02-17-2013, 03:36 PM | #89 | |
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Intercooler + downpipe + tune will get you pretty close to the horsepower numbers seen, and can be done for what, $3000 or so installed. Add a few more thousand for upgraded suspension and a limited slip diff, and you're pretty close to the total package. |
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02-17-2013, 03:58 PM | #90 | |
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02-17-2013, 04:01 PM | #91 |
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02-17-2013, 05:57 PM | #92 |
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I am excited about the new M3. With the V8, although lust worthy, I drive too much for that to be my DD.
If the car has a breathed on N55 and weights less, it should get close to 30mpg and a 400 mile range. I think it will be my next DD in less than five years.
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02-17-2013, 05:59 PM | #93 | |
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If they are the same price, different story...I thought the Alpina was 15% more.
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02-17-2013, 06:00 PM | #94 | |
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02-17-2013, 06:00 PM | #95 |
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02-17-2013, 06:19 PM | #96 |
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I was talking about the data I posted. It compared B3 and M3. Not 335i. The B3 is just a proof of the 335i's potential.
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02-17-2013, 06:21 PM | #97 | |
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I was saying that yes, they are very similar, but it's apples to oranges because the Alpina is more $$. I see what you're saying though, the 335i is certainly very capable (Alpina certainly demonstrating this) and if I was in any of the EU countries, I would've held off purchase of my 335i to get an Alpina...
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02-17-2013, 06:42 PM | #98 |
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335 gets 30+ on the highway and the M3 should not be heavier. I did not say it would average 30...I do mostly highway driving. 30 highway and a 400 mile range would be perfect. I think the E90 M3 struggles to crack 20mpg and 300 miles a tank. You had one, you tell me lol.
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02-17-2013, 06:49 PM | #99 | |
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The F80 may not be heavier (although, it might) than a 335i, it will have a diff, and maybe bigger/heavier brakes and wheels to eat away at mpg compared to a 335i. And it will probably have the 7-speed DCT, where the 335i often has the 8HP which helps out its highway mpg. I realize this is all speculation, but I just don't see an F80 even matching a 335i for mpg. Just compare a 550i F10 to a M5. No doubt the F80 mpg will be better than the E9x M3, but it will still be a hard argument to make that it will be an economical daily driver. Heck, it just cost me $50 to fill up my AH3 yesterday, and I wasn't too happy about that |
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02-17-2013, 07:15 PM | #100 | |
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My hugely over powered Roadster manages 26 on the highway, averages 20 and goes 200 on a tank-if it was a 17 gallon tank it would be DD worthy in my eyes lol.
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02-18-2013, 09:35 AM | #101 | |||
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And my point was that Alpina would be able to achieve a far larger jump in power, but that due to the almost nonexistent power jump of the new M3 compared to its predecessor, they were not allowed to do so. Quote:
Also, I don't see carbon ceramic rotors on an M3. Maybe as an option (as for the M5), but remember that the M3 targets far lower in price than the M5 and high-cost items like this cannot be integrated as a standard option into a car that is based on a 3 series. The rest of the stuff you listed may very well happen, but these measures (that have already been tried out partially by the GTS and CRT models) will in my opinion not result in a weight reduction that is going to be significant enough to make a difference performance wise. Anything that would do that would need to modify the 3 series setup to a point where the M3 would have little in common with its normal siblings; and that would mean it would simply be out of a price range that is marketable for that model. Personally I believe that a significant weight reduction can only be done by way of a complete alu chassis (like Audi has been doing as well as Ferrari) or an extensive use of carbon fiber (like McLaren or Lamborghini). BMW does not have the expertise for the former, and the latter is currently cost-prohibitive for all but supercars. That may very well change (apparently BMW will move there with the next 7 series), but we are still far from a point where you can use carbon fiber for models that are mass-market. There would not even exist factories that could cope with this demand today. Quote:
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02-18-2013, 11:51 AM | #102 | |
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02-18-2013, 02:18 PM | #103 | |
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Their is a very strong vocal that our first mainstream car out with BMWi will be the next generation 7er. And will show the potential of how that car compared to the current model will drastically drop in weight. When you combine CFRP , aluminium , magnesium , thermoplastic and press-hardened steel which will filter down within the BMW portfolio even spreading into additional models for the high end premium segment. BMW intend to use the i3 launch to also publish a report showing how cost-effective CFRP is for BMW compared to our competitors and you will be impressed. As full investment could probably have accommodated rival vanity projects to our competitors , BMW chose to focus. That is why it will be right to wait because not only will it be cost effective but profitable unlike one of our competitors. One such example is the MINI Rocketman concept. Today it is unthinkable because it would very expensive to do if we look beyond the concept detailing and focus on the CFRP floorplan. Such a concept this size and of mass volume production would be feasible for 2018.
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02-18-2013, 02:30 PM | #104 | |
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I am invested in BMW's commitment to the future and CF in more ways than one...
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02-18-2013, 04:48 PM | #105 |
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02-18-2013, 06:35 PM | #106 |
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It's a shame these cars don't make it to the US.
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02-19-2013, 04:02 AM | #107 | |
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And I assume that you have also read Scott's post - it will be a few years until BMW can really mass produce CF cars. The new M3 will certainly not be a part of this, which was the point that I was trying to make (and which you quite obviously missed). Alpina_B3_Lux
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02-19-2013, 06:43 AM | #108 | |
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There is a reason why the M chassis is F8x while the AG chassis is F3x. This could be due to weight savings efforts by M. It could also be utterly arbitrary and mean nothing at all (not a good bet IMHO), or it could mean something else that has nothing to do with weight (any guesses? Size sure is not it. Maybe shape? Color? Flavor? Odor? ). The fact is we don't know much about this chassis yet. If we assume a F3x rolling chassis weighs about 1800 lbs (that's a wild guess folks - feel free to provide a more accurate number), is a 10% weight reduction feasible (assuming no CF used in the unibody or body panels other than roof and perhaps hood/decklid)? Debateable, but perhaps not impossible. |
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02-19-2013, 08:58 AM | #110 |
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I'm pretty certain that Alpina 3/5 cars would not go over well in the US, because the pricing would be so close to M3/M5. Buyers in this $60-$100K USD range have a lot of options, including Porsche, MB, etc. The buyers that are looking for more exclusivity are typically in the $150K+ range, i.e. B7 territory.
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