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      12-03-2012, 04:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CirrusSR22 View Post
For November:
Acura: Up 24%
Cadillac: Up 30%
Infiniti: Up 41%
Mercedes: Up 15%

http://m.leftlanenews.com/november-s...-chrysler.html

The US economy is picking-up.
Excellent news indeed. Let's hope it's true because we're all relying on you!
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      12-03-2012, 04:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Denver View Post
So with all this extra revenue they should be able to engineer us m fans the m car we desire!! The the engine should still be high revving if you go turbo, remove engine noise from speakers, lightweight, non electric steering, etc.
They might. If the M5 is a foreshadow of what to expect, the M3 will continue with hydraulic steering.

However I bet BMW is hard at work on electric steering technology that can mimic what they offered through hydraulics. One that's user adjustable would be great. Satisfy the moms and enthusiasts at the same time. Wishful thinking.
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      12-03-2012, 04:38 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by M3Denver View Post
So with all this extra revenue they should be able to engineer us m fans the m car we desire!! The the engine should still be high revving if you go turbo, remove engine noise from speakers, lightweight, non electric steering, etc.
The bean counters control the brand now.
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      12-03-2012, 04:41 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupenal
Falsely inflated #s for the F30

42% increase in sales over November 2011 is because the e90 was on its last legs and who would buy an e90 with the f30 coming out in a couple of months.

Better number to look at is the 2011 vs 2012 YTD #s. 3.5% increase and you introduced a brand new model? F30s aren't selling too hot for a new model.

In contrast, for the year 2006 (first year of e90), BMW sold 17% more 3 series world wide compared to 2005. I wasn't able to pull up US sales numbers, nor see a breakdown between coupe/sedan, but regardless 17% is a much higher number than 3.5%.

You can attribute several factors such as the stagnant global economy in 2012 vs. the boom year of 2006. Bottom line, F30s are not selling well enough to the point that BMW right now is offering $1,000 Holiday Cash for a brand new model 3 series.
+1

The 3.5% ytd is the key figure.

Combination of people wanting the new F30 and people capitalizing on incentives for the outgoing E90
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      12-03-2012, 04:49 PM   #27
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I do see a lot of F30s now..mostly base and sport line...I've only seen two M sport 335is....very beautiful
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      12-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
This is only semi-accurate. You've omitted the fact that half of the "3-series" lineup is the old E92 coupe, which is obviously selling less because many buyers will be waiting for the upcoming F32.

Fact is, you can't establish F30 versus E90 numbers at all from the provided figures.

I agree that it's much more effective to look at the year to date figures, because there's only a 3,000 unit difference, which was almost entirely achieved in November.
The same is/can be said about the e46 to e90/e92 transition back in 2006/2007. The e92 is currently not selling well (if at all) because everyone knows the F32 is coming out. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a dramatic dropoff in 2006 e46 coupe sales since everyone was awaiting the 2007 e92. BMW has had to push out $3,200 in options credit for the MY12 e92 earlier this summer, and is now pushing $1,500 in holiday credit for the MY13 e92.

Bottom line - since BMW has maintained a similar 3 series lineup rollout schedule for the F30/F32 as it did for the E90/E92, I stand behind my belief that the F30 is simply not selling well.
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      12-03-2012, 05:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupenal
In contrast, for the year 2006 (first year of e90), BMW sold 17% more 3 series world wide compared to 2005...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupenal View Post
The same is/can be said about the e46 to e90/e92 transition back in 2006/2007. The e92 is currently not selling well (if at all) because everyone knows the F32 is coming out. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a dramatic dropoff in 2006 e46 coupe sales since everyone was awaiting the 2007 e92. BMW has had to push out $3,200 in options credit for the MY12 e92 earlier this summer, and is now pushing $1,500 in holiday credit for the MY13 e92.

Bottom line - since BMW has maintained a similar 3 series lineup rollout schedule for the F30/F32 as it did for the E90/E92, I stand behind my belief that the F30 is simply not selling well.
The E90 was available for purchase starting March 2005 (as a 2006 model).
The F30 was available for purchase starting February 2012 (as a 2012 model).

Consequently, 2005 would correlate much better with 2012. In both cases, the sedan was introduced in the late winter / early spring, and the coupe was replaced the following year.

And 2005 3-series sales were quite flat when compared to 2004. Worldwide, it was a decrease.
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      12-03-2012, 05:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
However I bet BMW is hard at work on electric steering technology that can mimic what they offered through hydraulics. One that's user adjustable would be great. Satisfy the moms and enthusiasts at the same time. Wishful thinking.
There is nothing wrong with the existing steering in my new F30-335i M Sport.
And it is adjustable. It has decent road feel, it's very direct and accurate and it has good on centre feel. If you haven't already done so, maybe you should treat yourself to a long test drive before you assess the steering. IMO, the new VSS is a significant improvement over the very heavy weighted E90 steering.
And compared to any of the several E90s that I drove, the F30-335i is a vastly improved car !
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      12-03-2012, 06:01 PM   #31
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gotta love the 3 series....
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      12-03-2012, 06:32 PM   #32
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This chart from the GT thread is quite timely:



From this post by Matski:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=294

This shows an estimate for the 3 series saloon worldwide to finish 2012 with about a 10% increase over 2011 numbers, while the 3 series coupe is estimated to finish the year off by almost a quarter.
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      12-03-2012, 07:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
The E90 was available for purchase starting March 2005 (as a 2006 model).
The F30 was available for purchase starting February 2012 (as a 2012 model).

Consequently, 2005 would correlate much better with 2012. In both cases, the sedan was introduced in the late winter / early spring, and the coupe was replaced the following year.

And 2005 3-series sales were quite flat when compared to 2004. Worldwide, it was a decrease.
Good to know the e90 production start date as all my prior comments are thus inaccurate as I was comparing apples to oranges.

Somewhat surprising that 2005 3 series sales were flat compared to 2004.
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      12-03-2012, 07:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
The E90 was available for purchase starting March 2005 (as a 2006 model).
The F30 was available for purchase starting February 2012 (as a 2012 model).

Consequently, 2005 would correlate much better with 2012. In both cases, the sedan was introduced in the late winter / early spring, and the coupe was replaced the following year.

And 2005 3-series sales were quite flat when compared to 2004. Worldwide, it was a decrease.
i think it would be more accurate to compare the 2006 model year

with the combined 2012+2013 years. had the 2012 F30 come out in march or april, its concievable that bmw would never have had a 2012 F30 , and possibly had a short model year 2012 E90 like the 2005 E46.



that aside, i think its a totally different comparison . i wouldn't say the F30 is a poor BMW at all, its more that the competition has made BMW less of a definitive favorite and the economy. In 2005 when the e90 came out you were looking at the B7 audi, the much much worse than the current car W203 C class, and the 1st generation lexus IS (at least for 4-5 months anyway) and the 1st generation G35 .

The e90 was much better than those cars, and it was a booming economy. I'd figure at the time if you were in the market and could afford it the E90 was probably the clear best choice. the F30 did still increase sales. Not to mention BMW has competition from itself in the 1 series / X1 (they aren't exactly the same, but at least in america i'm sure if the 1 / x1 didnt exist and the F30 was the cheapest BMW there'd be more F30 sales)
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      12-03-2012, 08:12 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post
There is nothing wrong with the existing steering in my new F30-335i M Sport.
And it is adjustable. It has decent road feel, it's very direct and accurate and it has good on centre feel. If you haven't already done so, maybe you should treat yourself to a long test drive before you assess the steering. IMO, the new VSS is a significant improvement over the very heavy weighted E90 steering.
And compared to any of the several E90s that I drove, the F30-335i is a vastly improved car !
I've driven 3 F30's. None had DHP because it seems dealers in South FL aren't ordering cars with this option. The 335i MSport I have on order has DHP and should be here this week or early next. I'll evaluate and let you know. I sure hope I like it or I'm buying out the lease on my E90 MSport and driving it for another 2 years until the F30 LCI or something else I like comes out.
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      12-03-2012, 08:54 PM   #36
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I thought M Sport was just cosmetic options. Has that changed? I've driven 3 F30s. Two were sport line, and even in sport mode, the steering sucked. I sneezed once and was half way in the other lane cause the steering was so light.
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      12-03-2012, 08:55 PM   #37
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Oh, and just because its selling doesnt mean it's is better.
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      12-03-2012, 09:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
I thought M Sport was just cosmetic options. Has that changed? I've driven 3 F30s. Two were sport line, and even in sport mode, the steering sucked. I sneezed once and was half way in the other lane cause the steering was so light.
IMO, your last statement is far short of reality. At 130 kph (about 70 mph), if I remove my hands from the wheel, the car tracks like it is on rails. If you drove "half way into the other lane", I do not believe the car was at fault. Did you drive a F30 with VSS in Sport mode ? I highly doubt it from your comments.
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Last edited by DerekS; 12-03-2012 at 11:28 PM..
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      12-03-2012, 09:12 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
I thought M Sport was just cosmetic options. Has that changed? I've driven 3 F30s. Two were sport line, and even in sport mode, the steering sucked. I sneezed once and was half way in the other lane cause the steering was so light.
The M-Sport is largely cosmetic, but does see a few functional changes:
-- Thicker-rimmed steering wheel (sort of cosmetic, sort of not)
-- Weighted, short-throw shifter (6MT)
-- Euro-spec brake pads, which some claim have better initial bite but more brake dust

As to the steering, the heft of the steering in sport mode does feel significantly lighter than an e90, but on par with my '01 e46. Feedback is definitely muted relative to both generations, but it's still there, still linear, and still precise. I think it's one of those things that one would adjust to after a few days.
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      12-03-2012, 09:35 PM   #40
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i think November sales are up mostly due to Sandy. Water made it to within 20 feet to my house. Cars were floating all over the place. Just in my neighborhood, i would say at least few hundred totaled. It hurt to drive around and see abandoned flooded out bimmers
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      12-03-2012, 11:16 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMM_OMG View Post
The M-Sport is largely cosmetic, but does see a few functional changes:
-- Thicker-rimmed steering wheel (sort of cosmetic, sort of not)
-- Weighted, short-throw shifter (6MT)
-- Euro-spec brake pads, which some claim have better initial bite but more brake dust
M Sport also includes 18" staggered alloy wheels and summer performance tires which provide better traction than the square set-up with all seasons that is standard on the Sportline.

With respect to the Canadian version, M Sport adaptive suspension and M Sport brakes are also available options on the 335i M Sport.
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      12-03-2012, 11:25 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMM_OMG View Post
As to the steering, the heft of the steering in sport mode does feel significantly lighter than an e90, but on par with my '01 e46.
This is correct. My wife drives an E93; the steering effort, especially at low speed, is very heavy compared to my F30. I much prefer the VSS of my F30. If my memory serves me right, the F30 steering effort feels similar to what I experienced with my retired E46/ZSP.
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      12-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
I thought M Sport was just cosmetic options. Has that changed? I've driven 3 F30s. Two were sport line, and even in sport mode, the steering sucked. I sneezed once and was half way in the other lane cause the steering was so light.
IMO, your last statement is far short of reality. At 130 kph (about 70 mph), if I remove my hands from the wheel, the car tracks like it is on rails. If you drove "half way into the other lane", I do not believe the car was at fault. Did you drive a F30 with VSS in Sport mode ? I highly doubt it from your comments.
I don't know honestly. One was the red 335 on the tour. So I'm not sure of its exact options. The 335 I drove off the lot did not have it. The 328 loaner I had for 4 days sucked even in sport mode. I'm not saying E90s are the best, I'm not that limited, but they certainly feel tighter and tougher. Don't get wrong, I kinda love parts of the F30, like the "woof" fart when shifting under hard acceleration, the quick transmission, and the engine.
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      12-04-2012, 12:04 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP
The x1 isn't even considered a "truck."

lmao
Why would it be... Most would argue the same should be said for the X3, X5, and X6. BMW doesn't make "trucks."
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