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      12-15-2016, 01:22 PM   #23
deviantspeed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive335 View Post
Off topic but did you consider the Mk7 GTI with the powerpack?

The LSD really negates a lot of the FWD problems and is more fun than RWD with an open diff IMO
Made a nice difference, but not stock say stock 2.0T to REVO difference.

I used to have a GTI with a mechanical LSD, it was fun, but it was still FWD

Honestly, I've had a ton of vw's and audi's but I really think that RWD or AWD is where it's at for me now.

Oh, and it's an N20 with just the regular ZF8. Talking about putting the car into sport mode (no, I don't have sport +).
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      12-16-2016, 01:39 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by drive335 View Post
Off topic but did you consider the Mk7 GTI with the powerpack?

The LSD really negates a lot of the FWD problems and is more fun than RWD with an open diff IMO
Yes I did. I am a huge fan of the GTI and the MK7 can do some amazing things with a tune and downpipe. A few issues for me:

1) I dont fit well in the new gtis. My right knee hits up against the center console. While I had this issue with my previous MK7 Jetta, the part my knee rubbed up against was soft touch...whereas in the GTI its hard plastic. So getting comfortable was a huge concern with buying the MK7 GTI. I am not a fan of all these center consoles poking out so far...Audi and BMW do a great job of having them pushed back towards the engine has it gets closer to the transmission, so I fit just great (im 6'3').
2) I really dont want to buy a new car again... I feel there is so much money lost and would rather pick up a few year old model for significantly less. So finding one used with the specs I wanted was tough. Same goes for my m-sport 328i with red leather, HID, NAV, heated seats, etc. It was missing the 6 speed and/or sport tranny...but had enough of what I wanted to jump on it for the price.
3) The GTI stock....is not exactly thrilling. The beauty of that car is when you lower it a bit, tune, downpipe, intake, short shift, engine/transmission mounts, etc...lol. That is where the car feels like a damn race car but still a perfect DD. And buying all those mods is alot of money. The BMW looks great inside and out stock (with the m-sport kit) and its more slight mods to help that would get it to where I want it to be vs. an entire overhaul.
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      12-19-2016, 10:10 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by madmortar View Post
3) The GTI stock....is not exactly thrilling. The beauty of that car is when you lower it a bit, tune, downpipe, intake, short shift, engine/transmission mounts, etc...lol. That is where the car feels like a damn race car but still a perfect DD. And buying all those mods is alot of money. The BMW looks great inside and out stock (with the m-sport kit) and its more slight mods to help that would get it to where I want it to be vs. an entire overhaul.
On 3, I'd want another STI, but the newest ones get crappy mileage, and are popping engines left and right.

Golf R might be where it's at for you, but most are over $40k new, and questionable used if you can even find one. I'll stick with my $14k F30 turbo
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      12-20-2016, 11:30 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by deviantspeed View Post
On 3, I'd want another STI, but the newest ones get crappy mileage, and are popping engines left and right.

Golf R might be where it's at for you, but most are over $40k new, and questionable used if you can even find one. I'll stick with my $14k F30 turbo
Yes, I was going to say screw point 1) if it was coming down to getting a Golf R. Huge fan of those cars...But yes, the price is SO high. And mod bug is too great with VW and APR's long list of yummy parts. Would have turned into a 50K+ purchase in no time....but then again a stage 2 Golf R is very...very...quick.

The other car I looked at was a CPO B8.5 S4. But mid 30s was still pretty high for me. I got the BMW for like 29K and with an extra year of warranty, cost of interest, and taxes, ill be all-in for about 36K when its paid off. So I figure if I bought a 35K-36K car at sticker, id be closer to 40K all in when its all said and done. But then again, you really cant compare the power of a F30 N20 vs. S4 or Golf R...totally different beast.

Unless some amazing deal finds its way to my local dealers, ill likely drive this car until warranty is gone summer 2020...and then take my time and pick out something better.
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      12-20-2016, 12:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive335 View Post
Off topic but did you consider the Mk7 GTI with the powerpack?

The LSD really negates a lot of the FWD problems and is more fun than RWD with an open diff IMO
I just went from a tuned '14 320i 6MT -> '17 GTI Autobahn 6MT, and I concur. RWD is great, but an open diff kills all the fun when the nannies have to brake the inside wheel every time you try to accelerate out of a corner. The GTI just slingshots out of corners with no drama, thanks to that magical electromechanical LSD.

The only downsides of FWD that are apparent in the Mk7 GTI with the LSD are the usual judders through the steering wheel when you lose traction (although after the F30's numb steering, it was nice to feel ANYTHING through the wheel).

I agree with the OP about the GTI's center console intrusion though; I always end up resting my right leg there, and it's pretty hard plastic in the GTI. I wish more cars would have padding there, like on the F8x/Camaro/etc.
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      12-20-2016, 01:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by the_phew View Post
I just went from a tuned '14 320i 6MT -> '17 GTI Autobahn 6MT, and I concur. RWD is great, but an open diff kills all the fun when the nannies have to brake the inside wheel every time you try to accelerate out of a corner. The GTI just slingshots out of corners with no drama, thanks to that magical electromechanical LSD.

The only downsides of FWD that are apparent in the Mk7 GTI with the LSD are the usual judders through the steering wheel when you lose traction (although after the F30's numb steering, it was nice to feel ANYTHING through the wheel).

I agree with the OP about the GTI's center console intrusion though; I always end up resting my right leg there, and it's pretty hard plastic in the GTI. I wish more cars would have padding there, like on the F8x/Camaro/etc.
pics!! And congrats!
Glad to see BMW/VW love on this forum.
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      12-21-2016, 09:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmortar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_phew View Post
I just went from a tuned '14 320i 6MT -> '17 GTI Autobahn 6MT, and I concur. RWD is great, but an open diff kills all the fun when the nannies have to brake the inside wheel every time you try to accelerate out of a corner. The GTI just slingshots out of corners with no drama, thanks to that magical electromechanical LSD.

The only downsides of FWD that are apparent in the Mk7 GTI with the LSD are the usual judders through the steering wheel when you lose traction (although after the F30's numb steering, it was nice to feel ANYTHING through the wheel).

I agree with the OP about the GTI's center console intrusion though; I always end up resting my right leg there, and it's pretty hard plastic in the GTI. I wish more cars would have padding there, like on the F8x/Camaro/etc.
pics!! And congrats!
Glad to see BMW/VW love on this forum.
I still own my 2006 GLI and I drive it as my winter car. It is OEM+ and has many goodies like APR II+ among suspension, SB Clutch, VF mounts, EVO MS intake etc. I have had the car for 10 years and still makes me smile. I think it is as much fun as my 335.

When I was in the market. I almost got a MKVII GTI PP, if it had the 8in NAV I would have been in the GTI or an R. I went with a fully loaded 335 instead. I agree that sometimes my 10 YO VW feels more solid. But the BMW is not bad. Mine does not rattle much, but heck there is a lot of plastic so a bit I am ok with it.
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      12-21-2016, 10:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by AGONXF30 View Post
When I was in the market. I almost got a MKVII GTI PP, if it had the 8in NAV I would have been in the GTI or an R.
Eurozone is selling an OEM 8" Discover Pro retrofit kit, apparently it's plug-and-play:

https://eurozonetuning.com/products/...nt=25050998992

If/when Google adds Waze support to Android Auto, I'm considering the upgrade. As it stands, I'd probably rather use Waze on my phone screen than Google Maps/VW's nav on either the stock 6.5" screen or this 8" screen.

The e-LSD in the GTI has been a real eye-opener for me; I won't buy another car with an open diff (even a regular mechanical LSD might not cut it). As far as I know, the GTI is the cheapest entry point for an electromechanical LSD right now, followed by the Focus RS->Camaro SS 1LE->S4 w/ Sport Differential->M2 as you move up the pricing ladder (I probably left a few out). I can't wait until the tech trickles down to more attainable RWD cars (although the Camaro SS 1LE is pretty attainable).

Last edited by the_phew; 12-21-2016 at 11:33 AM.
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      12-21-2016, 10:59 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by the_phew View Post
The e-LSD in the GTI has been a real eye-opener for me; I won't buy another car with an open diff (even a regular mechanical LSD might not cut it). As far as I know, the GTI is the cheapest entry point for an electromechanical LSD right now, followed by the Focus RS->Camaro SS 1LE->M2 as you move up the pricing ladder (I probably left a few out). I can't wait until the tech trickles down to more attainable RWD cars (although the Camaro SS 1LE is pretty attainable).
Now this is not the PP with vectoring is it? I drove the PP with vectoring and it was amazing! I almost bought it on the post, if it had the nav like I said I would have been a GTI driver instead. If VW had not cheapened the GLI, I would have been driving that....
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      12-21-2016, 11:31 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by AGONXF30 View Post
Now this is not the PP with vectoring is it? I drove the PP with vectoring and it was amazing! I almost bought it on the post, if it had the nav like I said I would have been a GTI driver instead. If VW had not cheapened the GLI, I would have been driving that....
Differential terminologies have been so bastardized by marketing departments that's it's hard to differentiate (pardon the pun) between the various systems these days. But yes, I'm talking about VW's VAQ (which is standard on '17 GTIs w/ the Sport, SE, and Autobahn trims now):

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-e...xplained/30560

To me, the systems boil down to three types:
-Open diff that can brake the inside wheel: Basically every car has this now, and it's what the F3x uses.
-Mechanical LSD: Many different types (clutch/geared/viscous/etc), but they all use some mechanical means to send torque to the wheel with traction
-Electromechanical LSD: Usually an electronically-controlled clutch pack, capable of over-driving the outside wheel in a turn (i.e. torque vectoring)

Toyota (and others) refers to their plain old brake-based traction control as an "e-LSD", and many automakers call their brake-based traction control "torque vectoring". /facepalm

Last edited by the_phew; 12-21-2016 at 12:02 PM.
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      12-21-2016, 12:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by the_phew View Post
Differential terminologies have been so bastardized by marketing departments that's it's hard to differentiate (pardon the pun) between the various systems these days. But yes, I'm talking about VW's VAQ (which is standard on '17 GTIs w/ the Sport, SE, and Autobahn trims now):

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-e...xplained/30560

To me, the systems boil down to three types:
-Open diff that can brake the inside wheel: Basically every car has this now, and it's what the F3x uses.
-Mechanical LSD: Many different types (clutch/geared/viscous/etc), but they all use some mechanical means to send torque to the wheel with traction
-Electromechanical LSD: Usually an electronically-controlled clutch pack, capable of over-driving the outside wheel in a turn (i.e. torque vectoring)

Toyota (and others) refers to their plain old brake-based traction control as an "e-LSD", and many automakers call their brake-based traction control "torque vectoring". /facepalm
That is cool that the VAQ now comes standard! Are the big brakes from the PP are also standard now?

I almost put a Mech LSD in the GLI, but I opted not to because I honestly do not race the car and I felt the difference on the streets would not be drastic. I have had LSD in FWD cars in the past, and while nice, on the roads, they do not make much of a difference in my opinion for the price.
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      12-21-2016, 12:56 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by AGONXF30 View Post
That is cool that the VAQ now comes standard! Are the big brakes from the PP are also standard now?

I almost put a Mech LSD in the GLI, but I opted not to because I honestly do not race the car and I felt the difference on the streets would not be drastic. I have had LSD in FWD cars in the past, and while nice, on the roads, they do not make much of a difference in my opinion for the price.
The old "Performance Package" is now standard on the Sport, SE, and Autobahn. The "Lighting Package" is standard on Sport and Autobahn, optional on SE. The base S trim doesn't offer PP or LP any more, but the Sport trim is basically S+PP and LP. A good change, IMHO, since it used to be damn near impossible to source a 6MT car with PP and LP, regardless of trim. They also rolled many of the old "Driver Assistance Package" options (Adaptive Cruise Control and Blind Spot Monitoring, mainly) into the Autoban trim, although they do still offer an order-only DAP with lane-keep assist, park pilot, and some other stuff.

I don't track either (or even hoon on public roads), but I do love to put the pedal down on ramps. The LSD is very obvious in any situation where you are applying power in/out of a curve, just like the F3x's jarring brake-based system is very noticeable in that situation. I don't think there is any difference in performance metrics (lateral Gs, for instance), but the 'slingshot' effect with VAQ is just more fun!
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      12-21-2016, 12:59 PM   #35
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The old "Performance Package" is now standard on the Sport, SE, and Autobahn. The "Lighting Package" is standard on Sport and Autobahn, optional on SE. The base S trim doesn't offer PP or LP any more, but the Sport trim is basically S+PP and LP. A good change, IMHO, since it used to be damn near impossible to source a 6MT car with PP and LP, regardless of trim.

I don't track either (or even hoon on public roads), but I do love to put the pedal down on ramps. The LSD is very obvious in any situation where you are applying power in/out of a curve, just like the F3x's jarring brake-based system is very noticeable in that situation. I don't think there is any difference in performance metrics (lateral Gs, for instance), but the 'slingshot' effect with VAQ is just more fun!
I do not care what people say! I still like VWs a lot! I think for the money they are hard to beat. I still think the MKV is a great looking car 10+ years later. The MKVII is a looker too!
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      12-22-2016, 11:35 AM   #36
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I do not care what people say! I still like VWs a lot! I think for the money they are hard to beat. I still think the MKV is a great looking car 10+ years later. The MKVII is a looker too!
Yea almost wanted to jump into a MKV 09 with the TSI but so hard to find how I wanted it. I just couldnt do FSI again with all the issues they had (cam follower, pcv, hpfp, etc etc).

Maybe once my warranty is up ill jump into a MKVIII depending on how they are by then.
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      12-22-2016, 02:46 PM   #37
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Yea almost wanted to jump into a MKV 09 with the TSI but so hard to find how I wanted it. I just couldnt do FSI again with all the issues they had (cam follower, pcv, hpfp, etc etc).

Maybe once my warranty is up ill jump into a MKVIII depending on how they are by then.
I have changed my CAM follower four times, but they are cheap and easy to change. VW hooked me up with a new cam at 120K, even thought I did not need one. The PVC had been bypassed so I have not had any issues. The HPFP does not fail unless the follower fails. Other than that the TFSI is pretty bullet proof. I have 150K miles and it still runs like it was new.....
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      01-04-2017, 12:39 PM   #38
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As update...

Have not had the chance yet to meet with a local dealership to test drive a "sport transmission" 328i with paddles to see the differences.

Dropped the wife's Touareg off for 50K service (reminded me how great the Touareg is to drive) and walked around, sat in an R, sat in a GTI. I dont feel nearly as comfortable in those as I do my BMW...so I am very happy with my 328i for a daily driver. Even though the interior of the GTI/R is really good...the BMW is simply a step above IMO. I just fit so well in the car.

Getting a full paint correction done on the car tomorrow. The company that trucked my cars from CA to GA put a bunch of scratches on it so they are paying for the paint correction. Excited to see how she looks with (hopefully) flawless paint. Also, i have in the mail and on the way..

OEM M Performance rear spoiler, IND is paint matching it to BSM
IND paint matched BSM front reflectors
Replica M Performance rear diffuser

Might plasti dip the rear reflectors...was going to jump and buy BSM paint match ones from IND but didnt feel like the red bothered me enough to warrant $75.

After all that gets installed, I need to pick up a bunch of car cleaning supplies, vacuum, etc etc as I dont have anything after living in an apartment for the last 2 years.

Finally, ill get the BMW tinted, likely 35% all around. Then im done putting money into her for a bit. I have plans to get new wheels and lower her a tiny bit in the future, maybe a tune, but I have other things I need to buy (music equipment, a grill for the house, etc).

Ill take some pictures in the weeks to come once it all gets installed.

Thanks guys and Happy New Year!
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      01-05-2017, 11:40 AM   #39
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As update, finally moved to Savannah. My car needs a paint correction very badly. I dont know if any shops around me will do it up to my standards so might invest soon in some equipment to do it myself.

I really am back and forth about this car. I love the looks, the handling, the ride, and I fit really well inside the car (super comfy for my 6'3' body). But I am just not at all in love with the auto....maybe if I had paddle shifters and the sport transmission I would like it more? I need to go test drive one to see if it changes my opinion. I also feel like it needs alot more power.... but not in a hurry to void my warranty with a tune. Ultimately, I wish it was a 340i with 6-speed stick. But I got what I paid for!
I had a full multi stage paint correction and Gyeon Mohs+ ceramic coating done to my Mineral Grey M Sport a couple of months ago by a gentleman I cannot recommend enough in Charlotte, NC. A bit of a drive for you being in Savannah but quite possibly worth it if you're after perfection.

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*BPC DME Custom Stage 1 Tune
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*M Performance Big Brake Kit
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      01-05-2017, 12:12 PM   #40
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I had a full multi stage paint correction and Gyeon Mohs+ ceramic coating done to my Mineral Grey M Sport a couple of months ago by a gentleman I cannot recommend enough in Charlotte, NC. A bit of a drive for you being in Savannah but quite possibly worth it if you're after perfection.

Saw your post, looks amazing. Im not fronting the bill on this as my car got scratched up moving from CA to GA so the relo company is taking care of it for me. Hopefully im happy by the end of the day!!
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      01-07-2017, 02:35 PM   #41
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Surprised you didn't go A3 o A4 Quattro if you already liked VW stuff. GTIs and GLIs are nice cars, but they are kind of expensive w/ options and they still are FWD which many people would argue are not true sports cars.
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      01-07-2017, 02:39 PM   #42
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Surprised you didn't go A3 o A4 Quattro if you already liked VW stuff. GTIs and GLIs are nice cars, but they are kind of expensive w/ options and they still are FWD which many people would argue are not true sports cars.
Owned and tracked many. Not sure what you are trying to say here, as a FWD setup can be very fast on a road course. I'll just add that coming from vw/audi in most of life, it's good be back with BMW! I used have a bunch of 2002's and even a quikor (sp?) E21 back in the early driving years. I even chopped the top off of a 1602 once
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      01-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #43
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As update, Pro Shine here in SAV did not "paint correct" my car. Basically a detail job that makes the scratches less noticeable but they are still there..
Going to save up and buy the tools to do it myself in the future.

Also, installed a replica M performance rear diffuser over the weekend. Bought it used from a member on here. It fits ok, i need to mess around with it more as one of the tabs wouldnt go in. Not thrilled but i guess for the money its ok as you cant tell at all unless your face is up against the bumper. Looks alot better than the stock grey one for sure. Went back and forth about painting the rear reflectors, but they dont really bother me so I think ill keep them as is.

Should get the OEM M performance spoiler and IND side markers installed this weekend. Also hoping to de-badge for a cleaner look.





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      01-23-2017, 02:58 PM   #44
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So dropped the BMW off at the dealer to get a sensor fixed and was given a loaner 2016 328i sportline with “sport tranny” and paddles.

I must say, the different in software mapping and paddles has completely changed my mind about having an auto transmission. FINALLY I felt like I had the control I always wanted (and could get out of a manual). Downshifting…up shifting…all with a flick of a paddle was fantastic. Night and day difference in control vs my non-sport-tranny….also sport+ mode actually had a purpose as it eliminated the computer auto shifting for me as well as disengaged the button at the bottom of the accelerator pedal. I could absolutely tell the different in the software/programming as the shifts were a lot faster and hit HARD. Made the car feel much more sporty / quick. Bottom line….I need to start piecing together what I need to retrofit paddles on my F30 asap.

A few more notes..…
• If I put my car into manual mode and WOT from a dead stop, starting in 1st gear… It will shift to 2nd and then short shift into 3rd. There is no way around it and I don’t know why it does it. I don’t believe the 2016 with paddles did that at all as it let you wind out each gear. And im guessing that might be one reason the early F30’s had a slower 0-60 time than newer versions with the sport tranny.
• The inside of the sportline didn’t feel as nice as my M-sport…maybe it was material of the seats? Maybe it was the differences in the instrument cluster? Definitely it was the steering wheel as nothing compares to the soft leather of the M sport ones..
• Engine sounded….different? Louder for sure, like more intake noise. Not sure if it’s a difference between this rental car being a N20 (im guessing) vs. my N26? Power seemed a bit different too….mine felt like it had more power/torque down low.
• I wanted to swap the LED tail lights with mine and hope they didn’t notice
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