[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by drob23

The BMW run flat summers should be better than regular all seasons, though it probably depends a lot on the tire/brand. For example, the new Michelin AS3 or whatever is supposed to be an incredible AS tire.

It's pretty well known that BMW has been putting much better RF tires on their newer cars than when they first started this. But this is just info I've read here + there, no lap times to back it up!

As much as some may want to berate the runflat tires, it seems that they're just getting good and about as good as comparable regular tires. The only thing holding them back is the increased weight.

I have to believe that BMW has done a ton of research and thought that a set of run flats are somehow better than a set of regular tires with a spare. Maybe overall weight savings? Weight distribution?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

So did the Mustang V6 have "performance package with brembos", more aggressive axle ratio and 255 square tires or was it the base version with smaller brakes, fuel econ axle ratio?

Pretty brutal for the F30 that a "secretary special" V6 stang that costs much less was able to match it on at the track and a low power low price momentum car was able to hang as well.

Maybe BMW CCA track days are so expensive to keep all of the "crazy" Mustang 5.0 and base Corvette drivers away

Since, '11 the V6 Mustang equals or betters the performance of the of the pre '11 GT. We are still talking about a 305hp car here, not like the old days where the V6 Mustang was a performance joke. V6's are high 13 second cars and trap over 100mph and can also dance reasonably well too.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

As much as some may want to berate the runflat tires, it seems that they're just getting good and about as good as comparable regular tires. The only thing holding them back is the increased weight.

I have to believe that BMW has done a ton of research and thought that a set of run flats are somehow better than a set of regular tires with a spare. Maybe overall weight savings? Weight distribution?

I think it's a combination of improved weight balance and safety. Probably more so on the safety side of things - they don't want you changing your tire on the shoulder of a freeway.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by drob23

Well, haha, different strokes for different folks. I find the car already fast as hell from the factory, and have used this as an opportunity to "learn" about the car by getting some tools and jack stands. ECU stuff is pretty much plug in, flash and boom! Plus, voiding the powertrain warranty will only be done once I'm confident my DCT won't break to the tune of 10k

I found that paint chips were killing me inside every day, so I did a full front xpel clear bra. Then I wanted to swap out the grill and do a nice high quality tint. Next was suspension pieces to make the car handle flat as a rock and then springs to reduce the wheel gap. New wheels will complete the look wrapped in PSS...plus all the little things like painting brakes, replacing bulbs with leds and getting the right detailing tools. I'm next gonna wrap the amber side reflectors in vinyl wrap, which will require taking the lights apart Suffice it to say that most people I work with and friends think I'm a moron for messing with this beautiful new car (which I probably am haha).

The exhaust was probably the best upgrade I've done pound for pound, but the 3.0T has a much weaker engine note than the N55, but you'll be grinning every day you start her up. It has nothing to do with the performance...if that's what you want, go for some headers/downpipes

You can do this kind of stuff because you know what you are doing. As you know I am no engineer by any means so I take baby steps and can only go mperformance parts. Price you pay for hating physics at school and avoiding this good stuff in choosing your career path

Its always good to learn from people like you though. I can tell the S4 is turning out to be a cool car

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Since, '11 the V6 Mustang equals or betters the performance of the of the pre '11 GT. We are still talking about a 305hp car here, not like the old days where the V6 Mustang was a performance joke. V6's are high 13 second cars and trap over 100mph and can also dance reasonably well too.

+1

[rconti]

Originally Posted by 300hp

We are so different, I would have gone for the jugular, straight line first, everything else follows. Goes to show I am a novice at this.

I am going for MPE next, 5hp if the speculation is true and I am starting to love the exhaust notes

Not necessarily a novice, just that most BMW enthusiasts don't spend a lot of time drag racing. There are much better ways to get bang for your buck in straight line performance if that's your thing.

Not to say that the 335 isn't a beast in terms of acceleration.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by rconti

Not necessarily a novice, just that most BMW enthusiasts don't spend a lot of time drag racing. There are much better ways to get bang for your buck in straight line performance if that's your thing.

Not to say that the 335 isn't a beast in terms of acceleration.

Agreed, need to lay down some track times but that's for next year once I have a seperate set of tires for track duty. Haven't been to the drag strip though

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Since, '11 the V6 Mustang equals or betters the performance of the of the pre '11 GT. We are still talking about a 305hp car here, not like the old days where the V6 Mustang was a performance joke. V6's are high 13 second cars and trap over 100mph and can also dance reasonably well too.

I don't disagree and that's why I said it is pretty brutal for the F30. Good thing they didn't do a price equalized comparison or else the F30 would have been up against a track package 5.0 or Boss 302 and it would have been ugly for F30 with stock tires let alone with max performance tires

I wonder sometimes if the extra $ for the 35i cars is worth it since it still isn't enough power anyway. Next time it is probably better to get a 20i to pose/commute and a much more focused and cheaper car for driving.

[F32]

People need to stop thinking that a BMW 3-Series is a performance car.

[billiebob]

Originally Posted by 300hp

+1

+2, I rented a v6 mustang convertible and was shocked to realize it handled and braked much better than my 2011 328. Horrible auto trans though.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I don't disagree and that's why I said it is pretty brutal for the F30. Good thing they didn't do a price equalized comparison or else the F30 would have been up against a track package 5.0 or Boss 302 and it would have been ugly for F30 with stock tires let alone with max performance tires

I wonder sometimes if the extra $ for the 35i cars is worth it since it still isn't enough power anyway. Next time it is probably better to get a 20i to pose/commute and a much more focused and cheaper car for driving.

Re: Mustang GT

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co..._m3_comparison


I hope no one actually expected the 328i to win. The stang v6 will win all the time. As JV said these new Stangs are in a different league now

I think if there is one important take away from this is NEVER get all seasons

[BavarianFanatic]

I get a kick out of the reactions folks have to Mustangs, though I must admit there's more respect here than I expected. The introduction of the S197 changed the game. There's a lot of development in this chassis. When I had to use my lowly GT in a pinch for a CCA school all of the other instrucors initially turned their noses up at it. Then they spent the rest of the weekend trying to figure out how the hell my pos Ford was lapping their prepped and modded M cars. Even I was surprised with how well it performed considering I was on street rubber. I will admit however I'm not stock, but I'm no where near in as deep as I'd be in an E92 M3.


I think the main factor in the comparo was the fact that the Mustang started on all seasons so the potential for improvement was greater.

[drob23]

I think the thing people don't realize is that the V6 mustang is really light, according to wiki it's 3,350 lb with a 6MT. Even the GT is 3,480 lb with a 6MT. Now the Shelby GT500 is a different story, coming in at a hefty 3,920 lb. Some of these American pony cars also come with nice performance features for a pretty cheap price, such as Brembo's, Recaro seats or rear limited slip differentials. Just wish they could get their interiors under control.

The new mustang is gonna kick some pretty serious ass. With IRS and Fords ability to make good engines (they provide Aston Martin all their engines for example), I expect a lot of good things out of it, plus the Fusion design language will lend itself nicely (though current owners hate it). The 3.6L V6 ecoboost is a pretty sweet engine, feels really adequate in an F150.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by 300hp

You can do this kind of stuff because you know what you are doing. As you know I am no engineer by any means so I take baby steps and can only go mperformance parts. Price you pay for hating physics at school and avoiding this good stuff in choosing your career path

Its always good to learn from people like you though. I can tell the S4 is turning out to be a cool car

No worries man, I don't think it's really about being an engineer at all, lots of grease monkeys out there could rig up a pile of parts from a junkyard into a 10 second car. But they would look at an integral or even simple algebraic equation with a look of doom Engineering is fundamentally creative problem solving while fixing things is a combination of technique and knowledge. It's all about trying to do things yourself. Of course, a 55k BMW is not really the place you want to start, but you can always look for buddies or even people you meet here to help you out

The downside is you must buy your tools and have a place to work, but it's worth it. Maybe when you get your winter tires, buy yourself a floor jack from costco, some jack stands, a torque wrench, breaker bar and a cheap socket set from costco. Will run you about ~$300, but then you can swap your tires yourself and not pay BMW or whomever the fee. Plus, now you have tools to fix things around the house or maybe your kids bikes. It's all about the baby steps. Plus, there are fantastic resources now online, youtube tells you how to do pretty much anything Believe me, I had no idea what I was doing 10 months ago!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Re: Mustang GT

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co..._m3_comparison


I hope no one actually expected the 328i to win. The stang v6 will win all the time. As JV said these new Stangs are in a different league now

I think if there is one important take away from this is NEVER get all seasons

Prior to the 2011 Mustang engine changeover, I would have expected Mustang GT vs. 335 or Mustang V6 vs. 328 to go to the 3er if both cars are stock.

I do expect BMW to keep adding performance (3er has had roughly the same specs for 8 years now, and it is time to add some more hp and/or lose some weight)

Pretty soon take away is don't get BMW

[BavarianFanatic]

I have a GT and a 335i. They're two totally different cars. Lap times and 1/4 mile pulls do not define a car.

The Mustang is my hammer while the 3er is my scalpel.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by F32

People need to stop thinking that a BMW 3-Series is a performance car.

Exactly. An F30 is not a "beast" in any aspect of performance.

The comparison with the V6 Mustang is telling. Both the Mustang and F30 utilize an inexpensive, modest MacPherson strut front suspension, but the Mustang differs in employing a less sophisticated solid rear axle - yet it still outperforms the 328 (and the 335).

If you spent ~ $50,000 on an F30 based on its performance you made a poor purchase; $30,000 cars out perform it. Where did the other $20,000 go?

Interesting initial post and information. It is particularly interesting that the gap between the cars increases as each acquires better tires. So much for the argument that the tires are holding F30s back.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Elk

Exactly. An F30 is not a "beast" in any aspect of performance.

The comparison with the V6 Mustang is telling. Both the Mustang and F30 utilize an inexpensive, modest MacPherson strut front suspension, but the Mustang differs in employing a less sophisticated solid rear axle - yet it still outperforms the 328 (and the 335).

If you spent ~ $50,000 on an F30 based on its performance you made a poor purchase; $30,000 cars out perform it. Where did the other $20,000 go?

Interesting initial post and information. It is particularly interesting that the gap between the cars increases as each acquires better tires. So much for the argument that the tires are holding F30s back.

Wrong analysis on your part the Stang tested by C&D and all publications comes with proper summer performance tires. No one tests a stang with all seasons, lol. So I would not expect the Stang time to vary much between the one tested here and the one tested by most other publications. On the other hand the 3er tested across the board comes with inferior run flats. Yes the 328i with the better tires failed to beat the stang v6.

However I venture the 335i would not meet the same fate. My own thesis, we clearly differ and that's really cool

Other than the lap times that I was more excited about I think the point they were trying to make is all seasons will affect performance (Stang) and Run Flats will do the same (328i). Maybe one can take it a step further and say summer run flat tires are just as bad as all seasons non rfts.

[Falafel Combo]

M Sport in Estoril Blue II is looking sweet on the track! I'm sure the f30 design will be popular for a long time to come.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by KORALLROT

M Sport in Estoril Blue II is looking sweet on the track! I'm sure the f30 design will be popular for a long time to come.

+1

We need some positive energy around here, too much pessimism. A time of 1:30.7 on that track is a good time

[DVC]

Originally Posted by F32

People need to stop thinking that a BMW 3-Series is a performance car.

Oh, ok - thanks for the tip!

[rconti]

I still think it's funny that people get butthurt that their luxury car gets beat up on by a sports car.

Not so much in this example -- because the Mustang is more of a sports coupe. But, I was reading a review of the C7 Stingray versus the E90 M3 where the C7 of course beat up on the M3.

To the forum's credit, 50% of the posts were pro-Vette, even if saying "not the car for me" but 50% were in utter denial, pissing and moaning about how the Vette they've never seen in person, much less driven, must be a POS for losers, and "Wait till the new M3 comes out" and on and on.

Sore loser much?

Goddamn, I'd sure HOPE that a 2-seat focused sports car performs better than a luxury sedan. The point of the M3 is to come somewhere NEAR a proper sports car, with seats for 5, and you expect to pay more because it is more luxurious and holds more people.

Some people just need to let go of the idea that a luxury sedan/coupe is something more than the compromise that it is.

Even the F30 328 with the 8 speed slushbox would take down my M Coupe (actual sports car) in a straight line, to say nothing of how the 335 would kill it. You don't buy a sports car to be a luxury car, and you don't buy a luxury car to be a sports car. They both have their place. Accept it.

Relevant info: my only V6 Mustang experience was a 2011/2012 Mustang Convertible in Hawaii (with the new 300hp v6). I was blown away, that thing gets up and moves -- felt quicker than even the late 90s v8 coupes I have been in. Sure, it was a wet noodle, and the DBW and slushbox programming were terrible, but that's why I own a proper manual transmission BMW sports car and not a rental car!

If I was looking at a mustang, I'd have to buy the V8, just because. It's not that much more money, and it's a car you buy for the power. If I were buying an F30 (and I would buy an F31 if it was available with a stick), I'd buy the 4cyl because it's the right mix of power and efficiency.

That said, the V6 mustang is an awesome car, and a great performance buy.

An F30 is a better car in most ways than the Mustang. And it has the price to reflect it. Don't have a chip on your shoulder about it. If there's a way in which a luxury sedan is not better than a sporty coupe, deal with it. That's the compromise YOU chose.