[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by Technic

I sell the F30 HiFi harness, please use PM for details.

Any recommendations in the SoFla area for installers? I see you're in FLL, I'm in Hollywood, FL.

TIA

[Technic]

Originally Posted by uberspeed

Any recommendations in the SoFla area for installers? I see you're in FLL, I'm in Hollywood, FL.

TIA

I do local PnP installs with my harnesses; no custom fabrications though. Please PM for details.

[davethefish]

Originally Posted by Technic

It is not so much that those installs were wrong, they were just improper for the OEM specifications of the HiFi system.

The F30 OEM HiFi system specs are quite basic:

- iDrive outputs (4) balanced/differential, low level, 5V, flat-response, analog signals

Therefore the OEM amp can be directly replaced by any 6- or 7-channel balanced-inputs aftermarket amp.

Hi,
i was wondering if the UK base stereo HU has the same balanced differential outputs?

i'm looking to replace the front speakers (components for the doors, and subs for under the seats) and add a 4 channel amp.

but as the speakers are connected direct to the HU is this a speaker level output?
and as such wouldn't absolutley need a balanced differential input amp like the JL Audio slash series?

would an audio processor then be needed to off set the HU's equalizer settings. or would trimmimg the component speaker crossovers be enough?

[Technic]

If your system is Stereo (6 speakers, no OEM amp) then your iDrive outputs high/speaker level signals. Those signals are 25W at 2ohm or 7V max.

Most aftermarket amps with high level inputs accept about 7-8V on average. Therefore, no external line output converters are required if selected aftermarket amp can accept 7V or more in its high level inputs.

The Stereo output signal has two particular characteristics:

- it is heavily EQ to compensate for the lack of tweeters.
- front outputs are full range, rear outputs are high passed.

To reverse that signal EQ either a DSP with signal correction or front passive crossovers with tweeter level attenuation are required.

If all 4 iDrive outputs are required to be full range then a DSP with signal summing is required.

If the idea is to have the easiest to interface and best analog signal output possible then iDrive can be coded to HiFi and then all the outputs will be low level, balanced, flat signals. No DSP correction, no summing, no crossover with adjustable tweeter level are required. However, aftermarket amp/DSP must accept balanced input signals.

Originally Posted by davethefish

Hi,
i was wondering if the UK base stereo HU has the same balanced differential outputs?

i'm looking to replace the front speakers (components for the doors, and subs for under the seats) and add a 4 channel amp.

but as the speakers are connected direct to the HU is this a speaker level output?
and as such wouldn't absolutley need a balanced differential input amp like the JL Audio slash series?

would an audio processor then be needed to off set the HU's equalizer settings. or would trimmimg the component speaker crossovers be enough?

[davethefish]

Originally Posted by Technic

If your system is Stereo (6 speakers, no OEM amp) then your iDrive outputs high/speaker level signals. Those signals are 25W at 2ohm or 7V max.

Most aftermarket amps with high level inputs accept about 7-8V on average. Therefore, no external line output converters are required if selected aftermarket amp can accept 7V or more in its high level inputs.

The Stereo output signal has two particular characteristics:

- it is heavily EQ to compensate for the lack of tweeters.
- front outputs are full range, rear outputs are high passed.

To reverse that signal EQ either a DSP with signal correction or front passive crossovers with tweeter level attenuation are required.

If all 4 iDrive outputs are required to be full range then a DSP with signal summing is required.

If the idea is to have the easiest to interface and best analog signal output possible then iDrive can be coded to HiFi and then all the outputs will be low level, balanced, flat signals. No DSP correction, no summing, no crossover with adjustable tweeter level are required. However, aftermarket amp/DSP must accept balanced input signals.

thanks very much Technic
that answers just about every question i have pondered during about a weeks worth of searching the internet and forums trying to understand the BMW audio upgrade path.
(most of which were your posts!)

1 small query though,
on the UK forum we can't find any information on the F30 base stereo HU that has idrive, but no navigation.
and were concerned that the output might be 4 x 15w per channel at 4 ohms.
and that the front door speaker has a capacitor the same spec as the 'radio' in the E90's HU from the information below,

or if the HU's output is the same as 'CCC' as you say 25w at 2 ohms with no capacitor?

the reason i ask is, would it be feasible to just swap out the front door speakers for component speakers without an amp, to give a very small improvement.
as it is thought by just swapping out the door speakers on the 15w channel could overload the HU as the impedance could then be in a 'critical range'?

[Joe Huh]

Removing center for using 5~6ch amp, would be good enough to make stage or need a DSP?

[speed608]

Sorry to hijack this thread but the discussions are very relevant to a problem i have.I also have a base UK setup audio system in my F30 and have already done the bulk of the changes, but i have run into a problem where i am getting a high pitched line noise from my fronts and also hissing noise even when i switch or the radio.My setup is as below to better understand what i have done

HU Base iDrive with no USB or Bluetooth
Ground Zero 4" Components front
Ground Zero 8" Under seat woofers
Alpine PHA-H600 Processor
Alpine MRV-M300 Amp

Yet to Be added after i resolve the issues

Alpine 10" sub in fiberglass enclosure to the left rear fender
Alpine MRV-M500 to power the sub

So i have my full range L+R input going to a LOC which then feeds the Alpine processor through the RCA which in then splits the signals for front Components and i have used the rear channel on the processor to feed the Under seat woofers so that way i can control the different crossover frequencies going to the speakers.I have checked all the earth points and all look good but still getting the high pitched scratchy noise which is worse with engine running .I have also tried bypassing the processor and still getting the same noise from the front components.But if i reduce the gain on the Components from the amp the noise goes away but then they are too low .My other issue is the hissing which is constant as soon as you open the doors .

So could someone please advise what i may be doing wrong or could it be that i have a faulty hardware somewhere in line.

Lastly forgot to mention i used the switched power from the back of the HU to the LOC which in turn feeds a remote trigger to the processor and Amp.Also the high pitch noise does not change in pitch as you rev the engine.

So someone please help as i am baffled and don't want to go back to the poor sound from the head unit.

[speed608]

Originally Posted by Technic

It is not so much that those installs were wrong, they were just improper for the OEM specifications of the HiFi system.

The F30 OEM HiFi system specs are quite basic:

- iDrive outputs (4) balanced/differential, low level, 5V, flat-response, analog signals
- OEM amp takes those (4) balanced analog signals as inputs and output 7 channels of high level signals: 5 x 25W (mid and tweeters in parallel) and 2 x 40W (woofers) max
- OEM amp has built-in DSP

Therefore the OEM amp can be directly replaced by any 6- or 7-channel balanced-inputs aftermarket amp. The direct and easiest aftermarket amps to install in any F30/32/80/82/10 are the JL Audio XD600/6 (removes center speaker) and the XD800/8 (keeps center speaker). These amps can take 4 inputs and create up to 8ch outputs, either by just flipping a switch (XD600/6) or by using RCA splitters.

One thing to consider: the OEM amp built-in DSP is there for a reason: to compensate for mediocre OEM speakers. Aftermarket amps without DSP may only increase the awareness of how mediocre the OEM speakers are. May or may not, as sometimes loudness is only what some customers think as audio quality.

Because the iDrive outputs are flat in response then there is no need for any correcting-signal device before aftermarket amps or DSP. No need of any de-EQ procedure, no need of any Cleansweep. Just iDrive outputs connected directly to amps or DSP.

Nevertheless, the same balanced signal requirements apply to aftermarket DSP. The Alpine PXA-H800, the Helix DSP, the JBL MS-8 for example, all can accept balanced-inputs directly.

If your equipment that you got cannot accept balanced-signals then no problem: use an Audiocontrol Matrix in between the iDrive and your equipment. The Matrix is a line driver and a balanced to unbalanced converter. Notice something, it will take a low level signal and will convert it into a low level signal but just unbalanced. No signal degradation; actually, being a line driver it can make the unbalanced signal output stronger. No need to be messing around with the aftermarket amps gains, increasing noise and hiss.

This is fundamentally what anybody needs to know before upgrading the OEM HiFi system. Anything else is just improper.

Hi Technic sorry to hijack this thread but the discussions are very relevant to a problem i have.I also have a base UK setup audio system in my F30 and have already done the bulk of the changes, but i have run into a problem where i am getting a high pitched line noise from my fronts and also hissing noise even when i switch off the radio.My setup is as below to better understand what i have done

HU Base iDrive with no USB or Bluetooth
Ground Zero 4" Components front
Ground Zero 8" Under seat woofers
Alpine PHA-H600 Processor
Alpine MRV-M300 Amp

Yet to Be added after i resolve the issues

Alpine 10" sub in fiberglass enclosure to the left rear fender
Alpine MRV-M500 to power the sub

So i have my full range L+R input going to a LOC which then feeds the Alpine processor through the RCA which in then splits the signals for front Components and i have used the rear channel on the processor to feed the Under seat woofers so that way i can control the different crossover frequencies going to the speakers.I have checked all the earth points and all look good but still getting the high pitched scratchy noise which is worse with engine running .I have also tried bypassing the processor and still getting the same noise from the front components.But if i reduce the gain on the Components from the amp the noise goes away but then they are too low .My other issue is the hissing which is constant as soon as you open the doors .

So could someone please advise what i may be doing wrong or could it be that i have a faulty hardware somewhere in line.

Lastly forgot to mention i used the switched power from the back of the HU to the LOC which in turn feeds a remote trigger to the processor and Amp.Also the high pitch noise does not change in pitch as you rev the engine.

So could you please help as i am baffled and don't want to go back to the poor sound from the head unit and scratch this whole project.

[bri1042]

Sounds like the amp doesn't like the balanced inputs to me. What are you using as an LOC?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Sounds like the amp doesn't like the balanced inputs to me. What are you using as an LOC?

That system is not HiFi, it is Stereo (no OEM amp, 6-speakers, no longer available in the USA).

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Technic

That system is not HiFi, it is Stereo (no OEM amp, 6-speakers, no longer available in the USA).

Figured...I tried that Alpine amp in my e90 with the evil "stereo" and had the same problem he's having. I assumed it was the balanced inputs not working with the mrv amp.

[speed608]

Originally Posted by Technic

That system is not HiFi, it is Stereo (no OEM amp, 6-speakers, no longer available in the USA).

So any thoughts on what the problem could be, as for the LOC I'm using a standard in line LOC made by company called Referance Audio.But I have just placed an order for an Audio Control EQX to substitute the LOC and also replace the Alpine processor.

Do you think the EQX will be a better bet , I will also be upgrading the HU with an NBT from Bimmertech and have asked Patryk to assist with coding from stereo to HiFi .

[Technic]

Originally Posted by speed608

So any thoughts on what the problem could be, as for the LOC I'm using a standard in line LOC made by company called Referance Audio.But I have just placed an order for an Audio Control EQX to substitute the LOC and also replace the Alpine processor.

Do you think the EQX will be a better bet , I will also be upgrading the HU with an NBT from Bimmertech and have asked Patryk to assist with coding from stereo to HiFi .

I have no idea.

You should create your own thread... this is a HiFi thread.

[CntryClub007]

Hi,

New to the forum. Nice thread.

Wanted to see if you were able to complete the BavSound speaker install? Are they worth it? Wasn't sure if you installed the BavSound speakers with the factory amp?

Also - For MY2015, does anyone know if the 320i and 328i have a different USA base/Hi-Fi system or are they the same system? I'm trying to figure out exactly what comes with the 320i standard USA Hi-Fi system. The car would have the upgraded iDrive 4.2 NAV system.

Not sure if the 320i USA Hi-Fi comes with:
-7 Channel Amplifier
-Front Tweeters, Front Door Speakers
-Center Channel
-Rear Door Speakers
-Under-the-seat Subwoofers

I'm not looking to wake the neighbors, I'm just looking for a slight improvement and would prefer to leave the factory amp in with BavSound speakers or a plug-n-play amp with the BavSound speakers.

It appears that Technic, you recommend the MS-8 by JBL? Would those work with the BavSound speakers also? I essentially want this thing to be completely plug and play without hacking up a bunch of wires.

Thanks all!

[bri1042]

They should be the same. What you should do for a "slight improvement" is a question that will get you three answers: 1. Replace the amp with Technic's harness, removing the odd equalization that the stock HiFi amp has and giving you more power. 2. Drop in speakers from Bavsound or something similar. 3. Do both.

It depends on what you want to spend, what you are comfortable doing yourself, and/or where you are in regards to finding someone who can do it for you without messing stuff up.

You might consider starting your own thread with more details in regards to your goals and resources for the upgrade.

[MulattoMajor]

Originally Posted by Technic

Therefore the OEM amp can be directly replaced by any 6- or 7-channel balanced-inputs aftermarket amp. The direct and easiest aftermarket amps to install in any F30/32/80/82/10 are the JL Audio XD600/6 (removes center speaker) and the XD800/8 (keeps center speaker). These amps can take 4 inputs and create up to 8ch outputs, either by just flipping a switch (XD600/6) or by using RCA splitters.

One thing to consider: the OEM amp built-in DSP is there for a reason: to compensate for mediocre OEM speakers. Aftermarket amps without DSP may only increase the awareness of how mediocre the OEM speakers are. May or may not, as sometimes loudness is only what some customers think as audio quality.

Because the iDrive outputs are flat in response then there is no need for any correcting-signal device before aftermarket amps or DSP. No need of any de-EQ procedure, no need of any Cleansweep. Just iDrive outputs connected directly to amps or DSP.

Nevertheless, the same balanced signal requirements apply to aftermarket DSP. The Alpine PXA-H800, the Helix DSP, the JBL MS-8 for example, all can accept balanced-inputs directly.

If your equipment that you got cannot accept balanced-signals then no problem: use an Audiocontrol Matrix in between the iDrive and your equipment. The Matrix is a line driver and a balanced to unbalanced converter. Notice something, it will take a low level signal and will convert it into a low level signal but just unbalanced. No signal degradation; actually, being a line driver it can make the unbalanced signal output stronger. No need to be messing around with the aftermarket amps gains, increasing noise and hiss.

This is fundamentally what anybody needs to know before upgrading the OEM HiFi system. Anything else is just improper.

I apologize I'm not as savvy with what you're saying but I have a question. My question is are you saying that I can purchase a harness from you and run the JL XD 800 with factory or aftermarket speakers? Will I also need a DSP with said set up? Thank you for your time. Is there a thread with more laymen's terms? I just want better sound and sound quality.

[bcornwellatl]

Originally Posted by MulattoMajor

I apologize I'm not as savvy with what you're saying but I have a question. My question is are you saying that I can purchase a harness from you and run the JL XD 800 with factory or aftermarket speakers? Will I also need a DSP with said set up? Thank you for your time. Is there a thread with more laymen's terms? I just want better sound and sound quality.

Kind of second this question... Also since Bluetooth phone uses the center speaker, the jbl 8 channel would keep that speaker active, and the dsp would keep the amplification from blowing the speaker, right? How much of a batch is it to install both? The dsp is huge !!!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by MulattoMajor

I apologize I'm not as savvy with what you're saying but I have a question. My question is are you saying that I can purchase a harness from you and run the JL XD 800 with factory or aftermarket speakers? Will I also need a DSP with said set up? Thank you for your time. Is there a thread with more laymen's terms? I just want better sound and sound quality.

This is the install of a XD600/6 in an F30 in 6 steps:

1) Wire HiFi harness to XD600/6 (Front CH1/2 at 175Hz HP, Rear CH3/4 at 175Hz HP, Woofers CH5/6 at 175Hz LP, Input mode to 4CH):



2) Remove OEM amp:



3) Ground connection:



4) XD6000/6 with pre-installed HiFi harness plugged into OEM amp harness:



5) Connect to battery (most F30 lack available distribution block slots):



6) Put trunk back to OEM and enjoy...

[Technic]

Originally Posted by bcornwellatl

Kind of second this question... Also since Bluetooth phone uses the center speaker, the jbl 8 channel would keep that speaker active, and the dsp would keep the amplification from blowing the speaker, right? How much of a batch is it to install both? The dsp is huge !!!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1001114 -disregard center speaker install.

[MulattoMajor]

Thank you for your response. Do you have any recommendations and or recommended sizes as far as fitment for replacement speakers? If I'm upgrading the amp I'd like to upgrade the door speakers as well. Thank you for your time again.

[CntryClub007]

Originally Posted by bri1042

They should be the same. What you should do for a "slight improvement" is a question that will get you three answers: 1. Replace the amp with Technic's harness, removing the odd equalization that the stock HiFi amp has and giving you more power. 2. Drop in speakers from Bavsound or something similar. 3. Do both.

It depends on what you want to spend, what you are comfortable doing yourself, and/or where you are in regards to finding someone who can do it for you without messing stuff up.

You might consider starting your own thread with more details in regards to your goals and resources for the upgrade.

Thanks bri1042. If I were to go with option 3, would you recommend a DSP, such as the JBL MS-8 or another amplifier? Also, do you know if I would run into any Bluetooth problems using either? Specifically thinking for the center channel (which is included with the BavSound kit). Need that to work for the wife!

Originally Posted by Technic

This is the install of a XD600/6 in an F30 in 6 steps:

1) Wire HiFi harness to XD600/6 (Front CH1/2 at 175Hz HP, Rear CH3/4 at 175Hz HP, Woofers CH5/6 at 175Hz LP, Input mode to 4CH):

2) Remove OEM amp:

3) Ground connection:

4) XD6000/6 with pre-installed HiFi harness plugged into OEM amp harness:

5) Connect to battery (most F30 lack available distribution block slots):

6) Put trunk back to OEM and enjoy...

Technic - Similar questions, on the base 320i Hi-Fi system, would you recommend the JBL MS-8 or the XD600/6 or XD800/8? It appears the 800 keeps the center channel? The BavSound speaker kit also comes with a center channel. Also, don't want any Bluetooth problems. One of these amps/DSP's would be used in conjunction with the BavSound Stage 1. Just got those ordered up.

I would also be considering some new underseat woofers, either the Earthquake or Gladen, any thoughts on these?

Would the MS-8 work OK to power the under seat subs? I would prefer to not have multiple DSP's / amps (ie one for speakers and one for subs). I wouldn't be adding a sub box in the future. I'm going for nice, tight base, good quality, but also replacing all speakers/subs.

Would also like to control the EQ(bass, treble, fade, etc...) from the standard HU, once again, easy for the wife without added complexity. I see that JL also makes a cleansweep unit, however if the MS-8 also does this in a better fashion, I'm open to that option.

Just need the best solution to keep everything as factory as possible, but sound great. Essentially, wife approved, ha.

[bri1042]

If you already bought the BSW's, the JL route is the simplest way to go. A DSP will be more complicated unless you are familiar with setting them up. I know MusicarNW sells a couple of them pre-configured, but I don't know if they have done a base setup with BSW's on the MS-8 or the Helix's that they use. To be sure, you may want to email them off of their website. MusicarNW's folk and Technic are the voices of sanity in the crazy BMW-audio world and they won't steer you wrong. If I had realized that before I started futzing with my e90, I would have saved myself a lot of headaches.

I have run my system for significant amounts of time without the center channel connected and it has zero effect on the bluetooth phone features. I've seen this question a few times and I'm not sure how it got to be a popular thought, but the center channel is NOT necessary for you to make phone calls. The Speaker is just Left plus Right squished together, so all the sounds it makes will come out of other speakers. Center delete or Center retain is an argument each of us has to have with ourselves, but either way we still get to make phone calls while stuck in traffic.