[Never Convicted]

CAFE standards are going up in 2016. So, you make a car with a smaller motor, you sell a bunch, and your overall fleet numbers rise. It's just the way of the world now. Gubmint fines would eat away the profits.

[Fraggy]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

So I assume this will lend to the same trend BMW has been up to recently. Introduce a new base model, and hike up the MSRP on the existing models to move them 'upmarket.'

Unfortunately, this will sell because some people only want to have the BMW on the hood.


BMW, you are making a very strong case for me looking elsewhere for my next car. Not that you cared much about me anyway.


- Loyal (not any more) BMW owner.

In the same boat. Still physically in a BMW but mentally and emotionally gone.

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by Mako

Future of 3 series:

during the refresh in 2 years this will happen:

entry:
320i, competing with base Audi A4, it will get more power, around 210
next step:
328i, to compete with the Audi 3.0T, but with better fuel effeciency, they will raise the power to about 260HP (on paper, probably 280 in real life) so it competes with the larger Audi engine performance wise, the i4 is capable of this

the 335i will be gone

M340i (or whatever they call it, maybe still M335i) will compete with the S4, it will be more unique because there will be no regular 340i, and tons of BMW buyers care greatly about the badge on their vehicle and don't simply want an M in front of the same numbers the masses have if they are paying $10K more. The M340i will use the i6 (same as new M3) but with smaller turbos and around 350 horsepower, compete price and performance wise with the S4.

Then the RS4 and M3 will compete as they do now (well the US won't have an RS4 but you get the point)

This will also allow for greater engine (performance) gaps between the models and price gaps as well, 320 to 328 will add ~50 HP, 328 to M340 will add almost 100 HP and M340 to M3 will add around 70 HP

OK, I'll play the forecast game too
I'd say the F30 LCI with probably keep the 320i and 328i as they are (they are new engines) and the 335i will be replaced by a new version of the N55 engine. My money is greater fuel efficiency and on 330HP/330lb-ft. Whether it will be called 335i, M335i or 340i remains to be seen. Indeed I bet both engines will be a "detuned" version of the M3/M4 engine --both would be double 3-cyl engines BMW (the one recently introduced).

Audi on the other hand will retain the 2.0T apparently bumped up to 225HP (sandwitched between the 320i and 328i). Audi may also introduce their new 3.0T six, mostly in 330HP form, not 270HP.
Mercedes will keep the 250 engine (200HP) and then it's anybody's game.

Overall, BMW has the better, more sensical, lineup.

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by ft1337

Should we expect a stiff price increase on the upcoming 2014 328 and 335 to "make space" for this entry-level 320?

I don't think so, the 328i is already both about $4,000 above the 320i and $4,000 below the 335i. That seems to be a healthy gap to me.

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by Fraggy

In the same boat. Still physically in a BMW but mentally and emotionally gone.

Where did you emotionally go? Anywhere?
Also, could owning a 335i F30 reconcile you with BMW?

[DMafia46]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

[Dan_335i]

we canadians already have a 320i in canada but not xdrive. but i wouldnt buy that car anyways.

[barkles]

Originally Posted by Fraggy

In the same boat. Still physically in a BMW but mentally and emotionally gone.

Think about it this way:

2011 E90 328i
3.0 N/A I-6 producing 230HP and 200TQ
0 to 60 in 6.4 seconds
28 MPG Highway
MSRP: $34,600

2014 F30 320i
2.0 TT I-4
producing 180HP and 200TQ
0 to 60 in 7 seconds (underrated, we know the F30 328i is almost a second faster with traction off)
34 MPG Highway
MSRP: $33,445

And you're geting the F30 chasis. What are you expecting BMW to do?

[speed12sil]

Originally Posted by yamazaho

I actually owned three BMWs before I sold my E90

I was making that comment to him that at least you have(or had I guess) BMWs in the past. Didn't mean that as an insult to you by the way. Anyway off topic already.

[simianspeedster]

Whether or not you like this car, you have to understand its purpose.

BMW has become more of a mass market brand -- not in volume (yet), but definitely in appeal. A lot of potential BMW buyers couldn't tell the difference between a 320i and a 328i, but they will be attracted to this car because the lease payments will drop $40+ per month from a 328i and it will otherwise be the same car to them. It will reduce lost sales to Mercedes, Cadillac, Infiniti and perhaps other brands who could otherwise undercut BMW. And it will allow dealers to order decently equipped cars that sticker under $40K whereas most 328is on dealer lots sticker over $40K today.

Some economic barriers are real, some are psychological, but they exist in buyers' minds, so BMW is reacting to stay price competitive. I wouldn't buy one, but thousands surely will.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by Frencholivier

OK, I'll play the forecast game too
I'd say the F30 LCI with probably keep the 320i and 328i as they are (they are new engines) and the 335i will be replaced by a new version of the N55 engine. My money is greater fuel efficiency and on 330HP/330lb-ft. Whether it will be called 335i, M335i or 340i remains to be seen. Indeed I bet both engines will be a "detuned" version of the M3/M4 engine --both would be double 3-cyl engines BMW (the one recently introduced).

Audi on the other hand will retain the 2.0T apparently bumped up to 225HP (sandwitched between the 320i and 328i). Audi may also introduce their new 3.0T six, mostly in 330HP form, not 270HP.
Mercedes will keep the 250 engine (200HP) and then it's anybody's game.

Overall, BMW has the better, more sensical, lineup.

the 328i almost competes price wise with the A4 3.0 now, they will keep the same i4 motor, that is for sure, but they can easily increase the boost to up the power to compete on the track with the A4s.

I know a lot of people are waiting for the N55 replacement, but I just don't see it adding power, I think it would be another N54 to N55 like move, same 300 HP but maybe more effecient. If they indeed keep 3 engines plus have a M Performance version and full blown M, I don't think the top line regular version would have 330HP, because speculation is the new M3 will still only have about 415 horsepower (but a big torque jump). So if you had a 335i with 330 horsepower and the M3 with 415, where would you put a M335i? anything over 350 and its too close to a M3.

Right now Audi goes from 270HP with the 3.0 base to 333HP with the S4 version of that same engine. I believe BMW will do something similar with the M performance version of the new 3/4 series and not just the little 20HP bumps the old "is" versions used to get.

Mercedes is not even a contender (except for AMG), their base versions have always been horrible for performance and effeciency, its sad when your MPG for your smallest car in the US is as bad as the C class and your performance is also the worst in the group (again excluding AMG which does an excellent job).

[Fugly M3]

it's gotta be a diesel, 180 @ 5,000 rpm? in a gas car that doesn't make sense...

[SamS]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

it's gotta be a diesel, 180 @ 5,000 rpm? in a gas car that doesn't make sense...

Sure it does. If it was a diesel, it would be 180hp @ <3000rpm

The "i" is for gas engines, "d" for diesel.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

it's gotta be a diesel, 180 @ 5,000 rpm? in a gas car that doesn't make sense...

If they put too small of a turbo which runs out of breath, it's possible.

Like I said, I would wait to see a dyno.

[Naambezet]

Why are there so many ignorant people here?
So, BMW is introducing a new entry level car which is already sold in many other countries, including their homecountry and some people are crying because the car is more affordable now? How is that affecting people who drive 335is and M3s?
Grow up people.

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by Mako

the 328i almost competes price wise with the A4 3.0 now, they will keep the same i4 motor, that is for sure, but they can easily increase the boost to up the power to compete on the track with the A4s.

I know a lot of people are waiting for the N55 replacement, but I just don't see it adding power, I think it would be another N54 to N55 like move, same 300 HP but maybe more effecient. If they indeed keep 3 engines plus have a M Performance version and full blown M, I don't think the top line regular version would have 330HP, because speculation is the new M3 will still only have about 415 horsepower (but a big torque jump). So if you had a 335i with 330 horsepower and the M3 with 415, where would you put a M335i? anything over 350 and its too close to a M3.

Right now Audi goes from 270HP with the 3.0 base to 333HP with the S4 version of that same engine. I believe BMW will do something similar with the M performance version of the new 3/4 series and not just the little 20HP bumps the old "is" versions used to get.

Mercedes is not even a contender (except for AMG), their base versions have always been horrible for performance and effeciency, its sad when your MPG for your smallest car in the US is as bad as the C class and your performance is also the worst in the group (again excluding AMG which does an excellent job).

I couldn't agree more. That would leave us with the following line-up for the F30 in the US. It works out nicely with 60HP increments from one model to the next!
320i -- 180HP -- affordable entry-level BMW dynamics
328i -- 240HP -- efficient mid-range performance
335i or 340i -- 300HP? -- top of the line w/ N55 replacement
M335i or M340i -- 330HP? -- true enthusiast performance (S4 and Q50 fighter?)
M3/M4 -- 420HP? -- supersports car (RS4/C63 fighter)

Add to that the coupe and convertible and wagon and gran coupe versions (will we get the 3GT in the States?)... and you got one hell of a line-up there. Good luck, competition

My uncertainty is on whether or not BMW will go for a regular 335/340 and a special M-version (a la M135i or 335is) or just one of those. I think the gap between the 328 and future 335 needs to widen in the future. And maybe only the coupe and gran coupe versions will get the M/is treatment... who knows.

[Frencholivier]

Originally Posted by Naambezet

Why are there so many ignorant people here?
So, BMW is introducing a new entry level car which is already sold in many other countries, including their homecountry and some people are crying because the car is more affordable now? How is that affecting people who drive 335is and M3s?
Grow up people.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

it's gotta be a diesel, 180 @ 5,000 rpm? in a gas car that doesn't make sense...

Current 328i (N20) hits peak power at 5,000RPM, too. BMW's own specs say that it makes 240HP from 5,000-6,000 so I'd say it's safe to assume this motor will have the same power curve. I've seen magazines list peak power like this, by giving the lowest RPM that the power is available at (5k) instead of indicating the entire range.

Also, what's all this talk of an "A4 3.0T" ? Are you guys talking about an S4? Check Audi USA's website, they only sell A4 2.0Ts now.

[GT1281]

Why do I feel the mpg numbers don't seem impressive. My F30 328i gets similar numbers. I average 27 mpg half city and half highway in the comfort setting. The lowest I went was 26 mpg. I just feel that a 320d would be the better choice. My wife is dying for a diesel X3 to replace her 2011 X3 with the N52.

[GT1281]

Originally Posted by SamS

It says right in the first post:

*Sport package available including 18-inch wheels with summer tires and increased top speed limiter, sport seats, M Sport suspension, M steering wheel and anthracite headliner.

Then I think it's BS that my Sportline couldn't come with a M Sport steering wheel but the new 320 can

[Naambezet]

And be happy, here in the Netherlands we have 2 versions of the 320i, one has the N20 with 184 HP and one has the 1.6 N16 (prince engine, with twinscroll turbo) with only 170 HP

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Current 328i (N20) hits peak power at 5,000RPM, too. BMW's own specs say that it makes 240HP from 5,000-6,000 so I'd say it's safe to assume this motor will have the same power curve. I've seen magazines list peak power like this, by giving the lowest RPM that the power is available at (5k) instead of indicating the entire range.

Also, what's all this talk of an "A4 3.0T" ? Are you guys talking about an S4? Check Audi USA's website, they only sell A4 2.0Ts now.

On my dyno, it made peak HP around 5k-6k but carried much of it to redline with very little fall off.