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      09-06-2017, 03:33 AM   #89
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Did they just reduce the cpo warranty to under VW levels?
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      09-06-2017, 03:45 AM   #90
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Cheap trick. They took the spare tire away and now this? Pretty soon they get rid of maintenance all together.
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      09-06-2017, 06:54 AM   #91
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Cheap trick. They took the spare tire away and now this? Pretty soon they get rid of maintenance all together.
Long live the dipstick.
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      09-06-2017, 07:01 AM   #92
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Cheap trick. They took the spare tire away and now this? Pretty soon they get rid of maintenance all together.
I'd give up free maintenance for a 10yr/120k mile powertrain warranty.

Maintenance is nothing on these cars
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      09-06-2017, 08:20 AM   #93
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When this thread started, I knew there would be those that would put a positive spin on BMW's reduction of the included CPO warranty. Stating things like, and I'm paraphrasing, "The dealer has to pay for those CPO warranties anyway, so this will lower prices of CPO vehicles" and " this just provides more options, you can always bargain for extended warranties" You are entitled to your opinions however, I would just say to counter that line of thought, make no mistake about it value has been removed from the buyer side of the equation at the start of the negotiation process. There is no guarantee that CPO prices will be reduced, in fact I think dealers will see this as an opportunity to increase their profit margin and not lower CPO vehicle prices at all. Anyone in sales or part of any price based negotiation knows that as the seller you want to start with the highest price possible. As a buyer, the converse is true, you want to start with the lowest selling price possible. By reducing the term of the CPO warranty, BMW has decreased the value of what it's selling putting the buyer in a weaker position at the beginning of the negotiation. In my opinion, there is no way to see this as a net positive. Also, arguing that other brands are not as good as BMWs so, why would you jump ship, is not really the issue. It's about the loss of value in purchasing a BMW. BMW corporate has made a business decision to remove value from the buyer side of the sales equation. They did this to increase the profit they make on their cars. If this strategy is successful, the buyer will ultimately pay more for their cars or have less warranty coverage.
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      09-06-2017, 09:06 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by mtrack View Post
When this thread started, I knew there would be those that would put a positive spin on BMW's reduction of the included CPO warranty. Stating things like, and I'm paraphrasing, "The dealer has to pay for those CPO warranties anyway, so this will lower prices of CPO vehicles" and " this just provides more options, you can always bargain for extended warranties" You are entitled to your opinions however, I would just say to counter that line of thought, make no mistake about it value has been removed from the buyer side of the equation at the start of the negotiation process. There is no guarantee that CPO prices will be reduced, in fact I think dealers will see this as an opportunity to increase their profit margin and not lower CPO vehicle prices at all. Anyone in sales or part of any price based negotiation knows that as the seller you want to start with the highest price possible. As a buyer, the converse is true, you want to start with the lowest selling price possible. By reducing the term of the CPO warranty, BMW has decreased the value of what it's selling putting the buyer in a weaker position at the beginning of the negotiation. In my opinion, there is no way to see this as a net positive. Also, arguing that other brands are not as good as BMWs so, why would you jump ship, is not really the issue. It's about the loss of value in purchasing a BMW. BMW corporate has made a business decision to remove value from the buyer side of the sales equation. They did this to increase the profit they make on their cars. If this strategy is successful, the buyer will ultimately pay more for their cars or have less warranty coverage.
Well, following your line of thinking, ultimately if the strategy you outlined is effective and the buyers pay more, then it was worth more to the buyers.

I never understand why people think car companies (particularly premium luxury brands) are in business to maximize value or provide great deals to customers. If they have a great product at a price people find acceptable, it works. If they don't then it fails. Simple. I think most of the overreactions in this thread are comical.
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      09-06-2017, 09:06 AM   #95
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Given that you can typically lease BMWs at a lower overall cost than say an Audi or Merc, I am not sure that I would ever consider a CPO Bimmer. Porsche, for sure - so you can avoid the initial deprecation hit. Not sure I am too bothered by this one way or another.
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      09-06-2017, 10:07 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by aaddam2 View Post
Just gotta buy all of your BMW's from Carmax and get MaxCare.


"What MaxCare covers:

MaxCare provides comprehensive mechanical protection. A category list of parts and systems covered in the comprehensive MaxCare plan is included below. Except for the named exclusions, you can rest assured your car is covered.

Engine
Transmission
Drivetrain

Electronics
Electrical Systems
Steering

Suspension
Cooling System
Climate Control"

"How much are carmax warranties?
Phil also told me the warranty costs range from $2,299 for 6 years/75,000 miles to $3,799 for 6 years/125,000 miles, all with a $100 deductible. "
Aren't the maxcare warranties additive? They offer warranties on top of any existing manufacturers warranty.

Were you adding them together when you mentioned the pricing on 6yr 75k/125k?

Please clarify
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      09-06-2017, 10:21 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Given that you can typically lease BMWs at a lower overall cost than say an Audi or Merc, I am not sure that I would ever consider a CPO Bimmer. Porsche, for sure - so you can avoid the initial deprecation hit. Not sure I am too bothered by this one way or another.
Leases on BMW a great because the CPO program keeps resale after 3yr high, so your residual on your lease is good. Now if the value proposition for the 3yr used car is not as good, lease residuals will decrease, and that's bad news for lease cost. That's also bad news for buyers that typically get the CPO end-of-lease cars since they will now have to pony up themselves for the very common water pump and leaks that pretty much always develop around Y6 mark.
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      09-06-2017, 11:16 AM   #98
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This is the last thing BMWs need. More gadgetized, complex and unreliable. They keep dropping the warranties and service.

I don't know for sure. I had give up on BMWs, then they made the 1M and I went back, but as it looks this my last new-ish BMW. I might own something from previous generations but warranty is such a big factor when you consider a new or used BMW.
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      09-06-2017, 11:27 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
Well, following your line of thinking, ultimately if the strategy you outlined is effective and the buyers pay more, then it was worth more to the buyers.

I never understand why people think car companies (particularly premium luxury brands) are in business to maximize value or provide great deals to customers. If they have a great product at a price people find acceptable, it works. If they don't then it fails. Simple. I think most of the overreactions in this thread are comical.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Regarding maintenance and warranty. I've had over 100 BMWs mostly M cars, and not one has been a CPO, never found it appealing to continue to take your car to the dealership for maintenance and repairs even if some of them are covered. BMW OEM parts are far from special, most of them are reboxed into BMW boxes but are the same exact parts we can buy directly from the manufacturers (i.e. Bosch for electronic sensors, Brembo for blanks, Mahle for filters). Most high quality trained BMW techs leave the dealerships before they are top teir level because BMW pays them sh*t. If the parts are the same and the techs are the same what is all the hoopla about going to the dealership for "warrantied work". The price difference between a CPO'd car and a good deal will make up the difference of paying your way when your car breaks.

I got stuck going to a dealership for tires on my most recent F82 M4 since Mich tires were scarce, I paid $40 dollars each for mount and balance plus $60 dollars over my wholesale number at tire rack. My local BMW independent charges $80 to mount and balance 4. You might get a free water pump or a cam sensor, but in all reality they KILL you on wear n tear items, and lets not forget the CPO costs you money.

Its like Vegas, those casinos weren't built on hopes and dreams or giving you a chance to win a GOOD bet, the house always wins! In this respect BMW isn't losing money or giving you a good deal when they charge you the $3k dollars for a CPO warranty. They know better. Lastly BMW is a corporation that gives their dealers the chance to sell their product. A BMW dealerships biggest competitor is another BMW dealership. I have wholesale accounts setup at numerous Bmw dealerships for parts, sometimes one is cheaper than the other, and I am not a shop. I have $150 dollar LLC setup that I use to make wholesale accounts to get discounts.

Sorry to see some of you go and never own a BMW again. We'll be here chugging away after you despise your rebadged Toyota or Nissan. (those of you who go to Porsche you won't come back lol)

Ok rant over. Carry on.
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      09-06-2017, 11:38 AM   #100
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Not surprising. This is a way to cut down on legacy costs. The costs you committed to ages ago and you are getting nothing for now.
Also, bmws are notorious for design flaws that don't show up until 50,000 miles or so like VANOS, bearings, oil pumps etc. This will help them avoid paying for those issues and also take pressure off their engineers and designers. It will make it desirable to buy cars at the end of their life cycle so most of those problems are apparent or fixed. I got a car with the N55 engine right before the switch to the B58. The B58 may be better with its closed deck design and integrated manifold and turbo, but I'm hopping the N55 had all its kinks straightened out.
This also makes leasing more and more attractive. Hopefully Georgia will start allowing normal leases where you pay tax on the amount of car you lease rather than the 7.5% tax on the whole value of the car which you currently have to pay. It's hard enough to buy a $50,000-$80,000 car without coming up with another $3,750-$6,000 in tax. I also hope BMW lease residuals start reflecting reality or I may be back to buying used VW or Toyotas!
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      09-06-2017, 11:48 AM   #101
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FWD-based X1, reduced free maintenance plan, switch to steel driveshaft on M3/M4, now reduced CPO warranty. BMW is doing their best to alienate current and future brand buyers.
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      09-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #102
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It seems like many automobile "luxury brands" are trying to beat each other in the race to the bottom. And BMW doesn't want to be left behind. When I got my first BMW it seemed like a luxury experience and I felt well treated and confident in my purchase. The sales people are like most sales people and thus somewhat untrustworthy. But it was great to have transferable 4/50,000 free maintenance on everything but the tires, 4/50,000 bumper to bumper warranty, and you could get a cpo with a total of 6/100,000 bumper to bumper warranty. Now, you pay for everything except oil and filter, and if your cpo blows up at five years, tough. Also, the dealers now nickel and dime everything. And things that should be standard are optional. A $40,000 car can collect $15,000 worth of options and is stripped without at least getting $6,000 to 8,000 worth of options for things like backup cameras, blue tooth, garage door opener, auto dimming mirrors, etc. even if you skip the leather and the nav system, you're going to pay. Soon BMW will catch up wit Porsche. :-) I helped a friend buy a Toyota last weekend, and I was treated better, and he got a great warranty. Of course MB and Audi are even worse, but BMW will catch them. But I do love driving an M car. Maybe Porsche next time.
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      09-06-2017, 12:57 PM   #103
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gosh darn it and dag nabbit, millennials are ruining cpo.

How had this root cause not been already clearly identified?!

LOL ?
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      09-06-2017, 01:02 PM   #104
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How much does it cost to upgrade to 2 years unlimited miles?
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      09-06-2017, 01:23 PM   #105
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How much does it cost to upgrade to 2 years unlimited miles?

$1200....

How much was CPO before? About $2k wholesale.
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      09-06-2017, 01:28 PM   #106
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You mean Hyundai. Best warranty in the business.
Mitsubishi https://www.mitsubishicars.com/owners/service/warranty
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      09-06-2017, 06:00 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
This also makes leasing more and more attractive. Hopefully Georgia will start allowing normal leases where you pay tax on the amount of car you lease rather than the 7.5% tax on the whole value of the car which you currently have to pay. It's hard enough to buy a $50,000-$80,000 car without coming up with another $3,750-$6,000 in tax. I also hope BMW lease residuals start reflecting reality or I may be back to buying used VW or Toyotas!
My understanding is this law did change and will go into effect Jan 2018.

http://www.cnhi.com/featured_stories...0f9cadd1b.html
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/...0172018/HB/340


However, I am bit confused because I would have expected massive celebrations in the streets (and by car dealers).
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      09-06-2017, 06:07 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStanman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
This also makes leasing more and more attractive. Hopefully Georgia will start allowing normal leases where you pay tax on the amount of car you lease rather than the 7.5% tax on the whole value of the car which you currently have to pay. It's hard enough to buy a $50,000-$80,000 car without coming up with another $3,750-$6,000 in tax. I also hope BMW lease residuals start reflecting reality or I may be back to buying used VW or Toyotas!
My understanding is this law did change and will go into effect Jan 2018.

http://www.cnhi.com/featured_stories...0f9cadd1b.html
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/...0172018/HB/340


However, I am bit confused because I would have expected massive celebrations in the streets (and by car dealers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStanman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
This also makes leasing more and more attractive. Hopefully Georgia will start allowing normal leases where you pay tax on the amount of car you lease rather than the 7.5% tax on the whole value of the car which you currently have to pay. It's hard enough to buy a $50,000-$80,000 car without coming up with another $3,750-$6,000 in tax. I also hope BMW lease residuals start reflecting reality or I may be back to buying used VW or Toyotas!
My understanding is this law did change and will go into effect Jan 2018.

http://www.cnhi.com/featured_stories...0f9cadd1b.html
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/...0172018/HB/340


However, I am bit confused because I would have expected massive celebrations in the streets (and by car dealers).
I also heard that it changes the first of 2018. Dealers had special programs to get around the law. One was rather than a lease it was more like you bought the car, but financed it to pay for only the time you were going to keep it, with a huge ballon payment at the end. That way you're financing the tax rather than paying it at once. If you get out of the lease, your selling the car back to the dealer, if you buy, then you refinance the ballon payment and don't have to pay the tax again. It's a bad deal for the dealer and a worse deal for the lease holder. A real lease will be welcomed by all.
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      09-06-2017, 06:31 PM   #109
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We are the consumers, it's our money and we can pick any car we'd like. BMW is making decisions that work best for the company and that's what a business should do if they want to be successful. As for me the consumer, the lower residuals, reduced maintenance plans, and now CPO decisions will most likely push me to another vehicle as those were some of the key drivers for me to purchase my 2009 CPO 335 and lease my 2016 M3. Consumers will continue to buy BMW until what they value is reduced. I don't have animosity towards BMW, I really enjoy my M3 and before all these reductions I would probably gotten another one with out looking at other brands as BMW makes a great vehicle. But, from a financial and value perspective I will be looking at other brands.
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      09-06-2017, 06:38 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMV///M3 View Post
We are the consumers, it's our money and we can pick any car we'd like. BMW is making decisions that work best for the company and that's what a business should do if they want to be successful. As for me the consumer, the lower residuals, reduced maintenance plans, and now CPO decisions will most likely push me to another vehicle as those were some of the key drivers for me to purchase my 2009 CPO 335 and lease my 2016 M3. Consumers will continue to buy BMW until what they value is reduced. I don't have animosity towards BMW, I really enjoy my M3 and before all these reductions I would probably gotten another one with out looking at other brands as BMW makes a great vehicle. But, from a financial and value perspective I will be looking at other brands.
Same here.
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