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      02-03-2013, 09:45 AM   #23
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Or, maybe the reason for lower January sales is that BMW ran big incentives through December across their model line. Which accelerated sales into the end of the year. It certainly was a factor in my buying the wife a new 535i X Drive in December, so I could save a few K.

...or maybe you guys are right, and BMW just stopped making great cars as of January 1st. Yeah...that's probably it.
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      02-03-2013, 11:09 AM   #24
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Most of the other car makers saw a bigger bump in January, especially MB and Lexus.
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      02-03-2013, 11:21 AM   #25
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The health of BMW consumer pull cannot be measured in a month on month comparison....

Simple shifting of competitive promotions or their own promotional $$'s and new product launches will cause month to month deltas...

All I see in the data is X sales were up big in Jan...Wonder if it had anything to do with weather and rebate offers
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      02-03-2013, 11:30 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako
"Audi and Lexus"

Lexus? LOL, maybe if you want a very nice Camry.

Audi is still very far behind in sales and will never catch up until they get competitive on leases, Mercedes had huge incentives in January.

Anyone see the ATS numbers?
The GS is getting some good reviews. A friend of mine bought one and compares it favorably to his old Fiver. They actually handle pretty well. Their recent stuff is getting closer to sporty while BMW is heading in the other direction.

Backlash from the December push could also be a factor, but wouldn't that have also affected the SAVs?
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      02-03-2013, 11:42 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Convicted
Or, maybe the reason for lower January sales is that BMW ran big incentives through December across their model line. Which accelerated sales into the end of the year. It certainly was a factor in my buying the wife a new 535i X Drive in December, so I could save a few K.

...or maybe you guys are right, and BMW just stopped making great cars as of January 1st. Yeah...that's probably it.
No doubt. So many haters in this thread.
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      02-03-2013, 03:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako
"Audi and Lexus"

Lexus? LOL, maybe if you want a very nice Camry.

Audi is still very far behind in sales and will never catch up until they get competitive on leases, Mercedes had huge incentives in January.

Anyone see the ATS numbers?
I think your mistaken. People go to Lexus because the car is more dependable and durable. Our last Lexus had over 200k miles when I sold it and only maintenance I did was oil changes. My X5 has now cost me over $7k in repairs since the warranty expired last year.

I recently looked at the LX ($80k range) and GX ($68k) range as a replacement for my X5.

If you think people go with Lexus because it cheaper than you are very mistaken. I also don't think that just because you drive a BMW you have made it in life. I could care less what other people think.
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      02-03-2013, 05:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3
With the introduction of the F30,the 3 series is officially an old man car now.
For someone in his 20's, the 1 series will be more age appropriate.
Good lord. How old are you?
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      02-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest X6 View Post
All I see in the data is X sales were up big in Jan...Wonder if it had anything to do with weather and rebate offers
so you don't notice that the 1,3,5,7 series sales are all down about 30%?

And it's not the weather, as this is comparing sales of this jan to last jan
Which was also winter

When sales of the newly released 3 series are down compared to last year, when it was the dying days of the e90
Something is not right
And since BMW makes more money on the 3 series than anything else
30% less sales is a serious problem
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      02-03-2013, 08:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Convicted View Post
Or, maybe the reason for lower January sales is that BMW ran big incentives through December across their model line. Which accelerated sales into the end of the year. It certainly was a factor in my buying the wife a new 535i X Drive in December, so I could save a few K.

...or maybe you guys are right, and BMW just stopped making great cars as of January 1st. Yeah...that's probably it.
The F30 is amazing....haha
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      02-03-2013, 09:28 PM   #32
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At least Lexus offer a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine. They also have superior non-Runflat tyres!

With the larger and softer 3 series, I personally think BMW have lost their edge and gradually their reputation is being eroded. That's my opinion!
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      02-04-2013, 05:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWs&politics
There are extensive surveys that concur with my opinion. I can send links to the studies if anybody wants to see them. Some of them were done by Lexus oddly enough.
I'm pretty keen to see those studies. Very interested in the avg consumer mentality on luxury cars.
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      02-04-2013, 07:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
"Audi and Lexus"

Lexus? LOL, maybe if you want a very nice Camry.

Audi is still very far behind in sales and will never catch up until they get competitive on leases, Mercedes had huge incentives in January.

Anyone see the ATS numbers?
ATS sold 2,781 in January.
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      02-04-2013, 07:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by midlifecrisis View Post
The fact of the matter is that for the past dozen or more years almost every other premium car company has been chasing BMW's benchmark - the definition of sport sedan - and many of them are catching up quickly. Audi and Lexus come to mind.

At the same time, some people are starting to wonder whether BMW has lost its edge or if they've started valuing luxury over sportiness, which lessens their unique image as a builder of sport sedans.

Back in the good old days, you'd climb into a 3 series, fire it up, drive it away, and be delighted with the athletic responses of the chassis, steering, and brakes. It was a sports car with 4 doors - right out of the box.

Today, if you climb into a F30 and you want to drive a sport sedan you have to push an extra button to find the sports car hidden inside. Even then, the combination of run flats, electric steering, and other factors dull the sport sedan experience. Is this a case of too many focus groups and not having the confidence that the characteristics which defined the brand will carry it to the next level? If so, too bad. Bring back the car nuts that knew what they wanted and built it!

BMW's new powertrains are brilliant. As far as I'm concerned, its too bad the rest of the car has lost the sporty feel that defined BMW. I hope the upcoming M3 addresses these issues - but I'm getting ready to have a plan B.
You are correct, one of the reasons BMW became the "it" brand, was that they really did build nothing but Ultimate Driving Machines at one time and they were definitely "the" brand for enthusiasts.

Every car rag loved and drooled over BMW and they won all the comparos. Being an "enthusiast brand" and loved by the media, is what drove the sales, so all the plebeians and unwashed knew it was the "it" brand and everyone wanted to be seen driving a BMW. When a company stops being true to their brand, start alienating enthusiasts, stops winning comparos and diluting their image, they head down a slippery slope towards being "just another car brand".

So all the concerns about the drop in sales and the direction of the new models (i.e. FWD models coming) are definitely justified.
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      02-04-2013, 10:48 AM   #36
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It is also possible that the new (to US market) 320i to improve the sales of 3 series.
Mercedes has 3 petrol engines available...
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      02-04-2013, 10:58 AM   #37
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For the first time I went to a BMW dealership and looked at a new 3 series and said er no thanks.
I fell in love with the E46 (and at the time it had the nicest interior in the segment ), E90,E92 when they came out ...the F30 looks boring.

BMW turned me into a hater.
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      02-05-2013, 12:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01
At least Lexus offer a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine. They also have superior non-Runflat tyres!

With the larger and softer 3 series, I personally think BMW have lost their edge and gradually their reputation is being eroded. That's my opinion!
I tend to agree. One of the things I love about my e92 is its braking ability...actually kept me out of an accident today when someone not paying attention cut me off. But the current 3 is losing on braking in almost every comparo. How can you have poor braking and call yourself the ultimate driving machine? I'm not too keen on the narrow tires and the enlarged front end either. That line across the hood looks cheap.
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