[ts61gogo]

People can often find new things and innovations ugly at first.
For example many have changed their opinions about the new 1er.

[Vector Pilot]

Originally Posted by US///M3

That's a pretty ignorant statement. One of the most successful BMW designer is Japanese. He penned the e36,e39,e90...the E36 revolutionized the car design world especially the coupe E36.

Apologies to individual Japanese artists+designers. With that being said, allow me to clarify and expand my point. Japanese auto companies direct their designers [which includes a diverse group among them many Americans] to duplicate if not copy the style and design of German automobiles. Look no further than Toyota/Lexus. To expand my point even further, in the world of product design, success fosters plagiarism. Example, count the number of smart phones produced after the introduction of Apple's iPhone.

[Robin_NL]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so they say.

Originally Posted by ts61gogo

People can often find new things and innovations ugly at first.
For example many have changed their opinions about the new 1er.

This.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Apologies to individual Japanese artists+designers. [u2b][/u2b]With that being said, allow me to clarify and expand my point. Japanese auto companies direct their designers [which includes a diverse group among them many Americans] to duplicate if not copy the style and design of German automobiles. Look no further than Toyota/Lexus. To expand my point even further, in the world of product design, success fosters plagiarism. Example, count the number of smart phones produced after the introduction of Apple's iPhone.

It's a global industry even some american,British cars look german nowadays, Chevrolet Cruise,Ford Fusion for example.
the Nissan 350z was designed by a guy from India for example and it doesn't look anything German.
Even BMW copied some of their concepts from M-B, Benz was the first to introduce the mid size sav,then followed by Lexus then BMW...same with the 4 door Coupe.

Some may argue the first SAV was introduced by AMC.

You made it sound like only Asian car manufacturers did this...

[Zirenz2006]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Apologies to individual Japanese artists+designers. With that being said, allow me to clarify and expand my point. Japanese auto companies direct their designers [which includes a diverse group among them many Americans] to duplicate if not copy the style and design of German automobiles. Look no further than Toyota/Lexus. To expand my point even further, in the world of product design, success fosters plagiarism. Example, count the number of smart phones produced after the introduction of Apple's iPhone.

I was with you until Apple. I wonder where they got the pull down notifications idea from in iOS??

[Vector Pilot]

Originally Posted by US///M3

It's a global industry even some american,British cars look german nowadays, Chevrolet Cruise,Ford Fusion for example.
the Nissan 350z was designed by a guy from India for example and it doesn't look anything German.
Even BMW copied some of their concepts from M-B, Benz was the first to introduce the mid size sav,then followed by Lexus then BMW...same with the 4 door Coupe.

Some may argue the first SAV was introduced by AMC.

You made it sound like only Asian car manufacturers did this...

I agree with points made with examples given, but at the heart of the discussion is when an existing or new product is introduced with a unique style, design or function and is widely accepted it transforms an industry and inspires others to follow.

Highest Regards.

[Xcution]

BMW new design was a risk that was worth taking. I have the same feeling as a few that a few things look weird (not ugly). People need to understand that what you see in pics is not the same as in person.

Wait to see it in person sit down enjoy and then comment, imo.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

I agree with points made with examples given, but at the heart of the discussion is when an existing or new product is introduced with a unique style, design or function and is widely accepted it transforms an industry and inspires others to follow.

Highest Regards.

Regarding function:

What about hybrids,making fuel efficient and reliable cars?
I'm old enough to remember when gay only meant happy and back when most german and american cars were gas guzzlers and weren't reliable.

[Vector Pilot]

Originally Posted by US///M3

Regarding function:

What about hybrids,making fuel efficient and reliable cars?
I'm old enough to remember when gay only meant happy and back when most german and american cars were gas guzzlers and weren't reliable.

Enjoyed the discussion, have a good day.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Enjoyed the discussion, have a good day.

You too.

[S1000RR Drag Racer]

Everybody seems to forgetting one thing. Whenever you see a BMW whether it is one day old or 20 years old, you know it's a BMW. The Japanese manufacturers have never ever been innovators of anything. All they have ever done was copy European and American manufactures for decades. That's why all of their cars now look cheap and are getting recalls every year after years of bragging they were the best. Fact, there are a lot of BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Sabb, VW, and American classic cars on the road. Where are all the Japanese classic cars? They are in the junkyard. No BMW's are not ugly. They think "outside the box" and never follow the crowd. Why else would every manufacturer in the world want to strive to be better than the 3 Series for the past 20 years? BMW is the smallest company of all automobile manufacturers, but it leads the entire industry in innovation and the most copied of all.

[Xcution]

I dont know about making them ugly, but they are pissing me off with this pkg shit and limited exterior and interior color combos and trims... dumb!!! BUT!!! money is the name of the game.

[JoeyO]

While I dislike the headlights-grille combo and the small size of the headlights, my biggest gripe with the new F30 design is the bold horizontal line on the front hood. Not only does it push the BMW logo too close to the grille, but it contrasts all the other lines on the car. It's hard for my eyes to ignore it. Sort of like a turd in a punch bowl :-)

1) I don't necessarily buy the argument that it's there because of European pedestrian impact laws, because Audi just redesigned their 2013 A4 front and it doesn't have a plastic hood portion. Also, the VW Jetta and Golf are fairly new designs and they do not have a plastic hood portion either. See Audi below.

2) Plus, even if it was mandatory by law, I feel there are much better ways to design better hood lines. For instance, Lamborghini does an excellent job in handling their front line. They make it look like it was intentially designed to blend with the rest of the vehicle. Notice how the line jogs around the Lambo logo. Lambo treats the line as an integral part of the car's design, unlike BMW which treats it like an afterthought. Lambo's hood line has a slight bend which matches the rest of the front end, unlike BMW which looks like they used a perfectly straight ruler.

IMO, another hood design which deals with the front line issue OK is the Volvo S40. With the Volvo, the hood lines match up with the other lines of the car nicely. Just my 2 cents.

By the way, if I had to pick the best front end design in the current BMW line-up I'd pick the X3. It's very traditional, clean, bold, and looks modern. :-)

[Drivaar]

+1000!!! BMW designers got really lazy with the hood line, and it just looks plain stupid.

Originally Posted by JoeyO

While I dislike the headlights-grille combo and the small size of the headlights, my biggest gripe with the new F30 design is the bold horizontal line on the front hood. Not only does it push the BMW logo too close to the grille, but it contrasts all the other lines on the car. It's hard for my eyes to ignore it. Sort of like a turd in a punch bowl :-)

1) I don't necessarily buy the argument that it's there because of European pedestrian impact laws, because Audi just redesigned their 2013 A4 front and it doesn't have a plastic hood portion. Also, the VW Jetta and Golf are fairly new designs and they do not have a plastic hood portion either. See Audi below.

2) Plus, even if it was mandatory by law, I feel there are much better ways to design better hood lines. For instance, Lamborghini does an excellent job in handling their front line. They make it look like it was intentially designed to blend with the rest of the vehicle. Notice how the line jogs around the Lambo logo. Lambo treats the line as an integral part of the car's design, unlike BMW which treats it like an afterthought. Lambo's hood line has a slight bend which matches the rest of the front end, unlike BMW which looks like they used a perfectly straight ruler.

IMO, another hood design which deals with the front line issue OK is the Volvo S40. With the Volvo, the hood lines match up with the other lines of the car nicely. Just my 2 cents.

By the way, if I had to pick the best front end design in the current BMW line-up I'd pick the X3. It's very traditional, clean, bold, and looks modern. :-)

[S1000RR Drag Racer]

The only complaint I have about the new F30 3 Series is that you don not have a real bumper anymore. Since the introduction of the E90's in 2006, BMW made the front end with the kidney grills as part of the bumper. Of course it was done to make the cars more areodynamic and get better fuel mileage. Potentially, you're looking at more repair cost for a front end collision for an E90 or F30 in comparison to a E46, E36, or E30 that separated the bumper from the rest of the body.

[Drivaar]

The license plate serves as the bumper in the E90 and F30...

[bimmerjph]

The E46 wasn't ugly. And the E89, F01, and F10 defiantly are not ugly. I haven't seen the F30 in person, but I imagine it will be a stunner.

[NotQuickEnough]

I do believe BMW make the "pre-lci" cars uglier on purpose so that they can release the much better lci and boost sales mid cycle.

Also.. how hard was it to make the hood integrate with the kidneys a la e46.. would have solved the ugly hood line problem

[Gt5422md]

Originally Posted by Ti335

I'm really starting to think that it's part of BMW's new design philosophy to intentionally introduce a little bit of ugliness to their cars. I'm sure BMW designers are capable of designing a classically good looking car but for some reasons it seems to be verboten.

I have had nothing but "Wow!" type compilments w/ my F30. Most seem to agree it is a visually stunning car.

[Gt5422md]

I suspect the hood line placement has more to do w/ manufacturing efficiency than anything else. Watch the vehicle assembly videos.. it's pretty cool how they put the entire front on in one step. Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I don't mind the hood line...it makes it look more like a machine (ever look at the side of an aircraft... all sorts of cool breaks and lines).

[overkill1125]

Funny that most negative comments comes from non f30 owners. I do agree on some facts but this whole tread was started with the op posting in the f30 forum.
I believe he drive an lci e90 and obviously nothing negative will come that car.

I had a pre-lci and the thing I hated most from that car was the moustache.

Its normal human nature to boost whatever you own.

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by US///M3

+1

That proves you put a BMW badge on anything,it'll sell. I thought the e60 looked ugly when it came out,some people said it ll grow on you,it still looks ugly imo. Especially the front end.

The e39 looked good when it came out,you see one on the road,it still looks good. BMW probably sold more e60 5 series than e39's.

The E39 (LCI/facelifted) 5ers look amazing to me, but I love the LCI E60s a lot as well. The E60 front end looks very nice to me.

I guess it's personal opinion...