally, seeing as I am in Koreatown all the time and there is a lot of money concentrated in that little area and almost ZERO Koreans with money can be observed driving a KIA of any kind, then anecdotally, I am right. Most common cars I see driven by Koreans with money, on a daily basis, are BMW, followed by Mercs, Audis and a few Lexus. Kia?! Hahaha. In terms of Bimmers, M cars are popular, along with 7 series, X5's, etc.

By the time anyone 'aspires' to drive a KIA, we will all be cruising around in automated cars with a robot taxi driver like in Minority Report.

Originally Posted by metallicpea

What is the most troubling is that the Audi beat the BMW in every single Powertrain and Chassis category and this thread sounds like a bunch of excuses. Fact is, BMW is catering to the masses and dropping the sporting character from most of it's offering (or making it harder to spec special) and this is the result. The once heralded drivers car has fallen. C&D has loved BMW since forever and even they aren't being fooled by BMW's softening.

Coming from the guy on his 10th BMW...

If only people in the real world listened to car magazines, we'd all be driving around in a Cadillac ATS. Remember back when they called that one the '3 series killer?' Remember all 10 people who ran out and bought it after that? Me neither.

[sr5959]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

Guess it depends where you are valeting the car. Ive been a resident of El A since 1999 and the entry level BMW has always been entry level respectable but still respectable. But you are right, I mean 3 and 4 series are no big deal in a city with some of the highest wealth concentration in the world. Lets also remember though that even though there is all this wealth, it is practically a 3rd world country in terms of disparity between rich and poor and per capita, in terms of numbers, L.A. probably has more poor people in it than almost any city in the nation. So that being said, an entry level BMW is still status to a large % of the population. Lets not forget either that the median household income in LA county is like $60k. It edges a little higher in Glendale, Burbank, Orange county, etc. but not as high as you'd think and doesn't really touch like, Silicone valley for example.

KIA just isn't there yet. In the real world, almost no one is going to go with a KIA over something from the big 3; just not going to happen. What I will say is that my main venue is in Koreatown and there are some wealthy Koreans cruising around in the Hyundai Equus and those things are pretty nice. But just anecdotally, seeing as I am in Koreatown all the time and there is a lot of money concentrated in that little area and almost ZERO Koreans with money can be observed driving a KIA of any kind, then anecdotally, I am right. Most common cars I see driven by Koreans with money, on a daily basis, are BMW, followed by Mercs, Audis and a few Lexus. Kia?! Hahaha. In terms of Bimmers, M cars are popular, along with 7 series, X5's, etc.

By the time anyone 'aspires' to drive a KIA, we will all be cruising around in automated cars with a robot taxi driver like in Minority Report.

Coming from the guy on his 10th BMW...

If only people in the real world listened to car magazines, we'd all be driving around in a Cadillac ATS. Remember back when they called that one the '3 series killer?' Remember all 10 people who ran out and bought it after that? Me neither.

Right now my ideal 'realistic' car would be a loaded S5 Sportback, and with Audi lease prices even that is more than I want to spend monthly. What I'm really waiting for, and I'll drive the C Class CPO I just bought until then, is an update of the 440GC on the new G platform with a much nicer interior and hopefully back to the days of great lease deals on BMWs with security deposits. Or if I get a great deal on a RR Velar might get one of those.

[bri1042]

The trick with Audi leases is to lease for 42 months instead of 36. Payments come out close to a 3-Series if you get the prices about the same (though without the maintenance plan). I've almost leased one twice. 42 Months is a long lease, though.