[drob23]

Originally Posted by DVC

Definitely encouraging... as I have a 2014 with DHP and PPK that just arrived at the port.



I've driven an e70, and it was really impressive. Felt similar to my e53 - which is equipped with Dinan camber plates and a strut brace. It's really amazing how great these big vehicles handle... so much for the old adage, "it's not how well the bear dances, but that the bear dances at all."

Is your suv lowered? If not, why the camber plates? Are you trying to run a more aggressive camber? +1 for chassis stiffening, the subframe upgrade I put on my car made a world of difference in the steering response department.

Those "trucks", I mean SUV's , have got to be more dependent on anti-roll bars. Did you upgrade those at all? From what I've heard, BMW does a much better job than most in the body roll department.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Lastly, the 335i is the only car there offered in a 3 pedal manual-some of you are like me and that makes any of the other cars a DOA scenario.

Three pedals FTW.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by drob23

Is your suv lowered? If not, why the camber plates? Are you trying to run a more aggressive camber? +1 for chassis stiffening, the subframe upgrade I put on my car made a world of difference in the steering response department.

Those "trucks", I mean SUV's , have got to be more dependent on anti-roll bars. Did you upgrade those at all? From what I've heard, BMW does a much better job than most in the body roll department.

Nope, not lowered. The Dinan plates add -0.5 degrees of camber, which was enough to REALLY make a difference. (The e53 had a lot of understeer stock)

I never did anything with the anti-roll bars... I think the OEM sport suspension ARBs are pretty stout. For what it is (a big, heavy, tall SUV), the handling of my X5 still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by tony20009

So, I got my current issue of R&T and much to my surprise I find this: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...n-65-3-roa1013

R&T say, "for the first time in memory, the top-of-the-line 3 Series leaves us wanting...The chassis still makes you look like a genius, and in normal driving, the BMW exudes a rare sense of effortlessness. The ZF-sourced gearbox is so quick-witted and smooth that you almost don't miss a clutch pedal. But the new-to-this-car electric power steering is heartbreakingly bland and distant. As with past 3 Series, the brakes are strong and communicative, but the world has caught up, and they're no longer special."

Do I rue having bought an F30 for my kid? No. I am interested in buying one to replace my E92? No, but then I wasn't wanting one even before the R&T article. Would I consider a IS for my last kid's car? Probably, but it's unlikely to be what I'll buy him as the other two have BMW 3ers and I'm not going to buy him a 335i in any case.

In the end, I guess it's nice that the 328i tops its category. It's nice that the bang for the buck winner is the 328i (or the 320i). Considering it's for all intents and purposes as fast as the IS350F, being less costly makes it the clear way to go. I think that's a good thing. It makes it all the more true that if one is going to get an F30 335i, one just does so because one wants that car, and not because there are no other compelling alternatives.

I only learned one thing new from your post. You buy BMWs for your kids. Quite impressive! One question: Can I be one of your kids

[jamesms69]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I only learned one thing new from your post. You buy BMWs for your kids. Quite impressive! One question: Can I be one of your kids

+1

[DVC]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I only learned one thing new from your post. You buy BMWs for your kids. Quite impressive! One question: Can I be one of your kids

.........

[ScarecrowBoat]

Originally Posted by DVC

These comparo tests are definitely wonky... the Lexus has the lowest g-rating on the skid pad, the worst stopping distance, the slowest 0-60/5-60 times, the second slowest 1/4 mi time, the second worst gas mileage, and it's the heaviest of the bunch. And it's weird looking. Lexus... FOR THE WIN!

This is seriously some sort of payday. The ugliest, slowest, poorest handling, heaviest car with a ridiculous interior wins? I mean, come on. Points for styling? Jesus tap dancing Christ, that Lexus is the ugliest car they produced since the SC430.

[sr5959]

Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat

This is seriously some sort of payday. The ugliest, slowest, poorest handling, heaviest car with a ridiculous interior wins? I mean, come on. Points for styling? Jesus tap dancing Christ, that Lexus is the ugliest car they produced since the SC430.

I also thought it was very ugly at first but if you see them on the road they actually look very good! Strange!

[drob23]

Originally Posted by DVC

Nope, not lowered. The Dinan plates add -0.5 degrees of camber, which was enough to REALLY make a difference. (The e53 had a lot of understeer stock)

I never did anything with the anti-roll bars... I think the OEM sport suspension ARBs are pretty stout. For what it is (a big, heavy, tall SUV), the handling of my X5 still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

Nice! Heard nothing but good things about the X3/X5.

I lowered my car about 1" and had my front camber in the "red" on one side, and "yellow" on the other. I picked up some adjustable upper control arms, and dialed the camber back from -1.8 deg to -1.4 deg. Like you said, the difference is *very* apparent, before I fixed it the car felt spring loaded side to side, like it wanted to pounce into corners - very cool.

I sort of regret that decision to go back into green, I suppose my tires and wallet do not, haha!

[DVC]

Originally Posted by drob23

I sort of regret that decision to go back into green, I suppose my tires and wallet do not, haha!

One of the final determInants in deciding to get camber plates on my X5 was the fact that my front tires were wearing unevenly on the outside shoulders. (Yes, I do like to corner hard...)
After getting camber plates, the tires have always worn evenly.

[yemenmocha]

Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat

This is seriously some sort of payday. The ugliest, slowest, poorest handling, heaviest car with a ridiculous interior wins? I mean, come on. Points for styling? Jesus tap dancing Christ, that Lexus is the ugliest car they produced since the SC430.

Well said.

And I'm not disputing the performance numbers or anything, but sometimes it's just obvious what the magazine was doing. I wanted to like the Lexus but that line going up the back was a complete deal breaker.

[turbolag]

Just keep it at this:

Magazines will write whatever it takes to keep the issues selling. And they can be bribed...

Anyone remember that time when the Lexus beat the 335i on account of "good looks"?

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

...people who pay $50-60k for a car are not going to buy one that looks that stupid when the BMW is so well rounded. Best MPG, best straight line, best all around car to live with-it's the F30. BMW sends over test cars that are HEAVILY optioned in ways that don't make the cars BETTER and then have much higher MSRPs than the competition. They could get away with it before, now-not so much.

Lastly, the 335i is the only car there offered in a 3 pedal manual-some of you are like me and that makes any of the other cars a DOA scenario.

I don't disagree with you, I'm just doing the accuracy check here. Neither the BMW nor the IS350F ticked the $50K box but both were close. I'd say, however, they are close enough that the difference is irrelevant, but not close enough to call them $50K - $60K cars. On the other hand, a 335i that comes in with an MSRP under $50K is a good thing and certainly not one laden down with a ton of "nice to have" gizmos. If I were buying a new 335i, it'd be equipped with Sport, HK radio and nav and it would come in below the $50K mark, and that seems just fine to me.

If there is any, I think the disappointment is that Lexus has -- regardless of what you, I, or the magazine writer think -- produced a car that is at least on par with the 335i performance wise and beats it on price. Also, when seen in concert with the results turned in by the other cars, one cannot help but think that just dashing to the BMW store and buying the Bimmer, and paying the premium to do so, is going to get one, if nothing else, the undisputed best performing car in its class. In the past, I haven't minded spending a bit more to get the car that is clearly a better machine, but I will hardly pay a premium to be second best.

Yes, if one wants MT, there isn't as much choice in the matter. But then that's a different comparison entirely.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I only learned one thing new from your post. You buy BMWs for your kids. Quite impressive! One question: Can I be one of your kids

LOL...You don't need to be; you already have a BMW of your own.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by sr5959

I also thought it was very ugly at first but if you see them on the road they actually look very good! Strange!

I had the same epiphany with the Panamera.

I suspect I could get used to the looks of just about any car so long as it's not just downright butt ugly to my eye. Besides, at this price range ($35K - $65K), I hardly place looks among the top three things I want form the car. At the low end of the market, I's want good looks since the car would basically be a sparse economy car offering little else besides utility and fuel economy. At the higher ends of the market, I want good looks to because I hardly want to spend that much money and have an ugly car.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by tony20009

I don't disagree with you, I'm just doing the accuracy check here. Neither the BMW nor the IS350F ticked the $50K box but both were close. I'd say, however, they are close enough that the difference is irrelevant, but not close enough to call them $50K - $60K cars. On the other hand, a 335i that comes in with an MSRP under $50K is a good thing and certainly not one laden down with a ton of "nice to have" gizmos. If I were buying a new 335i, it'd be equipped with Sport, HK radio and nav and it would come in below the $50K mark, and that seems just fine to me.

If there is any, I think the disappointment is that Lexus has -- regardless of what you, I, or the magazine writer think -- produced a car that is at least on par with the 335i performance wise and beats it on price. Also, when seen in concert with the results turned in by the other cars, one cannot help but think that just dashing to the BMW store and buying the Bimmer, and paying the premium to do so, is going to get one, if nothing else, the undisputed best performing car in its class. In the past, I haven't minded spending a bit more to get the car that is clearly a better machine, but I will hardly pay a premium to be second best.

Yes, if one wants MT, there isn't as much choice in the matter. But then that's a different comparison entirely.

What I meant, is the people ready to shell out money, and when I said $50-60k, its from this board and the experience of buying my friend's wife a 335i yesterday. So many on lots are in the $53-58k. When you are shopping with your wife, if she hates the way the car looks(which I have been around the new IS with women in tow) and they hate it, its hard to justify how it might drive a bit better in some ways than the BMW. For mag writers to score something so subjective as appearance and give the IS such a big uptick is comedic and does not represent the real world. Once again, writing an article and writing a check-let's see them put their money where their mouth's are. If each one had to take their annual salary and buy one of those cars configured anyway they wanted for under $50k I would be willing to bet NOT all of those writers/reviewers would be driving home in a Lexus.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

...when I said $50-60k, its from ...the experience of buying my friend's wife a 335i yesterday. ...

I'm glad and sad you aren't my friend. Glad because I shudder to think what you might get in return from my wife for your having bought her a BMW in that price range (or any other price range, for that matter). Sad because you aren't buying my wife/SO a car and saving me the trouble of having to do it.

[drob23]

Keep in mind that we're all biased to the design language of the German Luxury brands, which use sleek and elegant lines over aggressive harsh ones. I think the only german car you'll find that has a wing is a GT3 or high end AMG, which we would all admit is well deserved.

This contrasts to Japanese cars, which put wings, spoilers, hood scoops on just about everything. There are probably some heavy influences from anime and cartoons (just my dumb theory lol).

Then you have the American's, which love to shove chrome and bulging straight muscular right angles at you. The F150 grille can pretty much fill out my entire back windshield when some a hole is in super tailgate mode. I think a dodge charger looks like a car from the 80's, but some people think it's awesome. Function is probably the lowest in these types, have you ever sat in the newish camaro? It's like being inside a tank or something.

It would seem that most brands are straying to the Euro side, Ford poached the Aston designer and Kia did the same with Audi. Everyone is trying to have sleek LED headlights and maintain better curves. The new IS just seems to be an FU to that train of thought and back towards the cartoonish heritage of japanese aggressive lines. They probably think our cars are boring as hell to look at, and love how "daring" the front facia is. I personally think they look fugly, and never would dream of buying one.

Not that concepts are a good measure, but have you seen some of these Japanese concepts? That Hyandai one from DIAS looked like a straight joke, while the Mercedes one's at Frankfurt look pretty cool IMO.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by tony20009

I'm glad and sad you aren't my friend. Glad because I shudder to think what you might get in return from my wife for your having bought her a BMW in that price range (or any other price range, for that matter). Sad because you aren't buying my wife/SO a car and saving me the trouble of having to do it.

JV is a definite baller, but not the kind that buys friend's wives cars...pretty sure he just played "serious adviser/negotiator" role

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by drob23

JV is a definite baller, but not the kind that buys friend's wives cars...pretty sure he just played "serious adviser/negotiator" role

This lol.

I found it-needle in a haystack loaded RWD MSport with PPK for $15k off. His money and his umm rewards. He will be paying for all my meals this week. I am diving down to Georgia tomorrow in the Roadster as a vacation and to see this new F30.

[ep_83]

I really really like the styling of the q50. I saw one yesterday pulling out of the grocery store and it's a damn good looking car. I'm a sucker for LED's (especially when they're standard). I never liked the G sedans, but always liked the coupes. This new Q50 sedan looks good though.

Btw I believe this is the second time the Lexus has beaten the F30 and and ATS. The first time was a comparison by C&D. It's the second time it's beaten the Q50. The first time was a motortrend Head to Head. I'd love to drive one. I don't want to judge because I have never driven the 350, but the previous gen 250 is one of the most boring cars I've ever driven, not to mention it was soooo slow. I'd like to see more 14's on the road to see if the styling is better appreciated by seeing the car live in action. I always thought Benz had the best looking car in the segment despite it being the oldest. I have a feeling the new one is going to look even better. I have to admit though, nothing beats an Estoril Blue 335i M-Sport. Simply gorgeous. Here's the IS350 FSport Q50s H2H if anyone is interested.

[drob23]

I actually see the Q50 trying to look like the mazda 6. I think the Mazda looks classier