Taking the plunge with ACS springs

NISFAN · 08-22-2014, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozwol

The salesman i dealt with was new and had no idea about the adaptive, He did me a cracking deal though so all is forgiven.

From what i can gather a car without adaptive but with acs springs is a fair bit better than an adaptive car on stock springs. So, if anyone has the non adaptive on order and is concerned then for £600 it can be 'fixed'.

I wouldn't be concerned in any case, I don't rate adaptive one bit. The first F30 I had I specced adaptive, glad I got rid for the second one.

dopper99 · 08-22-2014, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I wouldn't be concerned in any case, I don't rate adaptive one bit. The first F30 I had I specced adaptive, glad I got rid for the second one.

Just a thought Nisfan, have you ever tried another F30 with adaptive? Maybe yours had an issue? As said time and time again, no-one else has problems with it.

MarkWoods · 08-22-2014, 03:28 PM

[QUOTE=JD6;16511279]The dealer really should have told you this.
I suppose I could go see the salesman and put the squeeze on for a few quid off. I do however have an ex BMW specialist to approach next, just concerned non BMW fitting might invalidate the warranty?

NISFAN · 08-22-2014, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopper99

Just a thought Nisfan, have you ever tried another F30 with adaptive? Maybe yours had an issue? As said time and time again, no-one else has problems with it.

Can't say I have tried another adaptive F30.

I don't believe there was anything wrong with mine, it firmed up as it should have done, and did give some weird 'synthetic' feel to the damper dynamics....but ultimately......cranking bump/rebound up or down on a particular spring rate (a very progressive one at that) does not a sweet setup make. That is why the ACS Springs are such a success, I would bet on them having a less progressive nature than stock, and stiff enough to match the damper settings.

As for others not having problems with it, maybe they don't know any different? Don't drive in a manner that shows the system up? Are just blonkerered in their buying choice?

Tengocity · 08-22-2014, 04:19 PM

Nisfan, how would adapting the damper rates electronically on the fly via adaptive be any different to say a coilover kit (eg. KW v3 or ACS RS kit) where you can change the compression and rebound, when the spring itself must still have the same spring rate? Or does that change when you change the ride height as well?

I've read it before that ideally there is a perfect matched damper setting for any given spring rate, on a certain car, and that adjustability is not needed, or certainly over-rated. May have been Kevin Bird, explaining why his B3 kit wasn't adjustable though!

MarkG_M5Comp · 08-22-2014, 04:24 PM

I rate my adaptive with ACS springs as excellent with the ideal balance of comfort with possibility of stiffness and control.

I was getting tired of the bounce before they were fitted and would spend more time considering this before purchase next time - which also makes me doubt a 5 series for the next car. I think I was blinded by the available power and didn't spend long enough debating the suspension. Funny thing is, I remember saying to the sales guy after my all-day test drive 'it doesn't handle as well as my E92 but goes so well I'm not bothered' - after time one is always bothered and should follow your gut instinct.

What I do know is I never liked the E9x MSport suspension as it was too hard. I'd be interested to try a passive MSport F30 to compare; if it's less harsh than the E9x it will probably be just fine. I wouldn't have another non-MSport setup if ACS didn't have a kit to improve.

Tengocity · 08-22-2014, 04:33 PM

I suspect that as soon as the run flats are off I will pretty much permanently be in Sport suspension mode. So for me, I am demanding a lot from my suspension as I want a firmly damped car, but good a good ride too. Just not feasible on runflats as they soften up the suspension too much to make up for the tyres, and it is still compromised. But if the tyres have some give for the sharp stuff, and you have good dampers, it's surprising at times how stiff a suspension you can get away with. The Z4 suspension is way firmer than the 335d, yet I prefer how it rides at times.

And an E90 M3 manages to be stiff, yet never too harsh.

So I think in due course I would really like to try the ACS RS set up!

moonshine · 08-22-2014, 04:34 PM

i’m planning on keeping hold of my 335d with adaptive for a number of years.
i am the first to admit i was dismissive of the negative comments re. the standard suspension, but the more people rave about the ACS upgrade, the more i think it a worthwhile proposition...

hmmmm.

Tengocity · 08-22-2014, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonshine

i’m planning on keeping hold of my 335d with adaptive for a number of years.
i am the first to admit i was dismissive of the negative comments re. the standard suspension, but the more people rave about the ACS upgrade, the more i think it a worthwhile proposition...

hmmmm.

If you plan to keep it for a while then honestly I really I can't help but think you should go for it. If you're someone who chops and changes on cars every 2 or 3 years, then maybe not worth the cost for that time.

moonshine · 08-22-2014, 04:38 PM

that is kind of my thinking..... i’m planning on 6-7 years before a change

DieselRocket · 08-22-2014, 04:40 PM

I'm with NISFAN on the value of Adaptive. I have it on my 330d M Sport and, while it's nice to be able to change the character of the car, neither Comfort or Sport provide a decent blend of ride and control. As he says, when you start driving at around 7 10ths, the car does slightly unpredictable things in different situations.

Given the quality of springs and dampers that BMW choose to fit, Adaptive is a bit of a gimmick. I'm sure, were the components better quality, adaptive suspension could be excellent on 3 and 4 series, as is the equivalent on a 911. The core issue isn't wheel size.

So, both from a ride and handling point of view, I'd suggest specing non-adaptive and then upgrading springs, or both springs and dampers.

MarkG_M5Comp · 08-22-2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I suspect that as soon as the run flats are off I will pretty much permanently be in Sport suspension mode. So for me, I am demanding a lot from my suspension as I want a firmly damped car, but good a good ride too. Just not feasible on runflats as they soften up the suspension too much to make up for the tyres, and it is still compromised. But if the tyres have some give for the sharp stuff, and you have good dampers, it's surprising at times how stiff a suspension you can get away with. The Z4 suspension is way firmer than the 335d, yet I prefer how it rides at times.

And an E90 M3 manages to be stiff, yet never too harsh.

So I think in due course I would really like to try the ACS RS set up!

This, my friend, is exactly right. I could quite happily stay in Sport permanently.

NISFAN · 08-22-2014, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Nisfan, how would adapting the damper rates electronically on the fly via adaptive be any different to say a coilover kit (eg. KW v3 or ACS RS kit) where you can change the compression and rebound, when the spring itself must still have the same spring rate? Or does that change when you change the ride height as well?

I've read it before that ideally there is a perfect matched damper setting for any given spring rate, on a certain car, and that adjustability is not needed, or certainly over-rated. May have been Kevin Bird, explaining why his B3 kit wasn't adjustable though!

There is a definite damper 'sweet spot' when it comes to a set spring rate on a particular vehicle, so yes I would agree with Bird's if that is what they claim. Also, many aftermarket kits that allow single damper adjustment, usually focus on bump only, the rebound has been matched to the spring, and does not require changing. Or if they change both, the rebound is usually a finer adjustment than the bump.

BMW's adaptive adjusts both rebound and bump. On the sDrive, the rebound is too stiff in Sport mode, so too is bump. It allows skipping in the corners/under braking and even jacking, which is a very poor situation. I would suspect the stiffer ACS springs help in taking the springs closer to the damper settings.

Pablo68 · 08-22-2014, 04:53 PM

I don't have adaptive and I drive in sport/+ 95% of the time and it is much much better than my e92msport for daily driving. Having said that I would like it to be a little less roly at times but it doesn't bounce or wallow at all and gives plenty of feedback on grip front and rear. Over all I think the f30 msport sDrive non adaptive is very close to being as good as it gets for an all-purpose setup, barring track work.

MarkG_M5Comp · 08-22-2014, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I don't have adaptive and I drive in sport/+ 95% of the time and it is much much better than my e92msport for daily driving. Having said that I would like it to be a little less roly at times but it doesn't bounce or wallow at all and gives plenty of feedback on grip front and rear. Over all I think the f30 msport sDrive non adaptive is very close to being as good as it gets for an all-purpose setup, barring track work.

As I suspected - sounds great.

I may try and drive one when I go in for the M3/4 drive.

teaston · 12-24-2014, 04:42 AM

Thanks for this thread @Ade_7 i had missed it before somehow! I was really wanting to know how much difference they make on an M Sport 330d sdrive (albeit that yours is adaptive and touring), so your endorsement has made me order the ACS springs!

I'm going to fit them myself as a) it looks pretty straight forward, and b) i'll be taking them off this car in 15 months time and fitting them to my next 330d, so 3 changes would have cost me a fortune if done by a garage!

Mattyk · 12-24-2014, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkWoods

Had a chat with my local dealer Marshalls Grimsby, and labour is £400. I didn't realise that the xDrive didn't automatically have MSport springs until too late to spec adaptive. Am I in the minority that have ordered in poverty spec? I'm happy with it apart from the suspension, it just needs an anchor on the bow and a propellor instead of the exhaust!

No mate your not!

Stealer told me adaptive only made msport suspension softer, so didn't bother, they neglected to say "apart from xdrive cars which are non msport msports...."

What is an msport car if not one with sports suspension

I am just waiting to get my final Xmas cost sorted before I swap springs, although I am seriously considering full set up.

matk · 12-24-2014, 11:02 AM

This is a good thread and thanks for the write up Ade. I like how the car sits now and i definatlythink my f31 needs that bit extra. I just need to get the funds sorted now and get them sorted.

Kal101 · 12-24-2014, 02:24 PM

That's for the write up Ade.

simon. · 12-24-2014, 02:43 PM

Ade. Any further thoughts on how you are getting on with the springs around MK?

I also live in MK & have just sold my M135i & have a 335D with adaptive coming next week hopefully.

Be interested to see your car & find out what it's like as I have decided to get my car delivered standard then decide if I need ACS springs in my life.

The M135 had some body roll & that wasn't a bad thing as it communicated back what it was doing & I'm sure the MSS tyres helped there as well.

Bit of a change for me & I'm really looking forward to it but I do want the car to handle well when needed but also retain comfort in the 60 mile daily commute.

teaston · 12-24-2014, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon.

Ade. Any further thoughts on how you are getting on with the springs around MK?

I also live in MK & have just sold my M135i & have a 335D with adaptive coming next week hopefully.

Be interested to see your car & find out what it's like as I have decided to get my car delivered standard then decide if I need ACS springs in my life.

The M135 had some body roll & that wasn't a bad thing as it communicated back what it was doing & I'm sure the MSS tyres helped there as well.

Bit of a change for me & I'm really looking forward to it but I do want the car to handle well when needed but also retain comfort in the 60 mile daily commute.

The M Sport suspension is too wobbly for roundabouts, so it's pretty certain you won't be happy with your SE suspension i'm afraid.

JonD · 12-25-2014, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Stealer told me adaptive only made msport suspension softer,

I don't think that's correct, I've got adaptive on my current car and I've had the same car (courtesy car) none adaptive.

In comfort the adaptive is softer than the passive, in sport the adaptive is firmer than the passive, the standard m sport passive sits somewhere in the middle of the adaptive equipped cars.

I've ordered adaptive for my incoming 435d as I was aware of the none m sport suspension, my dealer also mentioned it to be fair.

08-22-2014, 03:28 PM	#25
MarkWoods New Member 10 Rep 20 Posts Drives: F30 330d xdrive msport Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Grimsby iTrader: (0)	[QUOTE=JD6;16511279]The dealer really should have told you this. I suppose I could go see the salesman and put the squeeze on for a few quid off. I do however have an ex BMW specialist to approach next, just concerned non BMW fitting might invalidate the warranty?
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08-22-2014, 04:19 PM	#27
Tengocity General 8566 Rep 19,982 Posts Drives: 911, Cayenne Turbo, Disco 4 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Crieff, Perthshire, Scotland iTrader: (0)	Nisfan, how would adapting the damper rates electronically on the fly via adaptive be any different to say a coilover kit (eg. KW v3 or ACS RS kit) where you can change the compression and rebound, when the spring itself must still have the same spring rate? Or does that change when you change the ride height as well? I've read it before that ideally there is a perfect matched damper setting for any given spring rate, on a certain car, and that adjustability is not needed, or certainly over-rated. May have been Kevin Bird, explaining why his B3 kit wasn't adjustable though! __________________ Current: Porsche 911 991 C4S, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, Land Rover Discovery 4. Gone...G01 X3 M40i, Cayman S 987, F31 340i, Cayman GT4, F82 M4 CP, Lotus Exige V6, G20 330e, F30 330e, Boxster S 987, F31 335d, Mini Cooper SD, E89 Z4, E90 330d 320d, E60 520d, E46 330d 320d, MX5s, E30 325i
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08-22-2014, 04:24 PM	#28
MarkG_M5Comp Supreme Being 1804 Rep 5,425 Posts Drives: M5 Comp Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK iTrader: (0)	I rate my adaptive with ACS springs as excellent with the ideal balance of comfort with possibility of stiffness and control. I was getting tired of the bounce before they were fitted and would spend more time considering this before purchase next time - which also makes me doubt a 5 series for the next car. I think I was blinded by the available power and didn't spend long enough debating the suspension. Funny thing is, I remember saying to the sales guy after my all-day test drive 'it doesn't handle as well as my E92 but goes so well I'm not bothered' - after time one is always bothered and should follow your gut instinct. What I do know is I never liked the E9x MSport suspension as it was too hard. I'd be interested to try a passive MSport F30 to compare; if it's less harsh than the E9x it will probably be just fine. I wouldn't have another non-MSport setup if ACS didn't have a kit to improve. __________________ Current: F90 M5 Competition Gone: F80 M3 Competition Pack / M135i / F15 X5 M50d / Saab 9-5 Aero HOT / F30 335d xDrive M Sport / E92 LCI 320d M Sport / E46 320d M Sport Touring / E46 318i Touring
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08-22-2014, 04:33 PM	#29
Tengocity General 8566 Rep 19,982 Posts Drives: 911, Cayenne Turbo, Disco 4 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Crieff, Perthshire, Scotland iTrader: (0)	I suspect that as soon as the run flats are off I will pretty much permanently be in Sport suspension mode. So for me, I am demanding a lot from my suspension as I want a firmly damped car, but good a good ride too. Just not feasible on runflats as they soften up the suspension too much to make up for the tyres, and it is still compromised. But if the tyres have some give for the sharp stuff, and you have good dampers, it's surprising at times how stiff a suspension you can get away with. The Z4 suspension is way firmer than the 335d, yet I prefer how it rides at times. And an E90 M3 manages to be stiff, yet never too harsh. So I think in due course I would really like to try the ACS RS set up! __________________ Current: Porsche 911 991 C4S, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, Land Rover Discovery 4. Gone...G01 X3 M40i, Cayman S 987, F31 340i, Cayman GT4, F82 M4 CP, Lotus Exige V6, G20 330e, F30 330e, Boxster S 987, F31 335d, Mini Cooper SD, E89 Z4, E90 330d 320d, E60 520d, E46 330d 320d, MX5s, E30 325i
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08-22-2014, 04:34 PM	#30
moonshine Lieutenant Colonel 849 Rep 1,858 Posts Drives: 718 Boxster S Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Glasgow iTrader: (0)	i’m planning on keeping hold of my 335d with adaptive for a number of years. i am the first to admit i was dismissive of the negative comments re. the standard suspension, but the more people rave about the ACS upgrade, the more i think it a worthwhile proposition... hmmmm.
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08-22-2014, 04:38 PM	#32
moonshine Lieutenant Colonel 849 Rep 1,858 Posts Drives: 718 Boxster S Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Glasgow iTrader: (0)	that is kind of my thinking..... i’m planning on 6-7 years before a change
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08-22-2014, 04:40 PM	#33
DieselRocket First Lieutenant 60 Rep 355 Posts Drives: 435d M Sport Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Bristol iTrader: (0)	I'm with NISFAN on the value of Adaptive. I have it on my 330d M Sport and, while it's nice to be able to change the character of the car, neither Comfort or Sport provide a decent blend of ride and control. As he says, when you start driving at around 7 10ths, the car does slightly unpredictable things in different situations. Given the quality of springs and dampers that BMW choose to fit, Adaptive is a bit of a gimmick. I'm sure, were the components better quality, adaptive suspension could be excellent on 3 and 4 series, as is the equivalent on a 911. The core issue isn't wheel size. So, both from a ride and handling point of view, I'd suggest specing non-adaptive and then upgrading springs, or both springs and dampers.
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08-22-2014, 04:53 PM	#36
Pablo68 Left the building 185 Rep 1,608 Posts Drives: Not a diesel. Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Petrol Heaven iTrader: (0)	I don't have adaptive and I drive in sport/+ 95% of the time and it is much much better than my e92msport for daily driving. Having said that I would like it to be a little less roly at times but it doesn't bounce or wallow at all and gives plenty of feedback on grip front and rear. Over all I think the f30 msport sDrive non adaptive is very close to being as good as it gets for an all-purpose setup, barring track work.
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12-24-2014, 04:42 AM	#38
teaston Banned 10994 Rep 32,881 Posts Drives: X3 M40d Join Date: May 2012 Location: The High Seas iTrader: (1)	Thanks for this thread @Ade_7 i had missed it before somehow! I was really wanting to know how much difference they make on an M Sport 330d sdrive (albeit that yours is adaptive and touring), so your endorsement has made me order the ACS springs! I'm going to fit them myself as a) it looks pretty straight forward, and b) i'll be taking them off this car in 15 months time and fitting them to my next 330d, so 3 changes would have cost me a fortune if done by a garage!
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12-24-2014, 11:02 AM	#40
matk Captain 32 Rep 652 Posts Drives: 330d F31 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	This is a good thread and thanks for the write up Ade. I like how the car sits now and i definatlythink my f31 needs that bit extra. I just need to get the funds sorted now and get them sorted.
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12-24-2014, 02:24 PM	#41
Kal101 Major General 3105 Rep 7,031 Posts Drives: 335xd Msport + Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: West mids!!!! iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 Bmw msport + 3 ... [0.00]	That's for the write up Ade.
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12-24-2014, 02:43 PM	#42
simon. Colonel 922 Rep 2,559 Posts Drives: F48 25D mSport Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Milton Keynes iTrader: (0)	Ade. Any further thoughts on how you are getting on with the springs around MK? I also live in MK & have just sold my M135i & have a 335D with adaptive coming next week hopefully. Be interested to see your car & find out what it's like as I have decided to get my car delivered standard then decide if I need ACS springs in my life. The M135 had some body roll & that wasn't a bad thing as it communicated back what it was doing & I'm sure the MSS tyres helped there as well. Bit of a change for me & I'm really looking forward to it but I do want the car to handle well when needed but also retain comfort in the 60 mile daily commute.
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