[richb811]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

Ok- you are comparing a hybrid to a turbo car.

GS350 F sport trounced 535i. Those are direct competitor.

The fact is F10 is softer, slower, and porkier to drive.

So how is this not a knock out???

I'm comparing what Lexus has chosen to market as their top tier premium Large sedan. What they put under the hood is their choice, but if they want to play in that market, then they've made their bed.

And yes, the Motor Trend comparison does show the F10 being edged out by the GS, but that is just one comparison. Neither Road & Track or Car & Driver have done their comparisons yet so I wouldn't call the subjective musings of one auto journalist a "Trouncing"

[mjmonjure]

Originally Posted by dboucher30

I like the look of the M4 concept. I don't know why some people look for reasons not to like it. Can't please everyone, that's fact!

I agree, the 4 series is very nice looking, I just wish they would leave the steering alone, no ASS, and just the normal driving experience, no eco pro or comfort modes

[KneeDragr]

I read a first drive of the new IS350 F-Sport and it wasnt very flattering. Sounds like its strait line performance will be similar to a 328i but cost and fuel economy similar to a 335i. They were not really impressed with the handling either. They thought the grill looked stupid also, but the interior was praised.

[badassfajita]

I got to see the new IS at the auto show in Houston this past weekend and....I think it looks a bit crazy! Crazy good that is. They definitely took a chance with the design and it may not have the "classic" appeal that the e46 had (which the e90 lost IMO), but it looked good to my eyes. The car was on a revolving platform, so I couldn't sit inside it and comment on the interior. But the exterior is so bold that it most are going to love it or hate it, nothing in between. I believe the former, especially if it drives well.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by KneeDragr

I read a first drive of the new IS350 F-Sport and it wasnt very flattering. Sounds like its strait line performance will be similar to a 328i but cost and fuel economy similar to a 335i. They were not really impressed with the handling either. They thought the grill looked stupid also, but the interior was praised.

You wouldn't have a link to that first drive story would you?

I agree with you that this Lexus isn't going to be pushing the 335 off the cliff anytime soon. I think the Infiniti Q50 is a better styling job than the Lexus but it probably won't drive any better than the outgoing G37.

[KneeDragr]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

You wouldn't have a link to that first drive story would you?

Sorry, it was on FlipBoard.

[zanye08]

Originally Posted by bronco

BMW is looking more and more like Lexus, Lexus is trying to look like BMW....go figure....
Anyways, this new Lexus design is not for me. I was hoping that they would bring back some of the original IS 300 style with modern and more aggressive lines.
Oh....and no manual transmission???

+1

I think everyone has been waiting since 2006 for the evolution of the original IS 300 design. Was the best design they had and the closest they have ever come to BMW driving dynamics..They jumped the shark in 2006 and never looked back...

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by zanye08

+1

I think everyone has been waiting since 2006 for the evolution of the original IS 300 design. Was the best design they had and the closest they have ever come to BMW driving dynamics..They jumped the shark in 2006 and never looked back...

I don't know the driving dynamics of the 1st gen IS300 but the ricer tail lights killed it for me.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by alex2364

I don't know the driving dynamics of the 1st gen IS300 but the ricer tail lights killed it for me.

Those were not ricer, its all the knock off of those taillights that made for ricers.

The IS was called the Altezza in Japan, so all those lights were called Altezzas, the ones you find on Civics.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Those were not ricer, its all the knock off of those taillights that made for ricers.

The IS was called the Altezza in Japan, so all those lights were called Altezzas, the ones you find on Civics.

And the difference is...?? Those tail lights became popular way before the IS300 had them.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by alex2364

And the difference is...?? Those tail lights became popular way before the IS300 had them.

That's just it. It was the IS/Altezza that made them popular, not the other way around.

[zanye08]

Originally Posted by alex2364

I don't know the driving dynamics of the 1st gen IS300 but the ricer tail lights killed it for me.

The driving dynamics were way better than all the other models that followed, it was a small, rwd sedan with handling and steering feel similar to BMW's before BMW started messing with it. The car did not sell well because it was "un-lexus like"..that pretty much says it all..lol

I did not mind the lights on the IS300, but on mustangs/accords/bmw's etc just looked

Kinda like seeing angel eyes on non bmw's

[zanye08]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

That's just it. It was the IS/Altezza that made them popular, not the other way around.

Very few people know that..The Altezza came out in 1998..That same year it was car of the year in Japan. After the exposure, the lights were copied for the JDM market Hondas which were present in the US (accord/civic/preludes) etc So the we had 3 years of that trend here with no IS 300 until late 2000/early 2001. By then it was a plague of ricers of all kind. Even ricer's had no clue why they were called "Altezza's"...lol

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by zanye08

Very few people know that..The Altezza came out in 1998..That same year it was car of the year in Japan. After the exposure, the lights were copied for the JDM market Hondas which were present in the US (accord/civic/preludes) etc So the we had 3 years of that trend here with no IS 300 until late 2000/early 2001. By then it was a plague of ricers of all kind. Even ricer's had no clue why they were called "Altezza's"...lol

Exactly.

But it's not the blame for the IS lol.

[TT6mT]

Fun to drive would mean it needs turbo and 6mt. At least a real manual transmission. I was interested in the ISF when it first came out, but was bummed it didnt come in manual.

[mjmonjure]

Fun to Drive... umm.. seems the left hand of Toyota (Lexus) doesn't know what the right hand (Scion FR-S/Suburu BRZ) is doing..

[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by BMWFB02

+1

Also, a BMW is a BMW but Audi is a Volkswagen.

Nice that the VW R8 can go faster around a track than any BMW and VW's RS5 can go around the track faster than your BMW.
Also nice that Lexus also makes a faster car than any BMW in the LFA. Until BMW makes a production car faster than Audi/VW and Toyota/Lexus than maybe some of you should just think before you spout out crap.

[RoundelM3]

I think Willie from the "Swamp People" show on History Channel said it best (regarding alligator hunting):

"If you think you can come in here and do this yourself...well, good luck to ya!"

The same applies to building the "ultimate driving machine"...

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW

Nice that the VW R8 can go faster around a track than any BMW and VW's RS5 can go around the track faster than your BMW.
Also nice that Lexus also makes a faster car than any BMW in the LFA. Until BMW makes a production car faster than Audi/VW and Toyota/Lexus than maybe some of you should just think before you spout out crap.

The LFA is a $400k car that is not very competitive with other Hyper Cars with a clunky out of date transmission and without the pedigree of racing like a Ferrari. It's a halo car that Lexus makes no money or almost no money on.

It's a pretty weak argument for this thread.

[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

The LFA is a $400k car that is not very competitive with other Hyper Cars with a clunky out of date transmission and without the pedigree of racing like a Ferrari. It's a halo car that Lexus makes no money or almost no money on.

It's a pretty weak argument for this thread.

What is weak about the argument? You had some fanboys here saying that Lexus is just a Toyota and Audi just a VW. All I said was that both these manufacturers build faster cars than BMW in a straight line and around a track.
Tell me which part of this is not true?
It doesn't matter that it is $400k, and it doesn't have the pedigree of Ferrari, or that they lose money on the car, the point was to point out to some fanboys that Lexus makes a faster car than BMW that is in production. So before some of these guys say BMW is a BMW and a Lexus is a Toyota they shouldn't overlook this FACT. Don't say that BMW can make a faster car than the LFA or R8 because the fact is they haven't made one that is a production car.

Also BMW has chosen Toyota to make a sport car with them for a reason.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW

What is weak about the argument? You had some fanboys here saying that Lexus is just a Toyota and Audi just a VW. All I said was that both these manufacturers build faster cars than BMW in a straight line and around a track.
Tell me which part of this is not true?
It doesn't matter that it is $400k, and it doesn't have the pedigree of Ferrari, or that they lose money on the car, the point was to point out to some fanboys that Lexus makes a faster car than BMW that is in production. So before some of these guys say BMW is a BMW and a Lexus is a Toyota they shouldn't overlook this FACT.

Also BMW has chosen Toyota to make a sport car with them for a reason.

I don't agree with them, but I also find it far removed with the validity of your point as well.

I am sorry, but the LFA does little for Lexus. The IS-F is a better story as it gave 85-90% percent of the E90 M3 experience. That to me is more compelling and relevant. Lexus' attempt at a hyper car is a flawed one and outclassed by it's competition. BMW does not have a hyper car offering, that does not mean it fails in anyway just because Lexus does.

Some of Lexus products really are Toyotas, that's not an opinion. The Es350 is now largely an Avalon, the CT is a fair bit based on Prius bones, the LX SUV is a re-grilled Landcruiser. Now saying ALL Lexus' are Toyotas, that is simply an incorrect statement.

[Frank_NJ]

Simply said BMW is a BMW where a Lexus is a fancy Toyota. They can try but never will come close to the bench mark of the 3 series.