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View Poll Results: Which 3-series would you reco for Chicago weather?
RWD 24 18.46%
xD 56 43.08%
Doesn't matter - RWD is sufficient 50 38.46%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-19-2012, 08:21 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Scott View Post
If money is an issue take it easy out there and go RWD and snow tires. If not go xDrive. There is very little or no sex left in RWD as a default for drive feel these days since the xDrive is virtually perfected. And xDrive is EXCELLENT in slippery conditions.
Unless you live in an area that receives snowfall over several months, why spend 90-95% of the year living with the negatives of Xdrive: the raised stance, the lack of sport suspension, the extra weight over the front wheels, the increased fuel consumption, the increased turning radius, the compromised steering feel and the extra expense ($2500 in Canada or $2000 in the USA) ?

The truth is that BMW and their dealers have done a wonderful sales job convincing many folks that Xdrive is a necessity for getting around in winter conditions. Of course, BMW makes considerably more profit per Xdrive vehicle sold than RWD ! So, why wouldn't they emphasize Xdrive ?
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Last edited by DerekS; 12-19-2012 at 08:28 PM..
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      12-19-2012, 08:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Audi is made in Germany as well, and they understand that AWD is a better than RWD in the snow. BMW choose not to include sport suspension in their AWD cars, but that doesnt mean an AWD car cannot be sporty. In fact, there are many AWD sport cars out there that can out handle their RWD counterparts.

Nissan GTR, Bugatti Veyron, Lamborghini Murcielago ... Audi R8? Well, obviously, none of those are sporty.

I don't get BMW's philosophy on this one.
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      12-19-2012, 08:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by m630 View Post
xdrive is no better unless it too has snow tires, its the tires that make the difference, i drive the M6 all year round with a good set of snow tires for the winter, did the same with my former 645ci and no issues. Id always say RWD is best.

Well, you probably drive on plowed and salted roads. Some of us have to get around in the actual snowy roads, in the thick of the storm.


I have no confidence in RWD cars with snow tires, especially if the roads have not been plowed. Been there, done that, never again. I always hear "yes, RWD + snow tires drive fine" but my experience has only been the contrary. Especially on inclines and snowy conditions. Snow tires are no guarantee either, they still slip and loose traction. When they do, the car fishtails, and before you know it, you're in a ditch somewhere. At least the xDrive will straighten itself out by shift ing power to the front wheels.


And the kicker? The snow tires did stop better than the all seasons, but were also prone to slippage and sliding. BMW recommended Michelin Aplin's.


I'm not discounting anyone's experience here, just presenting a counter one.
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      12-19-2012, 08:36 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shantanu79 View Post
Hello BMW Experts - Would you recommend the new 3-series sport rwd for people living in Chicago? Or is it better to go with the xD?

Thx,
Shantanu
Hey i have rwd f30 m sport staggered set up with all seasons, i willl tell you in 2 days how it drives in the snow, we are expecting 4-6 inches in the next two days
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      12-19-2012, 08:38 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
I just don't get the need for AWD in flat populated areas. On average you might be able to take advatage of the AWD for 10 days a year? 15? The other 350 plus days you get lowered performance, lower fuel economy, and spend more up front. If you do get in a accident in snowy weather, there's a good chance it will be caused by some idiot in AWD/4WD going too fast. It happens all the time.

Negative. The all wheel drive still works in wet conditions, icy conditions and also happens to get you off the line faster. I still agree that it is a compromise to RWD as far as performance is concerned, but so is the whole concept of a sport "sedan". RWD for me is a peace of mind. I'm not cornering my car all the way to work, and don't mind spending an extra buck of two every time I fill up. The only gripe I have with BMW's xDrive is the ride height and lack of sport suspension. That's about all you can hold against the system. Other than that, it's solid.


This coming from the guy driving a RWD 330i for the past couple of years. My next car will be an xDrive.
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      12-19-2012, 08:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
It really depends on your need, if you can skip work or work at home during a snow strom, then RWD with snow is fine. I am condering an essential personel where I work I need to be there rain or shine. In my situation, AWD is a bit better than RWD. If its a real bad winter, I still have the option of installing snow tires on my AWD.


Exactly. If you need to be there, right now, rain or shine, you need AWD. If you can wait a storm out, give the plows time to be through before you, you maybe able to wing it on snow tires + RWD. I promised myself not to take that risk anymore.
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      12-21-2012, 06:22 AM   #51
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xDrive + snow tires isn't just for getting you around town, it is for hauling big objects.


Anyone want to try this with RWD and "a good set of snow tires"?





Seems to be a diesel engine too.
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      12-21-2012, 06:29 AM   #52
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Just going to jump in and say that snow tires take precedence over AWD. AWD will help (and I ordered my 335i with xDrive) but unless you've mounted snow tires on it, all you'll be doing is spinning four wheels instead of two.

Driving on a slippery surface is entirely about maximizing traction, and if you don't have it at the wheels (the only contact point with the road's surface) then no amount of engineering will help you.

So, whether its RWD, FWD, or AWD, you need proper tires. Period. Only then can you discuss the benefits of one drive mode over the other. =)
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      12-21-2012, 07:18 AM   #53
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On equal tires AWD obliterates RWD in the snow and it's not even close. There is a reason everybody who has to deal with snowy conditions as part of their job is in an AWD car or a 4x4 truck, and why AWD has dominated rally racing for decades. It's simply better.

How much it makes up for differences in tires is open to debate. In my experience AWD+all-seasons is adequate in light snow if you aren't driving like an idiot, while RWD+all seasons in even light snow is complete shit. Braking in snow is almost entirely down to tires and is the biggest reason you need adequate tires for the conditions.
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      12-21-2012, 08:28 AM   #54
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Snow Driving

My Beast needs X Drive. Last 2 weeks we got freezing rain, heavy snow, winds etc. daily. My 2010 323i rear wheel drive was manageable, but driving in these conditions daily I would highly recommend X Drive and 4 very good snow tires. Practicing in a empty parking lot helps. Using fog lights is a good idea. Following a plow is a better idea. And a emergency snow kit.
In most U.S. cities in the snow belt 4 good tires would save your ass!
I keep my old winter tires from my 323 in the garage. Ready for the 320d when BMW finally brings it to North America.
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      12-21-2012, 01:57 PM   #55
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2013 BMW 323iX Sport.
This must be a mistake.... doesn't exist AFAIK.
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      12-21-2012, 03:29 PM   #56
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We got some good snow today and I'm very happy with how xDrive performed with my Pirelli all-seasons!
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      12-21-2012, 03:53 PM   #57
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The RWD vs. AWD debate aside, I will ALWAYS use winter tires no matter the car's drivetrain. Being able to stop effectively is infinitely more important to me than accelerating. I've never had a "nervous" moment in a car because the car wasn't accelerating fast enough, but they happen to people routinely because they can't stop.

A second set of wheels/tires is cheap (considering what board we are on), I don't know why anyone would even question buying them? Especially when you spread the cost out over five years or so - and account for the extra "life" your summer-time set will have.

Last edited by CirrusSR22; 12-21-2012 at 04:05 PM..
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      12-21-2012, 04:08 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shantanu79
Hello BMW Experts - Would you recommend the new 3-series sport rwd for people living in Chicago? Or is it better to go with the xD?

Thx,
Shantanu
Man I live in CT and drove in a snow storm with the all seasons....with the snow tires on, a different situation and perfectly stable.
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      12-21-2012, 05:11 PM   #59
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First post here, but been lurking. Thanks for all the good info.

My first BMW, a 2013 328i with Xdrive, is currently on the Swift Ace, heading across the Atlantic.

I settled on AWD even though it meant giving up the manual, which was a tough choice for me. While the weather here in southern New England seems milder than it did a few years ago, it's really the terrain that causes problems. I have the driveway from hell, and I'm tired of parking at the bottom when we have an inch of snow.

Also, my driving style is sedate, so I probably won't miss the incremental improvement in handling I would have enjoyed with RWD. (Don't even really know how substantial the difference is.)

It does seem to me, however, that this decision is a lot like the lease versus buy question. People come at it in different ways and reach different, but equally valid, conclusions.
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      12-21-2012, 05:15 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CirrusSR22 View Post
The RWD vs. AWD debate aside, I will ALWAYS use winter tires no matter the car's drivetrain. Being able to stop effectively is infinitely more important to me than accelerating. I've never had a "nervous" moment in a car because the car wasn't accelerating fast enough, but they happen to people routinely because they can't stop.

A second set of wheels/tires is cheap (considering what board we are on), I don't know why anyone would even question buying them? Especially when you spread the cost out over five years or so - and account for the extra "life" your summer-time set will have.
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      12-21-2012, 07:43 PM   #61
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I drove a E90 rwd from 2005 to 2009 and E92 from 2009 to 2012. Just got a f30 xdrive. I never got use to driving in the snow with rwd even with a good set of winter tires. Unless you live in flat area thet doesn't get a lot of snow you should be ok with rwd. Otherwise, I highly recommend getting awd. It's much safer.
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      12-21-2012, 07:46 PM   #62
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xdrive is dead weight. I would get it it only in remote regions and Chicago does not qualify at all.. I have a RWD E90 with snow tires in a much worse environment and it is a joy to drive in the snow. The electronics TC/ESP does wonder.
I completely agree...I literally have used AWD in CT 8 times. That's why I decided, when looking for a car, that a purist sporty RWD experience was needed...driving my brothers 135i in the snow with snow tires built up my confidence, and with the electronic aids now, the xDrive premium+lack of parts (sport suspension, etc.) made the choice easy.
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      12-22-2012, 06:58 AM   #63
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I've not been able to find anything that directly compares the handling of the F30 in RWD and AWD. Has anyone driven both sufficiently to know how substantial the difference is?

As far as mileage goes, the two are essentially identical (if the EPA is to be believed).
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      12-22-2012, 07:02 AM   #64
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This must be a mistake.... doesn't exist AFAIK.
Correct, should read 328iX Sport
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      12-22-2012, 08:30 AM   #65
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In my neck of the woods, and under my specific set of driving conditions (Northeast USA, roughly 20-30 snow days and roughly 40-50 inches of snow accumulation per year, lots of hills/inclines and almost no flat roads):

AWD+Snow Tires > AWD+All Seasons > RWD+Snow Tires > RWD+All Seasons


My RWD car with snow tires
  • Still slid at intersections upon braking
  • Broke traction and fishtailed with acceleration (until DSC kicked in and cut it off)
  • Was not very competent in climbing hills in snowy/icy conditions (rocks back and forth)


On the other hand, AWD with all seasons
  • Performed about on par with RWD+snow, with the exception being some compromise in braking distance
  • MUCH better grip in both dry and wet rainy conditions
  • What you gain with AWD, is more stability, much improved hill ascent, no fishtailing, better acceleration, easier maneuverability when stuck in snowy conditions (leaving a parking space when snowed-in at work or at the grocery store)


One must also take into consideration the resale value of the vehicle. In a "snow-winter" market, a RWD car is a tough sell. You will get killed on re-sale. And vice versa. xDrive cars are sitting ducks on used cart lots in "sunny-summery" markets.


In my experience, contrary to what some claim, RWD with dedicated snow tires did not perform significantly better than xDrive on all seasons in any regards. For the most part, it was worse. RWD+snow tires "should" perform better on paper, but when called upon, they did not perform better in real life conditions. I understand the technicalities of why snow tires should perform better, but that failed to translate to a better driving experience in real practical life. It just did not (speaking for myself at least).


Given my prior experiences (e46 330xi with all seasons AND my e90 330i with snow tires), I chose xDrive for my next car.
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      12-22-2012, 09:02 AM   #66
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shicobico, that has been my experience as well. having owned both AWD with all season and RWD with snow, AWD feels a lot more stable in slippery condition, much better in heavy rain than RWD as well. In the snow, RWD with snow did stop a bit better, but a set of aggressive all season will brake almost as good in the snow. For the kind of weather we have in New England in the early or late winter, some days it can be snowing and the next week it can be in the 50s. There is nothing worst than driving around in snow tires whem the temp is in the 50s.
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