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      12-20-2015, 02:44 AM   #45
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So if you plan on keeping the car after the agreement the deal doesn't do anything because increase mileage just effects whatever value you have in your car one the deal is complete?
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      12-20-2015, 02:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Thehoss
So if you plan on keeping the car after the agreement the deal doesn't do anything because increase mileage just effects whatever value you have in your car one the deal is complete?
Correct.

Though if you went way over your mileage and decided to just keep a car to save paying the excess mileage charge then this might avoid that need.
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      12-20-2015, 03:41 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Correct.

Though if you went way over your mileage and decided to just keep a car to save paying the excess mileage charge then this might avoid that need.
So if I increase the mileage it affects the GFV, so let's say my initial is 8k with a GFV of 16k, increase it to 14k and the GFV drops to 12k.

When they assess it at the end of the deal and I've only done 8k a year rather than the 16k I said, does that mean I will get charged on a higher GFV than the one linked to the lower mileage?
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      12-20-2015, 03:45 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thehoss
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Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Correct.

Though if you went way over your mileage and decided to just keep a car to save paying the excess mileage charge then this might avoid that need.
So if I increase the mileage it affects the GFV, so let's say my initial is 8k with a GFV of 16k, increase it to 14k and the GFV drops to 12k.

When they assess it at the end of the deal and I've only done 8k a year rather than the 16k I said, does that mean I will get charged on a higher GFV than the one linked to the lower mileage?
Why would you get charged for the GFV?
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      12-20-2015, 04:05 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Thehoss View Post
So if I increase the mileage it affects the GFV, so let's say my initial is 8k with a GFV of 16k, increase it to 14k and the GFV drops to 12k.

When they assess it at the end of the deal and I've only done 8k a year rather than the 16k I said, does that mean I will get charged on a higher GFV than the one linked to the lower mileage?
No the GFV stays the same, that's part of your contract.

The excess mileage charges are to offset the cars net book value with a higher than agreed mileage against the original GFV.
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      12-20-2015, 04:05 AM   #50
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Why would you get charged for the GFV?
No I mean have to pay a higher GFV
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      12-20-2015, 04:39 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkG335 View Post
I know, my indecision is ridiculous.

I went in to talk M3 for me or X3 for the wife (we me taking the 135). Truth is I want the refinement and now is not the time to buy a 5 series. It doesn't make sense to have an M3 and a 135 (Guy - it makes no sense!) and when we spoke about X3s, I'm told I can get an X5 40d for similar money.

Residuals are silly.... still worth £30k after 4 years.

We'll see, in going to borrow another demonstrator - had the 30d before so the 40d may look just add a bit.
I completely know the feeling. I swing from me getting a 5/6 and wife getting 335d, to me keeping the 335d and getting an E90 M3 for her. But then she suggests she have a look at the job market in the next year or so, in which case we need to be prepared for her commuting more often, which ruins the M3 idea.

She loves the 335d though and we want to keep it for many years yet, hence the idea for it to go to her and me get something more of a motorway cruiser. Like you I don't want to get in to a new 5 at this stage, and so getting a used 5/6 to try out for 12-24 months before buying a new 5 seems a good idea.

And I buy a 3rd car for fun... 987 Boxster S Manual top of that list.

Have you considered an X4 or X6?

I've been in a few X3's... don't think they're much better than a 3 series for on road refinement tbh
Incidentally, never looked X6 - the fact no dealer holds demo cars kind of says it all.

The X4 looks ok but no more special than a 3 and less space - no point.

The ideal would be a new 5 but for additional space (flat floor) and practicality I'm thinking a 4x4 platform - not had one for years.

The 6 would be my number 1 choice if I hade no kids but the 4 seat format doesn't suit us theses days and they are tiny in the back. Best looking BMW by far though.
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      12-20-2015, 05:01 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Ok, so I've just changed mine from 4 years/100k to 4 years/120k

Only helps if we intend to hand the car back at 48 months though, and doesn't fundamentally magic something out of nothing. Our plan is to keep the car longer anyway, so not sure it will help, but seems daft not to do should circumstances change.
I'll be calling them tomorrow, so you just say I want to increase my mileage allowance they adjust to whatever you say and then that's it?
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      12-20-2015, 07:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Ok, so I've just changed mine from 4 years/100k to 4 years/120k

Only helps if we intend to hand the car back at 48 months though, and doesn't fundamentally magic something out of nothing. Our plan is to keep the car longer anyway, so not sure it will help, but seems daft not to do should circumstances change.
I'll be calling them tomorrow, so you just say I want to increase my mileage allowance they adjust to whatever you say and then that's it?
I just said I was doing more miles than the original agreement and said I was looking to revise it upwards, and what were my options... She came back and said that it didn't matter if I was trading in or keeping it, which is true. I said I didn't know and may just hand back so ten she came back with the concessionary increase.
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      12-20-2015, 08:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
No the GFV stays the same, that's part of your contract.

The excess mileage charges are to offset the cars net book value with a higher than agreed mileage against the original GFV.
Got it.

So basically if your car goes over the mileage then it's probably better to hand or trade in because if you pay the lump sum that was calculated initially will be higher than the value of the car
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      12-20-2015, 10:04 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkG335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity
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Originally Posted by MarkG335 View Post
No?

I may be wooed
Nothing wrong with it, just the first that I'd heard of it!

I was thinking of them too, in my quest for more motorway refinement, but the consumption is a bit high relative to the performance on offer compared to a saloon or coupe, hence my 5/6 series thoughts.
I know, my indecision is ridiculous.

I went in to talk M3 for me or X3 for the wife (we me taking the 135). Truth is I want the refinement and now is not the time to buy a 5 series. It doesn't make sense to have an M3 and a 135 (Guy - it makes no sense!) and when we spoke about X3s, I'm told I can get an X5 40d for similar money.

Residuals are silly.... still worth £30k after 4 years.

We'll see, in going to borrow another demonstrator - had the 30d before so the 40d may look just add a bit.
If we didn't have the Disco we'd have an M4 Vert and an X5. So I do understand!

Disco is WAY more refined than F30 so I'm happy with getting M3 for moment as if we all do a long trip, it's in the Disco.

Very nearly pushed the button on a 740d though before ordered M3. Deals aren't good enough.

Reckon I'll keep the M3 until I can get a deal on new M5 xDrive.
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      12-20-2015, 10:49 AM   #56
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Mmmm M5 xDrive....
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      12-20-2015, 04:20 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Don't follow that at all.

The F3x range of cars are a huge step up in range of tech and general kit from the E9x cars.

Yes you are always going to have huge improvements and Gucci tech in the likes of a 7 series.

Why on earth people compare a 6 or 7 series against a 3 is beyond me, the design budget, the pre production BOM budget and final production BOM costs will dwarf what is allocated against a 3 series.

The 5 is the same, it is a level above the F3x, if the design team ever walked in to BMW main office and said the next 3 was as luxurious and comfortable as a 5 series, they would be fired.

This is why the cars above the F3x range have things like comfort seats, night vision cameras and higher quality interiors.

Both the 1 and 3 series sit in the most challenging sectors, the 1 series has an entire raft of cars to compete against including BMWs own mini.

The 3 has the Fleet sector and needs to be priced low enough to entice people in.

The 330d Sdrive and the 340i are probably some of the best all round cars it's produced.

As for the twin turbo 3.0 diesel, what's not to like about that much power coupled with a superb gearbox? A diesel doing sub 5.0 seconds ...

Just look at the lads off here's track times, fucking impressive btw.
Im sorry your wrong.

I had 2 E92's and they cut costs between the 2 cars in the same generation. Look at what the sun blinds are made of. They took out sound proofing out the engine bays. They took away the can cooler out of the arm rest. Those savings went in to the F30. The F10 BMW doesnt have any cost cutting. I buy my cars under 10k miles and i often see very little cost difference between the 3,4,5 series. You only get raped if you buy the car new.

I had a 335 for 2 weeks and i hated it. Halogen lights, wobbly suspension, road noise sucked. handling wasnt great like the coupe/vert.

3 years time i will get me a 540d with M Adaptive Suspension. This will have the handling the comfort the refinement and cabin and above all the engine hopefully without shitty xdrive.
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      12-20-2015, 05:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroFx View Post
Im sorry your wrong.

I had 2 E92's and they cut costs between the 2 cars in the same generation. Look at what the sun blinds are made of. They took out sound proofing out the engine bays. They took away the can cooler out of the arm rest. Those savings went in to the F30. The F10 BMW doesnt have any cost cutting. I buy my cars under 10k miles and i often see very little cost difference between the 3,4,5 series. You only get raped if you buy the car new.

I had a 335 for 2 weeks and i hated it. Halogen lights, wobbly suspension, road noise sucked. handling wasnt great like the coupe/vert.

3 years time i will get me a 540d with M Adaptive Suspension. This will have the handling the comfort the refinement and cabin and above all the engine hopefully without shitty xdrive.
What has the development and design costs got to to with 2nd hand car market?

Okay you did not like the 2nd hand car you bought, fair enough, handling yeah you likely would not know, however BMW halogens have always been shit, you knowing bought a 2nd hand car with halogens.....

The 5 series will have cost cutting, every design and development process does.
You design and build prototypes and pre production builds against a BOM.

Then finance etc step in and say, right do the same car to these costs.

Also buying new does not always rape you.

If you get a good discount, it alleviates that initial new drop.

For example E91 320d £21k new
Mondeo £15k (£23k without discounts).


BMW have the problem of remaining cost effective and still produce cars in Germany with its high wage bills.
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      12-20-2015, 05:13 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroFx View Post
Im sorry your wrong.

I had 2 E92's and they cut costs between the 2 cars in the same generation. Look at what the sun blinds are made of. They took out sound proofing out the engine bays. They took away the can cooler out of the arm rest. Those savings went in to the F30. The F10 BMW doesnt have any cost cutting. I buy my cars under 10k miles and i often see very little cost difference between the 3,4,5 series. You only get raped if you buy the car new.

I had a 335 for 2 weeks and i hated it. Halogen lights, wobbly suspension, road noise sucked. handling wasnt great like the coupe/vert.

3 years time i will get me a 540d with M Adaptive Suspension. This will have the handling the comfort the refinement and cabin and above all the engine hopefully without shitty xdrive.
No, *you're* wrong!

5 series definitely does have cost cutting! The M Sport seats have no width adjustment like the F30 so slim guys like me rattle about in the seats! Bonnet has old school release catch that you have to feel around with your hand under the bonnet to find, getting your hands dirty in the process, the interior dome, reading & vanity lights are all incandescent filament bulbs, not LED like the F30.

And most shockingly of all, brand new 5 series still have the old NBT pro media system, not the newer NBT EVO that the F30 has!
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      12-20-2015, 06:29 PM   #60
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No, *you're* wrong!

5 series definitely does have cost cutting! The M Sport seats have no width adjustment like the F30 so slim guys like me rattle about in the seats! Bonnet has old school release catch that you have to feel around with your hand under the bonnet to find, getting your hands dirty in the process, the interior dome, reading & vanity lights are all incandescent filament bulbs, not LED like the F30.

And most shockingly of all, brand new 5 series still have the old NBT pro media system, not the newer NBT EVO that the F30 has!
My 5 series had sides that moved in. You had a base model maybe?

Also dont forget that the F10 is older so the newer features are not in the car like the F30. They didnt take things off the car like they did with the 3 series variants. Downgrading items in the car from one model year to another.

Oh and lets not forget that most things are standard on a 530 and the 335 comes with halogens until recently...
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      12-21-2015, 03:15 AM   #61
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My 5 series had sides that moved in. You had a base model maybe?

Also dont forget that the F10 is older so the newer features are not in the car like the F30. They didnt take things off the car like they did with the 3 series variants. Downgrading items in the car from one model year to another.

Oh and lets not forget that most things are standard on a 530 and the 335 comes with halogens until recently...
Not a base model, it was an M Sport. It was an LCI 5 series, built in September 2015!
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      12-21-2015, 03:19 AM   #62
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      12-21-2015, 03:48 AM   #63
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Could we go back for some On Topic

Could anyone who calls up in the next few days ask if there is any minimum period that needs to have run on the PCP deal before taking this up?

I'm in the dangerous position of about to sign finance docs etc. If I can I will go 8k/10k mpa then call the next week once paperwork has gone through to up it to 25k mpa!

If there's a risk that will cost more than making the original deal at 20k mpa I will just sign up when collecting the car to the 20k mpa.

It feels like they're going to close this loophole any minute!
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      12-21-2015, 06:21 AM   #64
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OK, so, I am reading these posts about changing the mileage allowance on your agreement, but I am not really understanding them in so far as how it changes the "optional final payment" (OFP)...

When we all set up our PCP's, the OFP was set as a function of, basically, the length of term, annual estimated mileage and the spec of car... If you want to purchase at the end of the term, that's the figure you will pay to own the car... It is part of the credit agreement we signed and forms part of the "total amount payable"...

What they do, if you hand the car back, is to waive the OFP in lieu of their taking the car back...

Ok, so, am I reading the above posts correctly, if you get a concessionary change in mileage, it is being suggested that they will (consequently) lower the "Guaranteed Future Value" (GFV) (I cannot see that term in my finance agreement)...

What I do not understand is how this affects the OFP... Are we saying, in these posts, that OFP and GFV are interchangeable terms..?

To be honest, I cannot see the OFP changing... I mean, why would it..? Why would they ask for less at the end of the term than we agreed to pay..?

My guess is that they are offering a concessionary waiving of the excess mileage charges... Which is still worth having, of course....

Be interested to hear more...
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      12-21-2015, 06:32 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by DaveA View Post
OK, so, I am reading these posts about changing the mileage allowance on your agreement, but I am not really understanding them in so far as how it changes the "optional final payment" (OFP)...

When we all set up our PCP's, the OFP was set as a function of, basically, the length of term, annual estimated mileage and the spec of car... If you want to purchase at the end of the term, that's the figure you will pay to own the car... It is part of the credit agreement we signed and forms part of the "total amount payable"...

What they do, if you hand the car back, is to waive the OFP in lieu of their taking the car back...

Ok, so, am I reading the above posts correctly, if you get a concessionary change in mileage, it is being suggested that they will (consequently) lower the "Guaranteed Future Value" (GFV) (I cannot see that term in my finance agreement)...

What I do not understand is how this affects the OFP... Are we saying, in these posts, that OFP and GFV are interchangeable terms..?

To be honest, I cannot see the OFP changing... I mean, why would it..? Why would they ask for less at the end of the term than we agreed to pay..?

My guess is that they are offering a concessionary waiving of the excess mileage charges... Which is still worth having, of course....

Be interested to hear more...
It doesn't, so you still need to make this same final payment to own it, and they don't change the MGFV, so you know that you can go over your mileage without penalty if just handing back. So you're understanding is spot on.
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      12-21-2015, 06:39 AM   #66
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It doesn't, so you still need to make this same final payment to own it, and they don't change the MGFV, so you know that you can go over your mileage without penalty if just handing back. So you're understanding is spot on.
Thanks for confirming..

I thought I was going daft, when reading through, but it makes sense now...

So, the advice is, if you are creeping over, is simply to call them and ask for the concessionary change in mileage allowance so you can avoid the excess charges at the end of the term (or if you VT beforehand..)...
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