06-11-2013, 12:16 PM | #23 | |
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What a silly analogy. So what you are saying is that the workers in the production facility have more fun building manual cars?
There are just as many "Nanny" controls in MT's as there are in AT's, in fact with the exception of the clutch and 2 less gears..........you get the point. Kevin Quote:
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06-11-2013, 12:19 PM | #24 | ||
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I declare because you do not understand the operational synergy between technology and hardware, you are not an enthusiast. |
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06-11-2013, 12:22 PM | #25 | |
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I don't know, Kevin. Maybe you and I just appreciate engineering more than others. That makes us engineering enthusiasts right...right? The new DSG transmissions are marvelous. On a side note: LOOK at what you've done JK479. |
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06-11-2013, 01:25 PM | #26 |
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None of the super cars of the world come in manual, they're all auto only (Veyron, GTR, Aventador, Most Ferraris, koenigsegg Agera, Pagani etc)
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06-11-2013, 01:35 PM | #27 |
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I ordered 2 in the last year....
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F30 Sapphire Black M-Sport 335i 6MT
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06-11-2013, 01:38 PM | #28 |
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Historically, 3 pedal manual version was faster but these days tables are turned in some cars (like the F30)
Biggest benefits for me of the new generation automatics are: - no loss in brake pedal pressure when downshifting under max effort braking (I would always lose a bit of pedal pressure on the brake when I rotated my foot over to blip the throttle) - for dual clutch gearboxes especially, ability to shift gears mid corner without fear of breaking traction or upsetting the car - ability to learn new route faster by letting the computer shift gears and focusing on the more important stuff like learning the markers Wish I was a pro squeezing out hundreds of a second from a purpose built machine but the reality is that I'm an average guy having fun in my daily driver so I'll happily take any tech that enables me to achieve more speed, including 8 speed sport auto and 7 speed DCT |
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06-11-2013, 01:54 PM | #29 | |
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Fact is, anyone can get into a two pedal car and drive it reasonably well, whether it be a GTR or a damn Veyron. A 3 pedal car takes skill and every one is a bit different. I drove my friends DeLorean in a parade Sunday, he said I was the only one he trusted to drive it. To hop in, drive off, no stalls, no grinding, know how to get in and out of reverse, then hop in a variety of other cars all in one day-it's special. Pressing in a clutch pedal, feeling the catch point, nailing a smooth shift-that is a defining experience that an auto cannot and will not duplicate.
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06-11-2013, 02:19 PM | #31 | |
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There is a lot more to driving than feeling the clutch point and making smooth shifts. getting the power down to the road is only halk the battle.
So I'll leave it at this: Do F1 cars have physical clutches? Quote:
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06-11-2013, 02:19 PM | #32 | |
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Guess it boils down to the defining experiences that the owner would like to have. Hurray for choice |
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06-11-2013, 02:28 PM | #33 | ||
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I never claimed about what is fastest, one would think an F1 car is designed and engineered around what is fastest capably possible. Fact is, I like that there are cars in my stable never offered in anything other than a manual, I enjoy articles where someone is car-jacked and it gets foiled when the robber learns the car is a stick and is unable to drive it. 2 pedal setups are only going to get better while the manual is likely not going to be improved over it's zenith from the past few decades. Does not mean I am going to enjoy it any less. Quote:
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06-11-2013, 02:33 PM | #34 |
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Nope, when you chop the roof and fenders off of your car, ditch the starter, add a roll cage and replace nearly all metal bits with carbon fiber, let's continue this fascinating comparison. Bonus points if you get your redline up to around 18k rpm and if the engine will stall under about 8k.
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06-11-2013, 02:45 PM | #35 | |
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What point are you trying to make, F1 cars rev higher so they need AT's.
Line up a stock MT Vs. AT and see which one wins, that is all! Car makers are investing $0.00 to develop Manual transmissions and frankly the technology has not changed very much over the last 10-15 years. Npot sure how I got drawn into this as I also like MT's just not in the face of this 8AT. Quote:
Last edited by KevRyd; 06-11-2013 at 02:52 PM.. |
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06-11-2013, 02:51 PM | #36 | |
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06-11-2013, 02:51 PM | #37 |
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Okay, how about a Viper vs 335i?
I know what you're getting at, but which is more fun, a Cayman with a manual or a GT-R? Just, good, honest fun. If magazine numbers are all you're after, than it's an easy choice, but if actual driving enjoyment is something you consider, it's a little trickier. If sponsors were buying my car for me and I could earn money by shaving hundredths of a second, I'd take a PDK/DSG, but if I were going to buy my own car, to enjoy, in daily driving and track conditions, it will have three pedals. Choice is a beautiful thing, and as BMW increasingly decides to take that choice away, I will look elsewhere. (Note that my wife doesn't give two cents about this discussion.) |
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06-11-2013, 02:54 PM | #38 |
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06-11-2013, 02:55 PM | #39 | |
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Buy a MT and enjoy it, I think even you will admit that as a DD in traffic MT can be a pain.
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06-11-2013, 02:55 PM | #40 |
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I think the F1 comparison was made based off of the assumption that BMW enthusiasts have speed and performance aligned with them. Again, you guys really need to clarify what makes an enthusiast a TRUE “enthusiast”. Speed? Auto. Performance? Auto. Molesting the car? Ermm..If you're into that, Manual. Less distraction? Auto. I can keep going.
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06-11-2013, 02:57 PM | #41 | |
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An automatic would have been easier, perhaps, but so would public transit. I like manuals, I don't really care if they're faster or slower. A number of cars are quicker than what I generally buy for similar money. |
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06-11-2013, 02:59 PM | #42 | |
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However, its baseless to call others "non- enthusiasts" (like others have said in the thread *cough* noro *cough*) just because their criteria are not aligned with a manual tranny __________________________________ |
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06-11-2013, 03:01 PM | #43 | |
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I don't go home each night and tell me wife she's stupid for buying an automatic. I get it. I don't mind driving her car. Much like a 3er, it works great with an automatic. |
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06-11-2013, 03:15 PM | #44 |
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