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      04-17-2017, 01:17 AM   #1
37psi
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Cool 10" SQ recommendations?

After much deliberation a trunk sub was decided upon. A corner loaded enclosure me thinks.

Technics harness ordered.

Heard good things about the ID Max10 and JL w6...

Any other suggestions?

Seen a few amplified JL boxes for hill billy install. Micro sub? With an 8" w3v3 but don't think you can capitalise on cabin gain. Although it could be transferred to the next car... The BMW trunk is so well insulated. A ski pass or IB install is not my preferred option.

Thanks

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      04-17-2017, 11:21 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox View Post
Any other suggestions?
Yes, don't fall into the trap of focusing on a particular brand or speaker. A vehicle as a listening environment is a cascading series of transfer functions (or filters). A transfer function is the relationship between an input and an output. The raw driver is only one of those transfer functions. The vehicle cabin has a greater influence on the final sound than the raw driver. And the combination of the driver and the enclosure is ultimately more important than the driver on it's own. You need to consider all three - vehicle, enclosure, and driver - to properly design a system.

A quality driver is still important - the influence of the vehicle and enclosure are not going to make a crappy driver sound good, but the opposite is true - the best driver in the world can sound like crap if it isn't part of a system designed for the vehicle.

You can just buy a speaker and buy/build an an enclosure and throw it in the vehicle. Obviously you can do that - 99.9% of folks out there are doing exactly that. But your results are going to be a crap shoot unless you factor in the vehicle.

This article is old and greatly simplified (and I need to update it), and I've posted it many times, but if you haven't already read it take a look, it will probably be helpful: https://integralaudio.com/pub/media/...Design_opt.pdf

Quote:
With an 8" w3v3 but don't think you can capitalise on cabin gain.
"Cabin gain" is just one of those transfer functions listed above. It is fixed for a given vehicle, and it doesn't care about the particular speaker used. There are also an infinite number of "cabin gain" transfer functions for a given vehicle - because they are different between any two points in a vehicle.

Quote:
The BMW trunk is so well insulated.
It's counter-intuitive, but isn't. Below about 65Hz the rear seat backs become increasingly acoustically transparent.
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      04-17-2017, 11:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Integral Audio View Post
Yes, don't fall into the trap of focusing on a particular brand or speaker. A vehicle as a listening environment is a cascading series of transfer functions (or filters). A transfer function is the relationship between an input and an output. The raw driver is only one of those transfer functions. The vehicle cabin has a greater influence on the final sound than the raw driver. And the combination of the driver and the enclosure is ultimately more important than the driver on it's own. You need to consider all three - vehicle, enclosure, and driver - to properly design a system.

A quality driver is still important - the influence of the vehicle and enclosure are not going to make a crappy driver sound good, but the opposite is true - the best driver in the world can sound like crap if it isn't part of a system designed for the vehicle.

You can just buy a speaker and buy/build an an enclosure and throw it in the vehicle. Obviously you can do that - 99.9% of folks out there are doing exactly that. But your results are going to be a crap shoot unless you factor in the vehicle.

This article is old and greatly simplified (and I need to update it), and I've posted it many times, but if you haven't already read it take a look, it will probably be helpful: https://integralaudio.com/pub/media/...Design_opt.pdf


"Cabin gain" is just one of those transfer functions listed above. It is fixed for a given vehicle, and it doesn't care about the particular speaker used. There are also an infinite number of "cabin gain" transfer functions for a given vehicle - because they are different between any two points in a vehicle.


It's counter-intuitive, but isn't. Below about 65Hz the rear seat backs become increasingly acoustically transparent.
Awesome reply. Thanks for educating me.
I was thinking of sub at first because get one with low sensitivity and you'd have to push harder. A sub with 96db sensitivity and a range of 30-40,000 Hz would be more efficient and blends better than say 84db 40-30,000 Hz.

The sub is only as good as the enclosure. I once had a custom box for a JL 6w3v3 in a pathfinder cab and it rocked. It sounded and hit like a 10. Someone even thought it was two 10's. It was powered by a 600w old school amp which was almost triple the recommended power but the gains turned down.

The stealth boxes available to me are generic in size. They contain dampening material but it is still hard to calculate how much internal capacity is afforded by this.

Actually you're right because in my E92, I had one of the most basic JBL subs in a generic side mount enclosure and it sounded great. I didn't spend silly money on it. I even brought the JL slash 600/1 preloved from online. People were advising to get a more expensive JL or other brands... didn't need an upgrade as it was great.

This time in my 435d X Coupe, with all that space... I am thinking of a box build... MDF... firing toward the rear. It's an opportunity to get the box right and meet the sub specifications.

I have an SPL meter and mic. Didn't know about the software mentioned in the article so that is my starting place.

Thanks again.
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      06-07-2017, 11:35 PM   #4
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I have the 10" IDMax in a .65cft sealed box and I'm surprised at how low it can go in addition to sounding very musical.
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      06-17-2017, 04:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Integral Audio View Post
Yes, don't fall into the trap of focusing on a particular brand or speaker. A vehicle as a listening environment is a cascading series of transfer functions (or filters). A transfer function is the relationship between an input and an output. The raw driver is only one of those transfer functions. The vehicle cabin has a greater influence on the final sound than the raw driver. And the combination of the driver and the enclosure is ultimately more important than the driver on it's own. You need to consider all three - vehicle, enclosure, and driver - to properly design a system.

A quality driver is still important - the influence of the vehicle and enclosure are not going to make a crappy driver sound good, but the opposite is true - the best driver in the world can sound like crap if it isn't part of a system designed for the vehicle.

You can just buy a speaker and buy/build an an enclosure and throw it in the vehicle. Obviously you can do that - 99.9% of folks out there are doing exactly that. But your results are going to be a crap shoot unless you factor in the vehicle.

This article is old and greatly simplified (and I need to update it), and I've posted it many times, but if you haven't already read it take a look, it will probably be helpful: https://integralaudio.com/pub/media/...Design_opt.pdf


"Cabin gain" is just one of those transfer functions listed above. It is fixed for a given vehicle, and it doesn't care about the particular speaker used. There are also an infinite number of "cabin gain" transfer functions for a given vehicle - because they are different between any two points in a vehicle.


It's counter-intuitive, but isn't. Below about 65Hz the rear seat backs become increasingly acoustically transparent.
Amen.

Put in a custom AV System in a 2 seater Viper about 25 years ago. 16 or so speakers, 6 Amp Channels and about 3k watts, including 2 tweeters in Center AC vents. Sounded awesome with top down in the shop.

Picked it up, drove it out and returned in 2 minutes. All that incredible Bass disappeared with top down once the car was in motion.

Had to add in 2 more JL woofers to doors as well as 2 more amp channels, making 18 speakers and 4K watts out of 8 Amp Channels/4 Amps in trunk.

Only problem then was the Headlights would dim with the Bass, lol. Needed a bigger alternator.

But it showed the major difference in a 2 seater with top down vs rolling down the street.
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      06-23-2017, 07:29 PM   #6
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I use a Dayton audio shallow dvc 10 and compete pro iasca and usaci, and due very well. if I had money, it would be a jl audio 10. sub is glassed into the fishbowl in the trunk of my f30
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