[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by RJH

Since the 54/54 have been out for a while, I'm more confident with that tune. But we're talking about the much newer N20 here and in my opinion, the jury is still out.
The results from our Russian friend show 283 with downpipe, catback and intercooler...so I'm still no closer to gauging what the "chipping" delivers. I've seen stock whp in 238 range - therefore it looks like total gains are in the neighbourhood of 45ish hp. Not really impressive for the total investment and still no confirmation on what part BMS plays. (10-15 hp as stand alone??? - just don't know)

All dynos read differently and car/conditions play a large role. So you can't do "dyno math" with different cars and dynos and expect that to work out.

Each PSI of boost increase on the N20 is worth around 8-10whp. So plan accordingly. That means S1 at default 3psi gives 24-30whp, 4psi 32-40whp. Their S2 tune runs as much as 10psi over stock in parts of the power band.

Mike

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

All dynos read differently and car/conditions play a large role. So you can't do "dyno math" with different cars and dynos and expect that to work out.

Each PSI of boost increase on the N20 is worth around 8-10whp. So plan accordingly. That means S1 at default 3psi gives 24-30whp, 4psi 32-40whp. Their S2 tune runs as much as 10psi over stock in parts of the power band.

Mike

For me it's simple and it should be the same for others on the fence. I'll order the Stage 2. Install. Drive a few days. If I'm satisfied, I'll keep it. If not, send it back. What's the big fuss?
It's not about numbers, graphs and dynos. It's what my butt says. I'm not paying for an Excel sheet full of numbers, I'm paying for the extra rush. If I'll get it - hurrraaaay! If not, no biggie.

[Jamesons Viggen]

My thinking is stage 1 was a gateway drug. Stage 2 is where things will get interesting.

Stage 1 was not as exciting for me as my APR tune on my last VAG product, but the APR tune was more $$$ and had a lot of neat options. Stage 2 is much more in line with the features and gains that came with my APR tune.

By the time stage 2 is out I plan on having my production catback on and hoping to crack 280-285whp on 93 octane. From there, I hope to find a reasonable downpipe solution that includes a race-cat. My goal from day one was 300whp on pump gas.

[1GrayBulldog]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

My thinking is stage 1 was a gateway drug. Stage 2 is where things will get interesting.

Stage 1 was not as exciting for me as my APR tune on my last VAG product, but the APR tune was more $$$ and had a lot of neat options. Stage 2 is much more in line with the features and gains that came with my APR tune.

By the time stage 2 is out I plan on having my production catback on and hoping to crack 280-285whp on 93 octane. From there, I hope to find a reasonable downpipe solution that includes a race-cat. My goal from day one was 300whp on pump gas.

Good way to put it as I see it the same way... Things I'm excited about for the full JB4 release? Built-in DP-fix so I can go FBO at the same time my N20 unlocks E85 potential. The E50 stock dyno from BMS makes me excited for where I'll be at with FBO!

[Casualvic]

Originally Posted by RJH

Results from this tune, at this point, appear too inconsistent and subjective for my tastes - and at 18ish hp probably too small to notice - even to a well trained butt. Moreover, even the changes "under the line" don't point to more real world / usable performance. Also don't get this learning period thing - sounds like urban legend!
FYI: Some years ago I enjoyed good and bad experience chipping my Audi A4 w/2.0T. First chip promised big numbers and for the first few weeks I thought I felt something. But when others reported their disappointments, it confirmed I was fooling myself. I later replaced the chip with one from GIAC - which had years of well documented (though more modest) gains and had been fully sorted out. With this tune, the difference was very obvious and real; especially in day to day driving.

I appreciate the early adopters, and the minute I'm convinced that this or that other piggy-back with the blue light actually delivers 30+ whp and 50+ torque, and in the meat of the power range...and without surprises...my check is in the mail. Until then I gotta sit on the fence, with crossed fingers.
[u2b], [/u2b]

get you an AFE scorcher, you will feel a difference in all modes

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Casualvic

get you an AFE scorcher, you will feel a difference in all modes

You will feel a difference when a BMS stage 2 car leaves that Mickey Mouse tune for dead.

[topcat87]

the afe scorcher is not a stage 2 tune. apples to oranges.

[David328M-Sport]

Originally Posted by Casualvic

get you an AFE scorcher, you will feel a difference in all modes

Thing is, I do already with BMS Stage 1. Quite a substantial difference - improvement.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by topcat87

the afe scorcher is not a stage 2 tune. apples to oranges.

I don't see the difference?

Some stage 2 tunes require hardware such as downpipes and so that would not be a fair comparison. This one does not.

So you have the BMS stage 1 for $389 that had basic function and the AFE for about $500, also basic.

BMS stage 2 requires no additional hardware and can be run on a variety of fuels including 91 and will cost $500-600.

So I think it's pretty apples to apples, even more so than BMS stage 1 vs AFE.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by David328M-Sport

Thing is, I do already with BMS Stage 1. Quite a substantial difference - improvement.

x2.

Comfort feels much closer to the car did in Sport and Sport now feels like an N55.

[topcat87]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I don't see the difference?

Some stage 2 tunes require hardware such as downpipes and so that would not be a fair comparison. This one does not.

So you have the BMS stage 1 for $389 that had basic function and the AFE for about $500, also basic.

BMS stage 2 requires no additional hardware and can be run on a variety of fuels including 91 and will cost $500-600.

So I think it's pretty apples to apples, even more so than BMS stage 1 vs AFE.

the difference is very simple. stage ONE and stage TWO. see the difference?
One is basic and two is more aggressive. Obviously the aggressive tune will put down more power.

if you want to compare tunes you should compare the same stages. like cobb stage 1 vs jb3. If its cobb stage 1 vs jb4 obviously the jb4 would win.
apples vs oranges.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by topcat87

the difference is very simple. stage ONE and stage TWO. see the difference?
One is basic and two is more aggressive. Obviously the aggressive tune will put down more power.

if you want to compare tunes you should compare the same stages. like cobb stage 1 vs jb3. If its cobb stage 1 vs jb4 obviously the jb4 would win.
apples vs oranges.

The number from tuner to tuner is meaningless.

Coming from tunings 300ZX's, Supras, Saabs etc. One tuners stage 1, stage 2, 4 can be completely different. Some had different mashups of hardware, some were more timid than others.

Stage 2 BMS is being tested on 91, as that is the readily available fuel to the tuner in Cali. It requires no hardware. Its closer in price to the AFE. I don't know how you can qualify the stage 2 as aggressive as we don't know the details of the 3 iterations(stage 1-2 BMS and AFE).

So I see nothing wrong by comparing tune to tune if hardware is the same, fuel is the same, and price is that close. Pretty damn apples to apples. I don't see a point in getting hung up in what one calls a stage 1 vs the others 2.

AFE, for all we know, wanted to get in and out with one tune that makes a lot of people happy with no interest in further developing other stages. So it might be more aggressive than BMS stage 1 who had planned other stages all along. Does that mean AFE is really a stage 1.5? Just kidding.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

x2.

Comfort feels much closer to the car did in Sport and Sport now feels like an N55.

Thing is, you are by far the most enthusiastic flag carrier for BMS, and that's completely fine and I'm glad you're so happy with the product - but it's a red flag to neutrality and it takes away credibility.

Reading all the BMS posts I could find, you are also the only one that reports the huge increases in power, like the statement above. Other reviewers here have said repeatedly that the tune is mild, is not a 4.9s tune in any case, and our lil' 2.0l doesn't transform overnight into a 3.0l. Even our Russian friend couldn't go lower than 5.3s with a ton of other mods.

That being said, I'm taking all the advertising with a huge grain of salt (around 4 pounds) and I can't wait for Stage 2

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Thing is, you are by far the most enthusiastic flag carrier for BMS, and that's completely fine and I'm glad you're so happy with the product - but it's a red flag to neutrality and it takes away credibility.

Reading all the BMS posts I could find, you are also the only one that reports the huge increases in power, like the statement above. Other reviewers here have said repeatedly that the tune is mild, is not a 4.9s tune in any case, and our lil' 2.0l doesn't transform overnight into a 3.0l. Even our Russian friend couldn't go lower than 5.3s with a ton of other mods.

That being said, I'm taking all the advertising with a huge grain of salt (around 4 pounds) and I can't wait for Stage 2

You might be confusing me with someone else.

"Reading all the BMS posts I could find, you are also the only one that reports the huge increases in power, like the statement above."

Please show me where I state the gains are huge.

I state clearly that coming from my APR tune on my most recent car, the gain is not as noticeable.

I am quite impartial.

I am only happy with stage 1 in terms of bang for the buck. I paid $300 for what is likely 25-35whp. I have never said that is a huge increase in power. It is a good increase for the money. I am much more interested in stage 2.

Just to make sure, I am going to check on previous postings. Like this, this is from the day I installed it:

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

While I notice the difference, I am handicapped by being on 235mm snow tires. It's a big enough power increase that traction control is cutting power early and often.

April I will have 275mm rear Pilot SuperSports, so planting power should not be a problem.

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

APR stage 1 was a big diff, larger boost increase than BMS stage 1. Going to stage 2 in the VW was not that large of a difference.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

You might be confusing me with someone else.

"Reading all the BMS posts I could find, you are also the only one that reports the huge increases in power, like the statement above."

Please show me where I state the gains are huge.

I state clearly that coming from my APR tune on my most recent car, the gain is not as noticeable.

I am quite impartial.

I am only happy with stage 1 in terms of bang for the buck. I paid $300 for what is likely 25-35whp. I have never said that is a huge increase in power. It is a good increase for the money. I am much more interested in stage 2.

Just to make sure, I am going to check on previous postings. Like this, this is from the day I installed it:

I apologize, you are right, I was confusing you with someone else. Sorry, it's still early morning and I have a sore throat

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by metrathon

I apologize, you are right, I was confusing you with someone else. Sorry, it's still early morning and I have a sore throat

LOL, no worries.

I actually wanted to check myself and make sure I was not going around and mis-stating my results.

[topcat87]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

The number from tuner to tuner is meaningless.

Coming from tunings 300ZX's, Supras, Saabs etc. One tuners stage 1, stage 2, 4 can be completely different. Some had different mashups of hardware, some were more timid than others.

Stage 2 BMS is being tested on 91, as that is the readily available fuel to the tuner in Cali. It requires no hardware. Its closer in price to the AFE. I don't know how you can qualify the stage 2 as aggressive as we don't know the details of the 3 iterations(stage 1-2 BMS and AFE).

So I see nothing wrong by comparing tune to tune if hardware is the same, fuel is the same, and price is that close. Pretty damn apples to apples. I don't see a point in getting hung up in what one calls a stage 1 vs the others 2.

AFE, for all we know, wanted to get in and out with one tune that makes a lot of people happy with no interest in further developing other stages. So it might be more aggressive than BMS stage 1 who had planned other stages all along. Does that mean AFE is really a stage 1.5? Just kidding.

going by your simple math a 320i should be equals to a 335i. i wonder why the it is not

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by topcat87

going by your simple math a 320i should be equals to a 335i. i wonder why the it is not

You lost me on that one.

[ScarecrowBoat]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

You lost me on that one.

+1

Side note, can you up the boost on the JB1 to +4 psi? I haven't been able to find any sort of thread on how to do it. I am assuming it's similar to my JB4 in my old N54 135i but don't know the parameters...

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat

+1

Side note, can you up the boost on the JB1 to +4 psi? I haven't been able to find any sort of thread on how to do it. I am assuming it's similar to my JB4 in my old N54 135i but don't know the parameters...

Yes you can, I did it last week.

You download the software and make sure you have the $35 cable. Make sure its used only with 93 in the tank.

You just change the 3.00 to 4.00 and MAKE SURE YOU HIT save.

I hit enter and drove around for a day thinking I felt no difference. I hooked it back up, saw it was still at 3.00 and hit save instead.

7-8whp, not a big difference. But if you have a tuned butt-dyno, you can detect it.

[buildbright]

After watching New "tuners" grenade new engines or make undrivable tunes, I recommend going with a tuner who cares about safety over peak numbers. BMS, Cobb, PROcede, and Hartge have proven themselves so I lean to these companies. I am sure AFE makes great exhaust and intakes but making a tune is a different world.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by buildbright

After watching New "tuners" grenade new engines or make undrivable tunes, I recommend going with a tuner who cares about safety over peak numbers. BMS, Cobb, PROcede, and Hartge have proven themselves so I lean to these companies. I am sure AFE makes great exhaust and intakes but making a tune is a different world.

I tend to agree with you.

Buy the specialty of whatever the vendor sells.

When I go to a steakhouse, I get the steak. When I get the lone chicken dish, I often come away disappointed.