Manual Vs Auto

rich100 · 04-07-2014, 03:21 PM

I've noticed on the BMW AUC site that almost all (if not all) the 328is and 335is seem to be autos.

I've always driven manual cars and to be perfectly honest think would prefer to stay with a manual if possible as and when I upgrade. I have no doubts that the 8speed auto is brilliant as no doubt many of you will testify to, I'm just not sure I want an automatic.

I suspect ill either go for another F31 or possibly a F32 next with 28 or 35 petrol engine, my question is if I specced this a manual would it be detrimental from a residual value point of view, put another way, does the market "expect" the more powerful variants to be specced as autos?

Tengocity · 04-07-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich100

I've noticed on the BMW AUC site that almost all (if not all) the 328is and 335is seem to be autos.

I've always driven manual cars and to be perfectly honest think would prefer to stay with a manual if possible as and when I upgrade. I have no doubts that the 8speed auto is brilliant as no doubt many of you will testify to, I'm just not sure I want an automatic.

I suspect ill either go for another F31 or possibly a F32 next with 28 or 35 petrol engine, my question is if I specced this a manual would it be detrimental from a residual value point of view, put another way, does the market "expect" the more powerful variants to be specced as autos?

Just curious... you say you think you'd prefer to stay manual- how come you're not absolutely sure?

I used to be an avowed manual only driver, but then my commute was constant stop start traffic. But even that aside, all the reasons I disliked autos have fallen by the wayside:

Economy was worse - now better
Made the cars slower - now autos are faster
Less control over gears - flappy paddles are instantaneous
Modern programming also means they 'learn' your driving style and adapt

Of course, there is pleasure to be had from the stick and clutch and a petrol motor, and if that's what you like and you actually get to drive roads where you can enjoy this, more than you spend in traffic then I'm jealous!

But yes, the bigger engined cars really now are expected to be autos, now that the autobox is such a good piece of kit. There will always be someone who wants to buy one secondhand. If you buy on a PCP you could ensure that you get a good MGFV so that the future resale is not your problem.

MRPoisson · 04-07-2014, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich100

I've noticed on the BMW AUC site that almost all (if not all) the 328is and 335is seem to be autos.

I've always driven manual cars and to be perfectly honest think would prefer to stay with a manual if possible as and when I upgrade. I have no doubts that the 8speed auto is brilliant as no doubt many of you will testify to, I'm just not sure I want an automatic.

I suspect ill either go for another F31 or possibly a F32 next with 28 or 35 petrol engine, my question is if I specced this a manual would it be detrimental from a residual value point of view, put another way, does the market "expect" the more powerful variants to be specced as autos?

I never thought Id own an auto but trust me you'll be auto forever once you've driven with the 8AT

Alkidrew · 04-07-2014, 04:18 PM

Pros and cons for both. 10 years ago auto was definately for Volvo drivers but they are now very good and not the slow clunky rubbish they use to be. I love manuals as you have total control of the gears and don't worry about residuals with a manual in a 3 series, might affect a 5 or 7 but 3 series is a drivers car so manual is still a good choice.

The new m3 has manual and auto as an option. That says it all.

I went for manual this time but will certainly give auto a go next time.

Neither are a bad choice.

....,,,,..,,.. · 04-07-2014, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRPoisson

I never thought Id own an auto but trust me you'll be auto forever once you've driven with the 8AT

This will be my first ever auto and 3rd diesel.

I read up on the 8AT and had a number of test drives in both 320d and 330d, was sold on it.

The speed of changing gears is sublime and like today sitting on M6 changing gears between 2 and 6th is a royal pain.

Next car is (if BMW sort themselves out) likely to be a 6 cyl petrol auto tourer.

johno · 04-07-2014, 04:50 PM

I was like you for 30 years, but really the ZF box is light years ahead of the old-style auto transmissions that I still have to suffer in rental cars when in the US.

I think it probably would be a bit harder to sell a manual, but equally there will be people who want one, and yours will be one of the few they can find. So if you really want a manual, go for it.

But first, do test drive the auto. I did, and - well, I picked up my 435i auto today. I was still a bit nervous about my decision, but driving home was enough to convince me I had made the right choice.

Matts435coupe · 04-07-2014, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johno

I was like you for 30 years, but really the ZF box is light years ahead of the old-style auto transmissions that I still have to suffer in rental cars when in the US.

I think it probably would be a but harder to sell a manual, but equally there will be people who want one, and yours will be one of the few they can find. So if you really want a manual, go for it.

But first, do test drive the auto. I did, and - well, I picked up my 435i auto today. I was still a bit nervous about my decision, but driving home was enough to convince me I had made the right choice.

I am about to take delivery of my second 435, first was stick. The car just didn't feel as quick as my 335is coupe I had before, for obvious reasons. I happened to test drive a 435 with the 8speed and was instantly hooked. It felt so much quicker, like a different car. Hopefully second time is a charm.

335dJa · 04-07-2014, 04:55 PM

I love a manual gear change as much as anyone but the rapid clicking up through the gears while your foot is hard pinned to the floor on the auto is a whole different addiction. If the f30 was a proper sports car I may feel a bit different, but it's not.

Proftinkerpot · 04-07-2014, 05:59 PM

It's been said above but drive a car with the 8 speed sport auto box and I think you will be sold on it. It's smooth and fast. It is the future and you get flappy paddles too.

Paulotheb · 04-08-2014, 12:14 AM

Love the 8AT. Sounds silly, but it almost feels like it only has one gear it's that smooth.

Personally, don't see the point of the paddles. I can't change as well as the machine, so why bother? Also, with a traditional manual, you really do feel like you're in control: clutch pedal, move the gear lever, clutch pedal. With the 8AT you don't and I just feel like I'm 'pretending' to change gear.

I love manuals and now I love autos (this being my first). But I think the paddles are a waste of time.

Captain Cow Pat · 04-08-2014, 01:17 AM

I'm now on my 5th Diesel and this is my first auto. I wanted to change to an auto as the traffic nowadays isn't going to get any lighter as time moves forwards. Quite the opposite in fact and I didn't fancy having to keep using the clutch to move forward only small amounts. The auto just takes the pain out of the modern drive. but it can still be fun when the roads are clear.

Pablo68 · 04-08-2014, 02:09 AM

335i with the ZF8AT is, for a family/business class saloon a lot of fun. Conversely it is just as pleasurable sitting in stop start traffic oddly.

rich100 · 04-08-2014, 02:20 AM

Thanks for all the responses guys, as always, informative and very interesting.

I suppose my reluctance to move from a manual is probably a pre conceived idea around losing the feel of connection with the car. Doesn't sound like that's really an issue for any of you so I suspect that concern is probably unfounded.

Probably need to drive an auto on an extended test drive to be sure.

dopper99 · 04-08-2014, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich100

Thanks for all the responses guys, as always, informative and very interesting.

I suppose my reluctance to move from a manual is probably a pre conceived idea around losing the feel of connection with the car. Doesn't sound like that's really an issue for any of you so I suspect that concern is probably unfounded.

Probably need to drive an auto on an extended test drive to be sure.

I too was a die hard manual driver. For my last car I'd have been happy with a second hand E90 330d but I could not find one anywhere in a manual - so had to order brand new as I wanted a manual so much.
But when it came to ordering the F30 335d, of course there is no choice....but I'm absolutely converted

. A few people have asked me what I think about it and I think it's fantastic, I've never looked back.

sunscreemer · 04-08-2014, 03:51 AM

I echo many of the points above. I'd always been a die hard manual fan and it was the opinions on here of many previous die hard manual fans who'd tried the 8AT that convinced me to take a look at it and it's one of the best decisions i've ever made.

Once you get used to it the paddles are superfluous as you can control the gearchange with a slight change in pressure on the throttle. It's so refined yet delightfully raw when you go into sport mode on car and auto box.

And of course, when you're stuck in traffic as i am all too often it's a far less tiring experience. It's now become pretty much a "must have" in future cars!

Rich9600 · 04-08-2014, 04:14 AM

I love changing gear, double de-clutching was always part of my daily drive. It came from getting the best out of small engines and sounded great when I got to bigger petrols. Loved the noise...

When I turned to the dark side of Diesel I found I was constantly changing gear in traffic or worse still riding the clutch... The move to auto was forced on me, again no manual option (330d). Though, once driven there was no looking back.

Eco Pro really suits slow traffic trundling, the box seems even smoother than in comfort at slow speeds. Comfort does just what it says. Relaxed touring and great for driving in normal flowing traffic. Smooth gear changes in normal running. Kick down is easily achieved for an overtake. Though, I usually either put it in sport or use paddles to preselect a gear to avoid the kick down. If paddles are used it reverts back to Drive after a few seconds or normal driving.

In sport mode the changes come smooth and quick, really great when accelerating. It just feels like endless power.

Manual boxes are rare on higher spec and larger engined cars. This was so even before the ZF8AT. Though, this box makes an even better reason for all cars being auto.

Due to the fuel/emissions advantages I can see the manual box completely disappearing from the premium luxury side. I think it will be the preserve of true sports cars and budget cars soon. Also, hybrids seem to be autos...

VonRat · 04-08-2014, 05:18 AM

After 30 years of driving, I've just bought my first automatic (8AT).

Trickle along in traffic in full auto or use the paddles for instant manual gear changes. The latter is good enough for F1 so the days of auto boxes not being associated with sport are surely numbered?

Torquein · 04-08-2014, 01:28 PM

I can't yet comment on the 8AT having only test drove so far (god I hate waiting!!) but having driven an auto for the last 3.5yrs I have had a manual loaner for the last 2 weeks and you REALLY notice the change going back, it's such a pain in traffic when you've become so used to the auto. I've also lost a bit of the finer clutch control so sometimes the gear changes are a bit snatchy as you just drop a bit of the old muscle memory. It's not like I can't drive a manual but it's just not as smooth as it once was, and I notice I'm driving a manual the whole journey. It's getting less and less like this as I drive the car for longer but I can't wait to get my new car and get back to that easier life

JustChris · 04-08-2014, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRPoisson

I never thought Id own an auto but trust me you'll be auto forever once you've driven with the 8AT

The ZF 8speed is awesome but I'm going back the other way to 6MT, much more involving, less performance and more emissions but hey ho. Both great transmissions.

Hunky Dory · 04-08-2014, 02:52 PM

My F31 is my first auto and I have to say its excellent. It's faster, more economical and more efficient all round than the combination of me and a manual shift, as well as being a fantastically judged piece of engineering.

That's not to say I prefer it to manual if I'm honest. There are occasions when I miss the manual, namely heel and toe situations whilst having a bit of a blast.

I knew this would be an issue when I went for the manual but reasoned the number if times I would be in those situations wouldn't be that often and when balanced against the advantages of the auto the other 95% of the time, the 8 speed was the better choice.

I was right. It's the better choice in every quantifiable way. I just don't find it as engaging as a manual when you're just after a bit of fun and feeling engaged is everything in those situations for me.

I realise this opinion is very much against received wisdom from most folk, not to mention the motoring press as far as I can tell, so have come to the conclusion I obviously don't know what I'm talking about!

zooberoo · 04-08-2014, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRPoisson

I never thought Id own an auto but trust me you'll be auto forever once you've driven with the 8AT

+1 The 8AT isn't perfect but it's miles better than the manual in the 135i IMO.

RichardJS · 04-08-2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunky Dory

That's not to say I prefer it to manual if I'm honest. There are occasions when I miss the manual, namely heel and toe situations whilst having a bit of a blast.

I knew this would be an issue when I went for the manual but reasoned the number if times I would be in those situations wouldn't be that often and when balanced against the advantages of the auto the other 95% of the time, the 8 speed was the better choice.

I was right. It's the better choice in every quantifiable way. I just don't find it as engaging as a manual when you're just after a bit of fun and feeling engaged is everything in those situations for me.

This is my feeling exactly. I've only had my first auto for a couple of weeks but I know that I'm always going to miss the manual for "spirited" drives down country lanes. But having said that, the Auto is fantastic for around town and on motorways and especially stop-start driving. The worst thing for me is when the auto decides to change down when accelerating out of a bend or roundabout. So I tried the manual change for the first time at the weekend. Didn't get off to a good start when I washed the windscreen instead of changing up

but once I'd found the paddles(!) it worked well - although as the engine is so quiet I find it tricky to be in the right gear without looking at the indicator and/or tachometer. Also, I'm getting into the habit of knocking from Drive into Sport as I come off a motorway down to a roundabout as I find that helps - then go back into D when I've left the roundabout.

04-07-2014, 03:21 PM	#1
rich100 Colonel 875 Rep 2,060 Posts Drives: F31 320i Xdrive msport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Manual Vs Auto I've noticed on the BMW AUC site that almost all (if not all) the 328is and 335is seem to be autos. I've always driven manual cars and to be perfectly honest think would prefer to stay with a manual if possible as and when I upgrade. I have no doubts that the 8speed auto is brilliant as no doubt many of you will testify to, I'm just not sure I want an automatic. I suspect ill either go for another F31 or possibly a F32 next with 28 or 35 petrol engine, my question is if I specced this a manual would it be detrimental from a residual value point of view, put another way, does the market "expect" the more powerful variants to be specced as autos?
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04-07-2014, 04:18 PM	#4
Alkidrew Captain 61 Rep 949 Posts Drives: F31 325d M Sport GS Join Date: May 2013 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	Pros and cons for both. 10 years ago auto was definately for Volvo drivers but they are now very good and not the slow clunky rubbish they use to be. I love manuals as you have total control of the gears and don't worry about residuals with a manual in a 3 series, might affect a 5 or 7 but 3 series is a drivers car so manual is still a good choice. The new m3 has manual and auto as an option. That says it all. I went for manual this time but will certainly give auto a go next time. Neither are a bad choice.
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04-07-2014, 04:50 PM	#6
johno Second Lieutenant 47 Rep 256 Posts Drives: G20 M340ix Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hampshire iTrader: (0)	I was like you for 30 years, but really the ZF box is light years ahead of the old-style auto transmissions that I still have to suffer in rental cars when in the US. I think it probably would be a bit harder to sell a manual, but equally there will be people who want one, and yours will be one of the few they can find. So if you really want a manual, go for it. But first, do test drive the auto. I did, and - well, I picked up my 435i auto today. I was still a bit nervous about my decision, but driving home was enough to convince me I had made the right choice. Last edited by johno; 04-07-2014 at 05:05 PM.. Reason: typo
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04-07-2014, 04:55 PM	#8
335dJa Captain 127 Rep 976 Posts Drives: Yes Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: No iTrader: (0)	I love a manual gear change as much as anyone but the rapid clicking up through the gears while your foot is hard pinned to the floor on the auto is a whole different addiction. If the f30 was a proper sports car I may feel a bit different, but it's not.
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04-07-2014, 05:59 PM	#9
Proftinkerpot Major 219 Rep 1,359 Posts Drives: F30 335d M Sport -Superman Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Belfast iTrader: (0)	It's been said above but drive a car with the 8 speed sport auto box and I think you will be sold on it. It's smooth and fast. It is the future and you get flappy paddles too.
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04-08-2014, 12:14 AM	#10
Paulotheb Enlisted Member 1 Rep 48 Posts Drives: 330D F31 M Sport Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Love the 8AT. Sounds silly, but it almost feels like it only has one gear it's that smooth. Personally, don't see the point of the paddles. I can't change as well as the machine, so why bother? Also, with a traditional manual, you really do feel like you're in control: clutch pedal, move the gear lever, clutch pedal. With the 8AT you don't and I just feel like I'm 'pretending' to change gear. I love manuals and now I love autos (this being my first). But I think the paddles are a waste of time.
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04-08-2014, 01:17 AM	#11
Captain Cow Pat Lieutenant 50 Rep 542 Posts Drives: VO F31 330d xDrive M Sport Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK iTrader: (0)	I'm now on my 5th Diesel and this is my first auto. I wanted to change to an auto as the traffic nowadays isn't going to get any lighter as time moves forwards. Quite the opposite in fact and I didn't fancy having to keep using the clutch to move forward only small amounts. The auto just takes the pain out of the modern drive. but it can still be fun when the roads are clear. __________________
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04-08-2014, 02:09 AM	#12
Pablo68 Left the building 185 Rep 1,608 Posts Drives: Not a diesel. Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Petrol Heaven iTrader: (0)	335i with the ZF8AT is, for a family/business class saloon a lot of fun. Conversely it is just as pleasurable sitting in stop start traffic oddly.
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04-08-2014, 02:20 AM	#13
rich100 Colonel 875 Rep 2,060 Posts Drives: F31 320i Xdrive msport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Thanks for all the responses guys, as always, informative and very interesting. I suppose my reluctance to move from a manual is probably a pre conceived idea around losing the feel of connection with the car. Doesn't sound like that's really an issue for any of you so I suspect that concern is probably unfounded. Probably need to drive an auto on an extended test drive to be sure.
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04-08-2014, 03:51 AM	#15
sunscreemer Captain 35 Rep 715 Posts Drives: 320i xDrive M Sport Saloon Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: East Midlands, UK iTrader: (0)	I echo many of the points above. I'd always been a die hard manual fan and it was the opinions on here of many previous die hard manual fans who'd tried the 8AT that convinced me to take a look at it and it's one of the best decisions i've ever made. Once you get used to it the paddles are superfluous as you can control the gearchange with a slight change in pressure on the throttle. It's so refined yet delightfully raw when you go into sport mode on car and auto box. And of course, when you're stuck in traffic as i am all too often it's a far less tiring experience. It's now become pretty much a "must have" in future cars!
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04-08-2014, 04:14 AM	#16
Rich9600 Colonel 741 Rep 2,511 Posts Drives: i4 M50 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I love changing gear, double de-clutching was always part of my daily drive. It came from getting the best out of small engines and sounded great when I got to bigger petrols. Loved the noise... When I turned to the dark side of Diesel I found I was constantly changing gear in traffic or worse still riding the clutch... The move to auto was forced on me, again no manual option (330d). Though, once driven there was no looking back. Eco Pro really suits slow traffic trundling, the box seems even smoother than in comfort at slow speeds. Comfort does just what it says. Relaxed touring and great for driving in normal flowing traffic. Smooth gear changes in normal running. Kick down is easily achieved for an overtake. Though, I usually either put it in sport or use paddles to preselect a gear to avoid the kick down. If paddles are used it reverts back to Drive after a few seconds or normal driving. In sport mode the changes come smooth and quick, really great when accelerating. It just feels like endless power. Manual boxes are rare on higher spec and larger engined cars. This was so even before the ZF8AT. Though, this box makes an even better reason for all cars being auto. Due to the fuel/emissions advantages I can see the manual box completely disappearing from the premium luxury side. I think it will be the preserve of true sports cars and budget cars soon. Also, hybrids seem to be autos... __________________ Driving i4 M50 (G26) Previous 340i Touring MSport (F31)
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04-08-2014, 05:18 AM	#17
VonRat Private 2 Rep 97 Posts Drives: F31 330d M Sport Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Kent iTrader: (0)	After 30 years of driving, I've just bought my first automatic (8AT). Trickle along in traffic in full auto or use the paddles for instant manual gear changes. The latter is good enough for F1 so the days of auto boxes not being associated with sport are surely numbered?
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04-08-2014, 01:28 PM	#18
Torquein Captain 27 Rep 647 Posts Drives: F30 330d M Sport sdrive Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Planet Earth iTrader: (0)	I can't yet comment on the 8AT having only test drove so far (god I hate waiting!!) but having driven an auto for the last 3.5yrs I have had a manual loaner for the last 2 weeks and you REALLY notice the change going back, it's such a pain in traffic when you've become so used to the auto. I've also lost a bit of the finer clutch control so sometimes the gear changes are a bit snatchy as you just drop a bit of the old muscle memory. It's not like I can't drive a manual but it's just not as smooth as it once was, and I notice I'm driving a manual the whole journey. It's getting less and less like this as I drive the car for longer but I can't wait to get my new car and get back to that easier life __________________ ____________________ F30 330d M Sport sdrive + adaptive suspension
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04-08-2014, 02:52 PM	#20
Hunky Dory Private 7 Rep 61 Posts Drives: F31 340i Touring M Sport Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: No iTrader: (0)	My F31 is my first auto and I have to say its excellent. It's faster, more economical and more efficient all round than the combination of me and a manual shift, as well as being a fantastically judged piece of engineering. That's not to say I prefer it to manual if I'm honest. There are occasions when I miss the manual, namely heel and toe situations whilst having a bit of a blast. I knew this would be an issue when I went for the manual but reasoned the number if times I would be in those situations wouldn't be that often and when balanced against the advantages of the auto the other 95% of the time, the 8 speed was the better choice. I was right. It's the better choice in every quantifiable way. I just don't find it as engaging as a manual when you're just after a bit of fun and feeling engaged is everything in those situations for me. I realise this opinion is very much against received wisdom from most folk, not to mention the motoring press as far as I can tell, so have come to the conclusion I obviously don't know what I'm talking about!
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