[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by maswastage

I am hoping and praying the news about the diesel is true and not just a salesman pulling your leg.

As do I. I can tell you that he was presented to me as a BMWNA product development guy and from the way he talked and understood my BMW enthusiast slang/code names, it made sense that he was from BMWNA. I'm usually pretty good at smoking out the salesman.

[AlexM]

Originally Posted by maswastage

I am hoping and praying the news about the diesel is true and not just a salesman pulling your leg.

You can rest assured that the engine line won't stop at 320d They have two more engines coming on diesel side, one would definitely be the one OP is mentioning

[DnA Diesel]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

As do I. I can tell you that he was presented to me as a BMWNA product development guy and from the way he talked and understood my BMW enthusiast slang/code names, it made sense that he was from BMWNA. I'm usually pretty good at smoking out the salesman.

E46M54325Ci, great post! Thanks for a very comprehensive review that gives us a good sense of the new model.

Re: the diesel - an N47-based 330d would thump Audi and highline VW sales pretty hard. If this is correct, it sounds like BMWNA understands the American consumer's penchant for bigger and more, i.e. where 320d (and 318d and 316d) is quite acceptable for most Europeans and the 330d and 335d are a small fraction of European sales, Americans, and to a slightly lesser degree Canadians, want relatively more power.

This lines up closely with what I had heard about a year ago from my dealer regarding a lower-powered diesel F30 coming to fill in behind the E90 335d. That BMWNA is looking at a 30d vice 20d, still N47-based, is a pretty savvy move, especially so if the 35d or even 40d comes across in the LCI F10.

Regards
D.

[JoeyO]

I understand what is being said about the window trim. It looks like BMW put the black gloss entirely around the windows for the 5 Series Sport, yet for the F30 Sport they only put the black gloss on the vertical members. It's a mixture of both glossy and matte which looks half-ass and cheap.

You want to see some nice quality in window treatment? Look at an Audi window sometime, under close examination. Audi uses better plastics and rubber gasketing. It doesn't collect fingerprints and the fit and finish is impeccable. Audi's mold parting lines are much less noticeable than BMW's mold parting lines (you engineers will understand parting lines). Plus, no special cleaner is necessary to give it that new black look, only soap and water. My Audi's window trim looks just as new as 10 years ago when I purchased the car. I only wish BMW built their windows the same way.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by DnA Diesel

E46M54325Ci, great post! Thanks for a very comprehensive review that gives us a good sense of the new model.

Re: the diesel - an N47-based 330d would thump Audi and highline VW sales pretty hard. If this is correct, it sounds like BMWNA understands the American consumer's penchant for bigger and more, i.e. where 320d (and 318d and 316d) is quite acceptable for most Europeans and the 330d and 335d are a small fraction of European sales, American's, and to a slightly lesser degree Canadians, want relatively more power.

This lines up closely with what I had heard about a year ago from my delare regarding a lower-powered diesel F30 coming to fill in behind the E90 335d. That BMWNA is looking at a 30d vice 20d, still N47-based, is a pretty savvy move, especially so if the 35d or even 40d comes across in the LCI F10.

Regards
D.

40d in the 5 makes sense if they're doing 30d in the 3- I can see the marketing guys wanting to use the 30 and 40 for the diesels. If the new S Class diesel proves successful, I could also see a potential 740d, or perhaps 750d using the new triple turbo motor.

Originally Posted by JoeyO

I understand what is being said about the window trim. It looks like BMW put the black gloss entirely around the windows for the 5 Series Sport, yet for the F30 Sport they only put the black gloss on the vertical members. It's a mixture of both glossy and matte which looks half-ass and cheap.

You want to see some nice quality in window treatment? Look at an Audi window sometime, under close examination. Audi uses better plastics and rubber gasketing. It doesn't collect fingerprints and the fit and finish is impeccable. Audi's mold parting lines are much less noticeable than BMW's mold parting lines (you engineers will understand parting lines). Plus, no special cleaner is necessary to give it that new black look, only soap and water. My Audi's window trim looks just as new as 10 years ago when I purchased the car. I only wish BMW built their windows the same way.

This is exactly what I'm getting at- even the e9x cars 09+ has gloss window trim, and the sport e82 cars 08+ had it as well. You're spot on- I implore anyone to go glance at both Porsche and Audi window trims, they're much better done.

[jtuds]

I totally agree about the materials. It is like that in any Lexus, Audi, or Merc you see as well. To me that basically says these luxury car builders have some unspoken understanding that if they all sell their cars to us with cheaper than expiated materials for the price, they'll get away with it because as consumers we won't have a choice.

But BMW is more expensive than anything else in the class and to me the name means they're dedicated to making their car the best vehicle, not just the best driving vehicle. There were certainly some things I was disappointed in as it relates to interior materials, but then again, I've resigned myself to the fact that like it or not, the vehicle I buy, regardless of the name, is going to have that cost-cutting stuff. Given that, I'm going to buy the car I like driving most.

[jtuds]

Originally Posted by brad0

Great review and I agree with everything you found out. I'm getting a feeling like my F30 is just a 1 year car, I'll probably move on to something better next year.

Why? What do you have and what issues are you having?

[brad0]

Originally Posted by jtuds

Why? What do you have and what issues are you having?

The more time I spend inside the F30, the more I get let down by the interior cabin details. Most of the materials are pretty cheap, even the leather feels rough and not luxurious. Doesnt "feel" like a 50K car. My spec-ed out RX-8 had better quality details and cabin trim and I swear the seats and wheel felt better than the F30 and was generally a more pleasant place to sit down and drive.

The textured wood that looked cool in videos now feels like a cheap plastic panel. Its not fine grained as someone else mentioned and looks like a plastic panel that could have been attached later. Not one person that's sat in the car has ever mentioned being impressed by the interior and these are mostly people who drive "cheaper" cars (Mazda's,Nissan's, toyotas)

[PJPHughes]

I love my 335d but a powerful 2 liter diesel would make an excellent replacement. I just wish BMW would be willing to bring it in the F31 and xDrive. I assume it will still need urea injection however as our NOx emissions are stricter than Europe and even VW has to use urea on the Passat TDI here.

Fingers crossed that it's true...as my d now sits in the shop being repaired thanks to it being rear-ended yesterday.

[robbieracer]

I hope you're correct about the diesel, this is the engine I really want!

[doublevanosrc]

Good thread E46M54325Ci, I enjoyed your long post very much. I also agree with you on some things like cheapening materials.

[latebloomer]

Great news.. They say anything about manual?

I want a wagon, diesel, awd, manual under 50k and I will buy one. Why is it so hard to find this car in america? Americans need to learn that wagons > suv most of the time... Unless you have to tow or need 7 seater which 80% of suv's do not do.

Main reason, I want diesel is lots of torque and 40+ mpg.. if the regular petrol did it, thats fine.. the new 328 2.0T has good power but still <40 mpg...

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

Good thread E46M54325Ci, I enjoyed your long post very much. I also agree with you on some things like cheapening materials.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by late_boomer

Great news.. They say anything about manual?

I want a wagon, diesel, awd, manual under 50k and I will buy one. Why is it so hard to find this car in america? Americans need to learn that wagons > suv most of the time... Unless you have to tow or need 7 seater which 80% of suv's do not do.

Main reason, I want diesel is lots of torque and 40+ mpg.. if the regular petrol did it, thats fine.. the new 328 2.0T has good power but still <40 mpg...

Manual with the diesel- they didn't. I suspect it will only be auto for mpg/emissions reasons. I would LOVE to see a manual though. From what I understand, all other models will be available with a 6 speed manual. As for the wagon diesel, I'd say don't count on it. If I had to guess the diesel will only be available in the sedan with an auto. But maybe, just maybe, BMW will surprise us. I agree, an AWD 4 banger twin turbo diesel with a manual in a wagon would be an amazing car and would probably win me over as well!

[kevlartoronto]

did the bmwna rep say when the diesel will be available? maybe the sales person you visited could put the manual tranny question forward to this bmwna rep for us! i'd love to have a diesel wagon with manual but i would definitely go for the sedan with a diesel and manual. otherwise it's back to vw or audi. the a3 sedan with a diesel is coming in less than a year.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by brad0

The more time I spend inside the F30, the more I get let down by the interior cabin details. Most of the materials are pretty cheap, even the leather feels rough and not luxurious. Doesnt "feel" like a 50K car. My spec-ed out RX-8 had better quality details and cabin trim and I swear the seats and wheel felt better than the F30 and was generally a more pleasant place to sit down and drive.

The textured wood that looked cool in videos now feels like a cheap plastic panel. Its not fine grained as someone else mentioned and looks like a plastic panel that could have been attached later. Not one person that's sat in the car has ever mentioned being impressed by the interior and these are mostly people who drive "cheaper" cars (Mazda's,Nissan's, toyotas)

Without a doubt! I had the exact same feeling... I thought to myself if this car cost 35K... maybe hovering over to 40K for a fully loaded model it would be great but at that price it simply doesn't feel like a 50K car. The car does not feel nearly as solid overall as an E90... the steering feel is gone and the car feels like you are driving a RWD Accord and not a solid brick like the BMWs of yesteryear. Another problem being that you can purchase a 535i for almost the same price.

[Accelerometer]

Great review!

No offense but I would really take anything the "BMWNA Product Development Guy" said with a grain of salt. Somehow I doubt a multi-billion dollar company would hire someone in prod dev with such loose lips.

[accel]

I believe that sport, modern and luxury trim introduction is

1) a production cost cutting measure. It's much easier, faster
and cheaper to setup and manage processes and supply chain for
standard car trim lines with minor devaitions than more
random car configurations of the past.

2) It's implicit way to force the customer to spend money
towards the top trim line... by introducing introducing some
undesirable design solutions in lower trims...

Now, the hood - I do not like it either... and it seems like
in 5 series the same design solution is implemented better.
But to me it's not related to EU pedestrian requirements as
other manufacturers from EU obey the regulations but do not
make front bumer that pronounced... I think it is a form of
lowering insurance cost for the customer. If an F30 gets into
a front end collision accident, chances are - cost to restore
for the customer and ins. companies will be less as the hood
most likely will not be damaged - less cost to insure.

But afterall... those and some other things make F30 isn't
much more expensive than the outgoing e90...

[tuned2ride]

Considering that confirmed ActiveHybrid 3 and the lukewarm career of the 335d, I don't believe that they are too keen to play with diesels in USA any soon.

[asus389]

The e90 320d would have done great here. The 335d, despite being an awesome car, was too expensive. I hope they don't make the same mistake again...