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      02-08-2018, 03:23 PM   #67
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Nah there's definitely a difference between the ATS and the best sellers of the segment. The ATS isn't as good an all-rounder as the 3er and not even close to the A4 or C-class.

There's a reason why the ATS is one of the worst selling vehicles in America. Dealers can't move them to save their lives. For your purposes it's fine (just as my Lexus IS is fine for my purposes) but that's clearly not the case for most consumers.
I think it has a lot to do with brand/parent company perception and magazine reviews. The ATS wins pretty much every review regarding driving Dynamics, which was Cadillac's main objective. But the mags then comment on stupid stuff like the windows are too small (never a complaint when the ATS first arrived 5 years ago. The back seat is small, yet magazines and sport sedan consumers complain the Audi, BMW, and Benz have grown too big and heavy, while the Alpha platform is hundreds of pounds lighter.

I think had Cadillac not offered the chassis with the 2.5L engine but instead offered it with a V6 / manual transmission option, the conversion rate of real BMW owners over to Cadillac would have been far better.

Is the reliability any worse than the Germans? I'd bet not. Being the parent is GM, there is a perception, which affects the buying decision, but in reality, owners of German cars and BMW especially, put up with a lot of design and build quality issues.

Seems the Audi A4 is the sales loser of the bunch:
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 02-08-2018 at 10:40 PM. Reason: data
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      02-08-2018, 04:53 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Nah there's definitely a difference between the ATS and the best sellers of the segment. The ATS isn't as good an all-rounder as the 3er and not even close to the A4 or C-class.

There's a reason why the ATS is one of the worst selling vehicles in America. Dealers can't move them to save their lives. For your purposes it's fine (just as my Lexus IS is fine for my purposes) but that's clearly not the case for most consumers.
I think it has a lot to do with brand/parent company perception and magazine reviews. The ATS wins pretty much every review regarding driving Dynamics, which was Cadillac's main objective. But the mags then comment on stupid stuff like the windows are too small (never a complaint when the ATS first arrived 5 years ago. The back seat is small, yet magazines and sport sedan consumers complain the Audi, BMW, and Benz have grown too big and heavy, while the Alpha platform is hundreds of pounds lighter.

I think had Cadillac not offered the chassis with the 2.5L engine but instead offered it with a V6 / manual transmission option, the conversion rate of real BMW owners over to Cadillac would have been far better.

Is the reliability any worse than the Germans? I'd bet not. Being the parent is GM, there is a perception, which affects the buying decision, but in reality, owners of German cars and BMW especially, put up with a lot of design and build quality issues.
I haven't had any breakdowns. My colleague's Prius is in the shop being fixed under warranty. So much for Japanese reliability.
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      02-08-2018, 07:00 PM   #69
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holy shit seriously? damn ....

Yeah bought 2 cars... A new x5 and ordered M2... but the x5 had condensation in the light the first night, so I gave them the car said I want a new headlight. So they gave us that car... it was ok.
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      02-08-2018, 07:15 PM   #70
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Ive gotten a 750i, 430i, X5 and X3 as loaners.
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      02-08-2018, 11:02 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I think it has a lot to do with brand/parent company perception and magazine reviews. The ATS wins pretty much every review regarding driving Dynamics, which was Cadillac's main objective. But the mags then comment on stupid stuff like the windows are too small (never a complaint when the ATS first arrived 5 years ago. The back seat is small, yet magazines and sport sedan consumers complain the Audi, BMW, and Benz have grown too big and heavy, while the Alpha platform is hundreds of pounds lighter.

I think had Cadillac not offered the chassis with the 2.5L engine but instead offered it with a V6 / manual transmission option, the conversion rate of real BMW owners over to Cadillac would have been far better.

Is the reliability any worse than the Germans? I'd bet not. Being the parent is GM, there is a perception, which affects the buying decision, but in reality, owners of German cars and BMW especially, put up with a lot of design and build quality issues.

Seems the Audi A4 is the sales loser of the bunch:
Those statistics are misleading. ATS (a) being a GM product does heavy fleet sales and (b) is one of the slowest selling vehicles in the country, in terms of total number of days it sits on dealer lots. GM has idled its Lansing plant numerous times due to lack of demand/excess inventory, and the future of the ATS is very much in doubt. Just a month ago reports came out that the ATS sedan could be dropped for this next model year.

Aside from driving dynamics it doesn't offer any advantages over the competition. It's not that it's a "bad" car that's a hunk of trash like previous Cadillacs. It can hold its own despite having some flaws, but that's just not enough given how good the other choices are.
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      02-08-2018, 11:05 PM   #72
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Those statistics are misleading. ATS (a) being a GM product does heavy fleet sales and (b) is one of the slowest selling vehicles in the country, in terms of total number of days it sits on dealer lots. GM has idled its Lansing plant numerous times due to lack of demand/excess inventory, and the future of the ATS is very much in doubt. Just a month ago reports came out that the ATS sedan could be dropped for this next model year.
Numbers are numbers. CT5 is the next ATS update.
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      02-08-2018, 11:08 PM   #73
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Numbers are numbers. CT5 is the next ATS update.
I disagree. I grew up with my parents working for GM and their "numbers is numbers" mentality is what led to them going belly up and getting bailed out. When you have to idle your plant and throw loads of cash on the hoods of your product to move units there's no denying that there are underlying problems. I don't even know how this topic is up for debate, every analysis on the market has deemed the ATS to be a flop.

CT5 is not an ATS replacement, it is a replacement for multiple Cadillac sedans (ATS, CTS, XTS).
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      02-09-2018, 07:12 AM   #74
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I disagree. I grew up with my parents working for GM and their "numbers is numbers" mentality is what led to them going belly up and getting bailed out. When you have to idle your plant and throw loads of cash on the hoods of your product to move units there's no denying that there are underlying problems. I don't even know how this topic is up for debate, every analysis on the market has deemed the ATS to be a flop.

CT5 is not an ATS replacement, it is a replacement for multiple Cadillac sedans (ATS, CTS, XTS).
Dude, in another thread you stated that "you hate all things GM", so I'm not going to further argue with a mental disorder.

The ATS is a great driving car and better than the current crop of 3-series BMW offers. If one buys the Ultimate Driving Machine to actually drive the fucking car vs. have a fancy imaginary blue-and-white propeller badge, then the ATS fills the bill far better than the current BMW 3-series. Of the several different F3X's I've driven since 2012, all of them have sucked and none are worthy of a Roundel on the hood. What really is the case, is the small entry-level sport sedan market, which the 3-series has previously defined and dominated since the 1970's, has moved the bar to a location where when compared to itself, the 3-series would lose to its forebears. The ATS was targeted to that person seeking an ultimate driving machine, but that person seeking the BMW Ultimate Driving Machine is now more concerned with MMI of iDrive units rather than steering feel, brake feel and cornering acumen the 3-series used to offer.

I've put well over 1,500 miles behind the wheel of two ATS service loaners and driven them over my regular commute, and have done the same with an F30 335i. The ATS drives like a BMW, the F30 doesn't.

While I've been a Bimmerhead since the late 1970's and been around the 3 series since the E21 (I still remember to this day the beautiful steering feel of the 1978 320i I drove up our gravel driveway in 1978) and currently have three (3) 3-series* BMWs in the fleet, I'm of open automotive mind enough to recognize a great driving car when I drive one, regardless of the manufacturer who builds it.

You appear to be a zealot.

Peace out.

*one is actually an E86 Z4 Coupe, which is basically a short wheelbase E46.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 02-09-2018 at 07:17 AM.
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      02-09-2018, 06:58 PM   #75
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      02-20-2018, 09:17 AM   #76
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      02-20-2018, 12:21 PM   #77
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