[metrathon]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Spoke with my service tech today. So far, they replaced windshield a-pillar mouldings and door seals. They taped the doors completely shut and tried it. No improvements noted. Still working away on it, but I'm losing optimism that it is fixable. The odd thing is that he says himself that he has driven other 3's that have NO wind noise so it's a bit of a mystery. At least they are good to deal with and not just brushing it off. They have had the car two weeks now trying to diagnose it. i have already told them if it is not fixable, I will be selling it and changing brands after having 4 BMW products.

That's pretty much what I thought, that it won't be fixable. But how come some cars have this problem, other don't? What is the cause of the noise? Different components, different assembly?

And even if you sell this one and get another 3 series, how can you know the next one won't have the same problem? Assuming you are ordering and not pick of the lot. It sucks big time.

I'm wondering if you can request to have the car changed, if you can prove through acoustical measurements, that your car is noisier than other 3 series. That might be very hard to do though.

[bluemark81]

Don't need to prove it. They admit it is noisier than some others. However, if I sell, I will not get another 3 unless I can find a E90.

[F30AM]

Well, after 6 months of use on our pock marked tarmac, I must happily report I have little or no road roar, no wind noise, no steering or suspension noise, no brake screech, no internal rattles. Plus, it rides like a dream on 18" wheels. In fact, the car is eerily quiet at high speeds. So pretty near perfect. Long may it continue.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Well, after 6 months of use on our pock marked tarmac, I must happily report I have little or no road roar, no wind noise, no steering or suspension noise, no brake screech, no internal rattles. Plus, it rides like a dream on 18" wheels. In fact, the car is eerily quiet at high speeds. So pretty near perfect. Long may it continue.

I'm sorry, but I have such a hard time believing there is such a difference between people like you and others like myself. What the heck is going on with these cars?

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

I'm sorry, but I have such a hard time believing there is such a difference between people like you and others like myself. What the heck is going on with these cars?

I think much of it is personal sensitivity to sounds.
My 335i Msport doesn't have wind noise. I recently developed a creak noise somewhere around the center dash and glove box, but it's only loud when it's cold and in the morning when I have the audio turned down low.
IOW, I'm not too bothered by it, but others may find it quite annoying, and frankly no one expects creaking noises at this level of automobile.

My biggest complaint about noise is the overall tire/road roar that comes mainly from the back seat area, which is odd.
It's at it's worst on concrete roads and highway.
But, it sounds to me like it's a lack of sound proofing.
My 335i is about as loud road noise wise as my 135i, and the 135i may have actually been a bit quieter. I was very surprised during my test drives to notice that all the F30's I drove sounded like this.

Overall the interior volume of exterior sounds is too much and is a negative.
My 06 A4 was quieter, and the E90's I've driven seemed a good bit quieter too.
I do think it's personal threshold as to how severe one thinks it is.
I love driving with my driver and driver rear windows down even on the highway. So of course it's very loud for obvious reasons and I cant' complain in that situation. But when I roll the windows up I expect more serenity than I'm getting. Oh well, maybe next time BMW will fix that while they're fixing the steering feel and softish sport suspension.
We'll see, and hear.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I think much of it is personal sensitivity to sounds.
My 335i Msport doesn't have wind noise. I recently developed a creak noise somewhere around the center dash and glove box, but it's only loud when it's cold and in the morning when I have the audio turned down low.
IOW, I'm not too bothered by it, but others may find it quite annoying, and frankly no one expects creaking noises at this level of automobile.

My biggest complaint about noise is the overall tire/road roar that comes mainly from the back seat area, which is odd.
It's at it's worst on concrete roads and highway.
But, it sounds to me like it's a lack of sound proofing.
My 335i is about as loud road noise wise as my 135i, and the 135i may have actually been a bit quieter. I was very surprised during my test drives to notice that all the F30's I drove sounded like this.

Overall the interior volume of exterior sounds is too much and is a negative.
My 06 A4 was quieter, and the E90's I've driven seemed a good bit quieter too.
I do think it's personal threshold as to how severe one thinks it is.
I love driving with my driver and driver rear windows down even on the highway. So of course it's very loud for obvious reasons and I cant' complain in that situation. But when I roll the windows up I expect more serenity than I'm getting. Oh well, maybe next time BMW will fix that while they're fixing the steering feel and softish sport suspension.
We'll see, and hear.

All I can say is with years of development and testing that takes place in new vehicles today, these issues should be addressed prior to these automobiles coming to market. It is a big negative for BMW's volume seller. I, for one will be looking to one of the competitors after being very satisfied with 3 previous BMW products. People should be fired for this thing, and my guess would be the bean counters.

[python]

To get more info, it seems that we could do an experiment.

We could agree to use a smart phone app that measures decibels, drive at highway speeds with smart phone in same location like center console, and report back decibels. (of course, driving situations differ, and even apps give different data, but it's a start.)

Is that worthwhile?

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by python

To get more info, it seems that we could do an experiment.

We could agree to use a smart phone app that measures decibels, drive at highway speeds with smart phone in same location like center console, and report back decibels. (of course, driving situations differ, and even apps give different data, but it's a start.)

Is that worthwhile?

That was already suggested on another forum. I provided my results, but I don't believe it took off?

[CKau]

I seem to have made a discovery of sorts and thought to post in case this helps anyone else with road noise issues.

In summary:
1. Put some sound deadening material in the gap where the dash meets the windshield
2. Put some sound deadening material (like a sock) in the hole in the suspension tower.

It all started when I took my car to a local BMW service centre two weeks ago and sat as a passenger in my car rather than drive to diagnose the noise issue. The tech said there was nothing wrong with the car, but I noticed that the road noise was significantly less on the front passenger seat than the driver’s!

It got me thinking as I noticed that all my passengers thought I was nuts to complain about the car. It explained why I was complaining like crazy and my passengers thought I was anal... the drivers seat simply suffers more noise than elsewhere in the cabin!!!

Note that my vehicle has the steering wheel on the right, so I’m saying the left side of the car sounded quieter.

After washing my car these past two weekends and carefully inspecting the door seals, windscreen seals and other body components, it still amazes me that after all the effort BMW have spent designing and building the car that it’s this noisy. I thought long & hard that I might have missed something. My windshield seals are fine & the double door seals definitely align.


I then remembered in another thread someone complaining about losing parking meter tickets between the dash and windshield. So I ran an experiment and put a cloth where that gap was. Sure enough, there was a minor reduction in the wooshing noise. However, there was still a ton of road noise entering the cabin.

I then carefully inspected the front wheel wells and found that there was no lining where cables run from the engine bay to the suspension struts and brakes. However, these have been coated in sound proofing rubber.


I then noticed that the front half of the wheel arch is not sound deadening material, but plastic. I then noticed that on the engine bay side, this plastic is visible !!! I had a shock!! I was expecting to see metal in front of the suspension tower, but I saw the other side of the plastic!!! I figured that this might be responsible for a bit of noise, but is likely a BMW weight saving measure. (see following pic)




This may be a source of some noise... but read on...


Upon further searching I discovered that on the side of the suspension towers, as I’m looking at the engine the left side has a hole masked by a metal shield.



However, on the right side, the same hole in the suspension tower is exposed (see the red circle below).



This gap leads directly to the left front wheel and suspension strut… in other words, I figured here was a way of road noise getting through the firewall of the cabin!

I theorised that to reduce the road noise means plugging it up. It made sense to me as the sound could be heard from the right side of the vehicle, not the left i.e. the hole is facing the right side and therefore directing the road noise to the right side (even though the left front tyre is generating the noise). So I literally put a sock in it… lo and behold… road noise has been noticeably reduced!!!

I was sooo happy… when I drove on what I knew was a quiet freeway, the drive was more hushed.

What I’ve done is rolled up two woollen socks and placed into the hole. I am planning on putting some solid sound deadening material made out of compacted wool that I bought at a hardware store used to protect wooden floors from furniture. However, I’m not sure if it will disrupt the black solid bar (marked in blue below). Anyone know what this is? It looks to me like it may be the hydraulics or electronic circuiltry for the brakes. I just hope it isn’t some sensor that actually needs to move (which might explain why BMW cut such a massive hole in the suspension tower).



As for the gap between the dash & windshield, I bought some insulating foam used to insulate doors & windows from draughts. It isn’t doing as good a job as the old cloth, so I’ll try a higher density foam & see how that goes. I'll update you on my progress.

Anyway, sigh of relief that I’ve finally gotten somewhere. I hope that a few of you suffering the noise issues benefit from the research I have done.

My next step is to have my sunroof re-aligned. I remember reading someone mentioning that as a fix.

The front half of the plastic wheel well could be another candidate for sound deadening if I'm not happy enough, but so far so good.

[CKau]

Hey all, I've posted my solution in another thread about reducing road roar, but the same solution seems to reduce the wooshing noise creating by the wheels spinning.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...8#post14013818

The difference is night and day!! There is substantially less road noise and wind noise generated by the wheel spinning. I'm soooo happy that my hypothesis on cause & solution were correct!!

I finally felt that I could enjoy the car for once instead of having that nagging thought that my car is dreadfully noisy. What a huuuge relief!

[steve zzr]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Well, after 6 months of use on our pock marked tarmac, I must happily report I have little or no road roar, no wind noise, no steering or suspension noise, no brake screech, no internal rattles. Plus, it rides like a dream on 18" wheels. In fact, the car is eerily quiet at high speeds. So pretty near perfect. Long may it continue.

I think you must be deaf,
my first 330d se on bridgestones was bad on road noise,
but the second one a 330d se with m-sport adaptive on conti's is a lot worst.
both on 17" rims, my 06 vectra was much more refined! no kidding.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by steve zzr

I think you must be deaf,
my first 330d se on bridgestones was bad on road noise,
but the second one a 330d se with m-sport adaptive on conti's is a lot worst.
both on 17" rims, my 06 vectra was much more refined! no kidding.

Haha, I don't think he's deaf. After doing so much reading, I think there is a STRONG possibility that only some cars suffer from this noise problem. Maybe the early production, or some defective batch of fill-in-here, or poor QA, I don't know.

I think every owner saying they have noise issues should test drive a MY 14 car and see if it's quieter. I will definitely do that. I'll go to three different BMW dealers and test three different MY 14 cars.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Haha, I don't think he's deaf. After doing so much reading, I think there is a STRONG possibility that only some cars suffer from this noise problem. Maybe the early production, or some defective batch of fill-in-here, or poor QA, I don't know.

I think every owner saying they have noise issues should test drive a MY 14 car and see if it's quieter. I will definitely do that. I'll go to three different BMW dealers and test three different MY 14 cars.

When are the MY 14 cars due to hit the lots?

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

When are the MY 14 cars due to hit the lots?

Dunno. Maybe July?

[bluemark81]

Got my car back today. The door seals were not replaced but they say they adjusted the doors and windows. I will say the wind noise is not as obtrusive, but I still believe there is room for improvement. What I do notice now is that the passenger side wind noise seems to be more obvious now that the drivers side is reduced. I can probably live with it now anyway. Passing vehicles are now muffled and don't sound as though the door is ajar.

[xit2050]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Got my car back today. The door seals were not replaced but they say they adjusted the doors and windows. I will say the wind noise is not as obtrusive, but I still believe there is room for improvement. What I do notice now is that the passenger side wind noise seems to be more obvious now that the drivers side is reduced. I can probably live with it now anyway. Passing vehicles are now muffled and don't sound as though the door is ajar.

Are you still using the backer rod or did you take it out?
My car is scheduled at the dealer in 2 weeks... I have discovered a gap between the window and the upper frame on the driver's side. Don't know if that will fix my wind noise.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by xit2050

Are you still using the backer rod or did you take it out?
My car is scheduled at the dealer in 2 weeks... I have discovered a gap between the window and the upper frame on the driver's side. Don't know if that will fix my wind noise.

No, I've removed the backer rod. Driving the car for a few days since getting it back confirms it is much improved. It is actually quite quiet most times. The road surface does have a big impact, but even that is better than before.

[CNSYYC]

My '13 F30 MSport has been in the shop for 4 days now while they try to diagnose the wind noise coming from the passenger's and driver's windows.
Word today is that the window guides are being replaced.

More to follow soon (I hope).

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by CNSYYC

My '13 F30 MSport has been in the shop for 4 days now while they try to diagnose the wind noise coming from the passenger's and driver's windows.
Word today is that the window guides are being replaced.

More to follow soon (I hope).

Seems self explanatory, but can you try to get a detailed explanation of the window guides if it works? Perhaps mine could even be made to be quieter than they've already accomplished.

[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

All I can say is with years of development and testing that takes place in new vehicles today, these issues should be addressed prior to these automobiles coming to market. It is a big negative for BMW's volume seller. I, for one will be looking to one of the competitors after being very satisfied with 3 previous BMW products. People should be fired for this thing, and my guess would be the bean counters.

Yes and no. Part of it is that with these cars having more security reinforcement something has to give. Try to imagine what these cars would weigh if it had thick metal doors/panels like the old bimmers. Also with increased width tires and lower profile, insulation would have to be added. BMW and others have used thinner panels to reduce weight, and limited insulation also otherwise these cars would weigh a tonne. Don't forget these cars are much larger than your previous 3er. This goes for all the German brands not just BMW. Sometimes just small misalignment in the panels will result in wind noise. The problem with this is it can't really be fixed.
The only thing you could do is ask BMW to get the regional manager to come in and see what they can do for you to figure it out or buyout your vehicle.

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Well, after 6 months of use on our pock marked tarmac, I must happily report I have little or no road roar, no wind noise, no steering or suspension noise, no brake screech, no internal rattles. Plus, it rides like a dream on 18" wheels. In fact, the car is eerily quiet at high speeds. So pretty near perfect. Long may it continue.

Originally Posted by steve zzr

I think you must be deaf,
my first 330d se on bridgestones was bad on road noise,
but the second one a 330d se with m-sport adaptive on conti's is a lot worst.
both on 17" rims, my 06 vectra was much more refined! no kidding.

Originally Posted by bluemark81

I'm sorry, but I have such a hard time believing there is such a difference between people like you and others like myself. What the heck is going on with these cars?

I must be suffering from presbycusis.

The car has no wind noise, there is some road noise on some road surfaces but it is not excessive and I don't have to turn up the HK.

Maybe I am deaf or have a good 'un or both.

[Benjo6]

If wind noise is our biggest problem I'd say we're doing ok I'd still take a 335 over the others --- still faithful