[kolosy]

So I picked up my 340 on Saturday. Driving it out of the dealer, noticed the iDrive rebooting. Had to run, knew service was closed, said "screw it, I'll bring it in on Monday".

Well, they snuck me in on Monday evening, said it's just a software reload that'll take 2 hours and it should be ready to go by Tuesday morning. Today, "sorry, the reload didn't work, we've opened a PUMA case and are having BMW reload it remotely. If that works, it'll be ready tomorrow"

YGBFKM!! The reason I have this car right now is because BMW couldn't fix an issue on my last car!!!

arrg. at least the loaner is a '16 435 cab xdrive msport.

I'm a big fan of the brand. This is my 7th, and I think the 12th in my family (I lease a lot). The last car was our first big issue... but this one is right after it, and my dad's new F32 has the same exact problem. 1 / 12 cars isn't bad. 3 / 12 is rather disturbing.

</rant>

[BavarianFanatic]

Software sucks. It's the new world order though. There's no escaping "smart" technology.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Software sucks. It's the new world order though. There's no escaping "smart" technology.

Yeah, it's just software, man.

Feel free to complain loudly when something really goes wrong with what makes it an actual car, like the crap under the hood.

I had performance center delivery again this year. They told me they had to reinstall the software when the car came up from port; then it was ready for my pick up date. Not any issues. iDrive rebooted once a few weeks ago after I installed a software update, but wasn't a big deal.

Car is new, and I know it's frustrating, but the tech is sensitive and complicated crap; sometimes it has bugs.

[goj]

Even the best software has bugs likely the issue was that something went wrong with at the VPC when the Domestic software was being uploaded.

[RoundelM3]

My '13 335i (without nav) had something similar happen not long after I got it, but it was supposedly a new software release that was related to the satellite radio and was being downloaded via satellite. A few days later, the problem went away and no problems since. Didn't bother to take it to the dealership after doing some online research.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by goj

Even the best software has bugs likely the issue was that something went wrong with at the VPC when the Domestic software was being uploaded.

What makes you think the VPC loads software on US cars? (other than cars getting VPC installed upgrades)

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by claykin

What makes you think the VPC loads software on US cars? (other than cars getting VPC installed upgrades)

ED cars receive updates to return them to US spec. Domestic cars generally don't unless there's an active mandatory campaign that is released between production and arrival at the VPC.

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Software sucks. It's the new world order though. There's no escaping "smart" technology.

Software doesn't suck. Software is amazing. It's just the cheap Chinese and Indian coders that they hire that can't code for shit, and no one at BMW to QC it.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Software doesn't suck. Software is amazing. It's just the cheap Chinese and Indian coders that they hire that can't code for shit, and no one at BMW to QC it.

OK, the real world application of software sucks. In general the actual code itself doesn't suck. It only does what it's been told to do. Designing software and vetting all possible failure modes is virtually impossible. NO ONE is capable of writing infallible code right out of the shoot. I have firsthand knowledge and experience with this IRL. There are many times I yearn for the analog days of old.

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

OK, the real world application of software sucks. In general the actual code itself doesn't suck. It only does what it's been told to do. Designing software and vetting all possible failure modes is virtually impossible. NO ONE is capable of writing infallible code right out of the shoot. I have firsthand knowledge and experience with this IRL. There are many times I yearn for the analog days of old.

Not sure what firsthand knowledge of software development you have, and if it's any newer than punched cards; but if you think it's as simple as slapping a few lines of codes together and hoping it works, and then go "ah well, software sucks" when it doesn't, then obviously you need to add planning and QC to your development cycle. Something that BMW doesn't appear to be doing. I have already lamented time and time again that BMW sucked at software, not that software sucked.

[paul e]

I spent my entire 35 year career as a mainframe software programmer. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for adequate testing. The idea that you can code stuff error free is a smokey dream. BMW may suck at software simply because their development cycle is uncoordinated between various sites or doesn't leave adequate test time. Or more commonly, they don't do regression testing - making sure that all that worked correctly before still does.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Software doesn't suck. Software is amazing. It's just the cheap Chinese and Indian coders that they hire that can't code for shit, and no one at BMW to QC it.

Not sure what ability to code has to do with being Chinese or Indian; in fact, I know it doesn't have anything to do with it, so why say it?

Ok, we all now know you're a bigot; good for you.

All software is buggy, even my beloved Apple releases some crap from time to time, and that company has some pretty low diversity numbers and they're a software/hardware company.

In other words, most of the software engineers at Apple are white males; does this mean white males can't code for shit? No. And I assure you that Apple uses the Agile method with at least a couple of Software Developers in Test to perform QA, yet there are still issues with Gold Master releases.

Coding is just difficult. Good thing is, a software update usually fixes the issue.

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Not sure what ability to code has to do with being Chinese or Indian; in fact, I know it doesn't have anything to do with it, so why say it?

Ok, we all now know you're a bigot; good for you.

You're the one bringing bigotry into it. You're the bigot. Why don't you read the below article from The Atlantic, that famous right-wing hardcore bigot magazine.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-coder/280636/

And I know you've never coded professionally because you use the Agile buzzword, just like that dude from accounting.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Not sure what firsthand knowledge of software development you have, and if it's any newer than punched cards; but if you think it's as simple as slapping a few lines of codes together and hoping it works, and then go "ah well, software sucks" when it doesn't, then obviously you need to add planning and QC to your development cycle. Something that BMW doesn't appear to be doing. I have already lamented time and time again that BMW sucked at software, not that software sucked.

Nice smarmy response. Really, punch cards? I don't write embedded code, but I DO have many, many years of experience designing and writing application code for complex mechanical systems. I never said anything remotely close to what you're insinuating. I'm guessing you ARE a "coder" and that you think your code is perfect?

As I stated, it's 100% impossible to write perfect code out of the gate. You can test it every which way you can imagine, but, the limitation is that you have to first imagine all possible failure modes. Again, it is not and never will be possible to prevent failures. This is why there are constant patches and updated releases as the issues percolate to the surface. Even the simplest of systems can fail if something is injected into the loop that would never be rationally expected.

Also, I think it's a bit unfair to blame BMW for a lack of development or QC. They push the envelope with their systems vs. the majority of other manufacturers so, frankly, it should be expected that their will be teething pains as things are released. The fact that all of the systems are now bused together makes the systems exponentially more complex. I'd get upset if they ignored the problems or denied they existed, but that's simply not the case. They're constantly developing patches and updates to fix things that aren't working as designed.

Finally, while conventional analog systems in general can be viewed as "old" or "archaic", the beauty of their simplicity is very obvious. When you want to test a relay it's a very simple matter to do so. If the problem lies elsewhere it is easy to pull out your drawings and start tracing circuits. When you are faced with a system that contains programmable controllers and addressable devices all bets are off. If you're lucky enough to be able to access the code you're in for a world of hurt trying to find the needle in the haystack as you manually cycle through the code. If you don't have access to the code then all bets are off. So, yes, software sucks. Not always, but definitely when the fault lies embedded in the software.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by ft1330

You're the one bringing bigotry into it. You're the bigot. Why don't you read the below article from The Atlantic, that famous right-wing hardcore bigot magazine.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-coder/280636/

And I know you've never coded professionally because you use the Agile buzzword, just like that dude from accounting.

I went to Bimmerpost and ended up on Reddit. Some kind of bug in my browser? Or, as ft1330 would say, "Chrome is coded by Indians!"

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Nice smarmy response. Really, punch cards? I don't write embedded code, but I DO have many, many years of experience designing and writing application code for complex mechanical systems. I never said anything remotely close to what you're insinuating. I'm guessing you ARE a "coder" and that you think your code is perfect?

Not a coder anymore (I manage the team now); My code was only 99% perfect but was very well tested and I didn't treat the customers like beta testers, unlike BMW.

I don't get it, you tell me software sucks and now you're defending BMW for making sucky software- Go figure.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by ft1330

You're the one bringing bigotry into it. You're the bigot. Why don't you read the below article from The Atlantic, that famous right-wing hardcore bigot magazine.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-coder/280636/

And I know you've never coded professionally because you use the Agile buzzword, just like that dude from accounting.

Nope, I don't code, I'm in Finance, sport. Coders work for me.

I may be a lot of things, but a racist bigot isn't one of them, and I'm a white guy from Alabama.

You son, stereotyped two nations of people. Funny that both are countries with both over 1 billion people. Sort of hard to stereotype 2.6 billion, but that's what you've done here.

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

I went to Bimmerpost and ended up on Reddit. Some kind of bug in my browser? Or, as ft1330 would say, "Chrome is coded by Indians!"

I'm guessing you haven't been on Bimmerpost very long (weird that your join date shows 2010, forum must have been coded by Indians)

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Nope, I don't code, I'm in Finance, sport. Coders work for me.

Haha.

Agile.

[goj]

Originally Posted by claykin

What makes you think the VPC loads software on US cars? (other than cars getting VPC installed upgrades)

I know the VPC uploads the "domestic/country specific software" I have read it somewhere on the forums and my CA confirmed it when i asked what happens at the VPC vs dealer predelivery.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Not a coder anymore (I manage the team now); My code was only 99% perfect but was very well tested and I didn't treat the customers like beta testers, unlike BMW.

I don't get it, you tell me software sucks and now you're defending BMW for making sucky software- Go figure.

You, as typical of many mediocre software developers, have misidentified the root cause. In this case, the actual problem is with your offhand remark about Chinese and Indian developers.

Bad coding knows no country boundaries.

[eluded]

this thread is so funny funny, especially when people got all agile... and, nobody does QA on their code anymore, that was so 2000.