[BMWCali]

Don't know about you guys, but where I live is pretty flat. 95 times out of 100, I'm parked on a perfectly flat level surface. Even if the car was in neutral with no brake on it probably wouldn't go anywhere. The amount of strain on the transmission on a level surface is practically nothing and something which I guarantee the Park mechanism was designed for, otherwise it wouldn't be there.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomer123

Love your signature, Rob btw

+1 on the sig

that car obviously broke the butt dyno. thats a minimum 1000hp to the rear wheels LOL

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Don't know about you guys, but where I live is pretty flat. 95 times out of 100, I'm parked on a perfectly flat level surface. Even if the car was in neutral with no brake on it probably wouldn't go anywhere. The amount of strain on the transmission on a level surface is practically nothing and something which I guarantee the Park mechanism was designed for, otherwise it wouldn't be there.

if you were parked and your car was in first gear (MT) and your parking brake was not up and your car gets pushed and gears grind and uh oh.

[AWF30MSPORT]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Don't know about you guys, but where I live is pretty flat. 95 times out of 100, I'm parked on a perfectly flat level surface. Even if the car was in neutral with no brake on it probably wouldn't go anywhere. The amount of strain on the transmission on a level surface is practically nothing and something which I guarantee the Park mechanism was designed for, otherwise it wouldn't be there.

Flat surface or not, what is so difficult about maintaining the habit of applying the parking brake, as the car is designed to be parked? I'm not trying to troll or argue- just curious why anyone WOULDN'T use it? It takes all of 1 or 2 seconds.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by zeezz

Actually, I know a lot of people that do (including me). It looks like BMW is not particular about the order, however.

Here's what the F30 manual says for 'stopping the engine' (pg 61)

Set the parking brake firmly when parking; oth‐
erwise, the vehicle could roll. On steep upward
and downward inclines, further secure the vehi‐
cle, for example, by turning the steering wheel in
the direction of the curb.

Switching off the engine
1. Engage transmission position P with the ve‐
hicle stopped.
2. Press the Start/Stop button.
The engine is switched off.
The radio ready state is switched on.
3. Set the parking brake.

I understand the added security of using the parking brake with an AT.
It's logical and makes sense.
And, manufacturers recommend that the PP be applied before engaging "park" and engaging the parking pawl.
The pawl does wear over time with use, and regular use in hilly terrain will stress and wear it more over time.

The poster does have a point that most in the US, who live on flat lands, don't use their parking brakes on a regular basis.
I'm sure it may be different in places that have a hilly terrain. If I lived in those types of areas I would use the PP even with an AT.

It does seem that Europeans tend to use the PP even with AT more so.
Maybe they use it more often because of the logic behind it, or because AT's were not the norm, as most preferred MT. The trend towards AT in Euro markets has steadily increased, and perhaps the MT habit of using the PP has followed the changing preference. Could be.'
It is the proper way to "park".

I've been driving MT for decades with 1 AT thrown in. I never used the PP with that car. I also don't engage the PP when I drive others AT's, as they don't use it either. I live in the flats of the Chicago area scrubbed by glaciers long ago.
I'm getting the sport AT with my 335i. It'll be a big change for me.
I'm wasn't inclined to use the PP.
But this thread has me questioning that. I could just use that habit from driving MT's all these years, and just apply the PP when I park.
With MT and parking, I come to a stop, clutch in, engage 1st, clutch still in, apply PP, turn off engine, release brake then clutch. With AT it's an even simpler procedure.

Good thread. It brought up something I wasn't even considering, but there is value to using the PP properly with AT.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by lukeb817

Flat surface or not, what is so difficult about maintaining the habit of applying the parking brake, as the car is designed to parked? I'm not trying to troll or argue- just curious why anyone WOULDN'T use it?

i leave mine in neutral on a slope. i just turn the wheel left when downhill and straight when uphill LOL

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Yobyot

Not using the hand brake is mildly insane: you are relying on the transmission to hold the car instead of the brakes.

In ATs, the parking prawl is among the most delicate parts of the transmission and in an MT, putting the whole weight of the car on a gear can also lead to premature wear.

In fact, many people will apply the parking brake BEFORE putting the car in park to ensure that the weight of the car is on the brakes, not the transmission.

As I think about this issue more, I recall a time in the US when pretty much all US made cars with AT had that stupid foot operated PP.
I hated those things, and I wonder if their bad design was/is a reason why so many in the US still don't use their PP with their AT's.
A hand operated PP just feels easier and better for the task of applying the PP.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by RPM90

As I think about this issue more, I recall a time in the US when pretty much all US made cars with AT had that stupid foot operated PP.
I hated those things, and I wonder if their bad design was/is a reason why so many in the US still don't use their PP with their AT's.
A hand operated PP just feels easier and better for the task of applying the PP.

MBZ is still a foot pedal
VW is actually a little button. there is also an auto lock function which keeps the car still unless you press the gas pedal. when you release the gas, it stays still again. awesome for bumper to bumper.

[BMWCali]

I'm still not convinced. If this is the way BMW wanted it, they would have the handbrake automatically engage when you put the car in Park and the car would auto engage the handbrake before activating the PP once you put the transmission into Park.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by lukeb817

Flat surface or not, what is so difficult about maintaining the habit of applying the parking brake, as the car is designed to be parked? I'm not trying to troll or argue- just curious why anyone WOULDN'T use it? It takes all of 1 or 2 seconds.

I ALWAYS leave the car parked in first gear, NOT using the handbrake. Learned that from experience during wintertime(below zero temperatures) with the handbrake on it sometimes is difficult/almost impossible to pull it out/let go of the hanbrake .... been there done that. That's my argument not to use the handbrake on a parked manual car anymore.

Cheers
Robin

[ric124]

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

Oh boy... i confused my right from my left...!!

maybe it wasn't such a good idea for me to buy a manual transmission...

Somebody is having fun!!!

Initial D style

[rconti]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

if you were parked and your car was in first gear (MT) and your parking brake was not up and your car gets pushed and gears grind and uh oh.

Gears grind? Why would the gears grind when the transmission is engaged?

I always use the handbrake, because, why not?

But 1st gear in the car is DESIGNED for accelerative/decelative stress. "P" in a slushbox is not a gear, it's not designed to move the full weight of the car. Yeah, it's probably okay to not use the parking brake, but again, why intentionally do it wrong?

[AWF30MSPORT]

Originally Posted by rconti

...I always use the handbrake, because, why not?

...Yeah, it's probably okay to not use the parking brake, but again, why intentionally do it wrong?

+1

[AWF30MSPORT]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

I'm still not convinced. If this is the way BMW wanted it, they would have the handbrake automatically engage when you put the car in Park and the car would auto engage the handbrake before activating the PP once you put the transmission into Park.

Page 61 of the F30 manual-which I believe is a pretty clear indication of BMW's intentions. Just because it isn't automated doesn't mean that BMW doesn't intend for it to be used.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by rconti

Gears grind? Why would the gears grind when the transmission is engaged?

I always use the handbrake, because, why not?

But 1st gear in the car is DESIGNED for accelerative/decelative stress. "P" in a slushbox is not a gear, it's not designed to move the full weight of the car. Yeah, it's probably okay to not use the parking brake, but again, why intentionally do it wrong?

oops.....why was i thinking if the car were to be towed in 1st?

[oyezoyez]

Does all this mean we should reverse the process on starting? Ignition on, foot on brake, into D or R, release the handbrake, foot off brake?

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by oyezoyez

Does all this mean we should reverse the process on starting? Ignition on, foot on brake, into D or R, release the handbrake, foot off brake?

car wont start without the brake though right?

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by RPM90

It does seem that Europeans tend to use the PP even with AT more so.

For us here in the UK, applying the handbrake before exiting the vehicle is part of the Highway Code, and something the examiner would expect to see on the test, so it's drilled into us from an early age.

Parking
239

Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible.

If you have to stop on the roadside:

• do not park facing against the traffic flow
• stop as close as you can to the side
• do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge – remember, the occupant may need more room to get in or out
• you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights
• you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle
• you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door – check for cyclists or other traffic
• it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb
• put all valuables out of sight and make sure your vehicle is secure
• lock your vehicle

Actually looking at that list after all these years, seems like they're preaching commonsense to us

[Elk]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Actually looking at that list after all these years, seems like they're preaching commonsense to us

Scary, isn't it?

[mindwaste]

hey guys dont mean to flog a dead horse but i noticed some of you mention:

1. foot on brake pedal
2. set parking break
3. set transmission to P
4. let go of brake pedal

(thats what I do currently) but some of you have also linked the bmw manual that says put the transmission to P , turn engine off and THEN put the parking break on.

Which one is correct?

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by mindwaste

hey guys dont mean to flog a dead horse but i noticed some of you mention:

1. foot on brake pedal
2. set parking break
3. set transmission to P
4. let go of brake pedal

(thats what I do currently) but some of you have also linked the bmw manual that says put the transmission to P , turn engine off and THEN put the parking break on.

Which one is correct?

Basically, the main thing is to set the parking brake before letting go of the brake pedal.

[Monkeycmonkeydo]

I have been hit by a driverless vehicle travelling down a street through an intersection and into my car in a gas station driveway. It had been parked with the P in automatic but no handbrake. This was on an almost flat street. Owner of car was at work and had a nice insurance claim and accident on his record for simply not pulling the handbrake.

Why this is even a debate is beyond me?