[BMWMico]

Now available! Here is my opinionated demonstration:

[lawgone]

Thanks for this. You asked an interesting question, "Why would you want to use Apple Maps if you already have BMW Navigation?" There are three main reasons:

1. Apple Maps are continually updated for FREE. That BMW and other manufactures continue to charge $250 for map updates is insulting.
2. When you search for a place on your iPhone you can then pull up that address right in Apple Maps. This is much easier than entering the address via iDrive and is why (combined with reason 1) that even though I have Nav on my 2014 335i, I use Apple Maps for my Navigation.
3. And here's the biggest one and something that really has me questioning whether I'll get a BMW next spring when my lease is up...most car makers don't require you to purchase their navigation to get Apple Car Play! They know people prefer to use it or Google Maps over their Nav and to have both is redundant. Heck, my friend test drive a Kia the other day and Car Play was standard on a $30k car. The sales person said they're not even offering Nav anymore because everyone prefers their cell phones.

BMW is using this for a cash grab yet again. The features you get standard in other cars and have to pay several thousand for on a BMW keeps getting longer and more insulting. Even safety features like a back up camera usually require some thousand dollar package. At some point you have to ask yourself, why am I willing to pay $20k more for this car over a competitor? Is it $20k more fun to drive, faster, better looking, engineered? Or are you simply paying for a name? At least before I could say, "look how flat this takes corners" but that's not true of modern 3ers other than the M3. BMW needs to reevaluate its value proposition.

[vp]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Bought my first BMW this year and probably my last one! I feel like BMW may go in the direction of Nokia and Blackberry if they don't listen to their customer needs and keep up with the industry, unfortunate!

Originally Posted by lawgone

Thanks for this. You asked an interesting question, "Why would you want to use Apple Maps if you already have BMW Navigation?" There are three main reasons:

1. Apple Maps are continually updated for FREE. That BMW and other manufactures continue to charge $250 for map updates is insulting.
2. When you search for a place on your iPhone you can then pull up that address right in Apple Maps. This is much easier than entering the address via iDrive and is why (combined with reason 1) that even though I have Nav on my 2014 335i, I use Apple Maps for my Navigation.
3. And here's the biggest one and something that really has me questioning whether I'll get a BMW next spring when my lease is up...most car makers don't require you to purchase their navigation to get Apple Car Play! They know people prefer to use it or Google Maps over their Nav and to have both is redundant. Heck, my friend test drive a Kia the other day and Car Play was standard on a $30k car. The sales person said they're not even offering Nav anymore because everyone prefers their cell phones.

BMW is using this for a cash grab yet again. The features you get standard in other cars and have to pay several thousand for on a BMW keeps getting longer and more insulting. Even safety features like a back up camera usually require some thousand dollar package. At some point you have to ask yourself, why am I willing to pay $20k more for this car over a competitor? Is it $20k more fun to drive, faster, better looking, engineered? Or are you simply paying for a name? At least before I could say, "look how flat this takes corners" but that's not true of modern 3ers other than the M3. BMW needs to reevaluate its value proposition.

[BMWMico]

When you search for a place on your iPhone you can then pull up that address right in Apple Maps. This is much easier than entering the address via iDrive and is why (combined with reason 1) that even though I have Nav on my 2014 335i, I use Apple Maps for my Navigation.

You can actually search for points of interest including online search, which will do the same, just integrated into the nav system. It is getting better with each year.

And here's the biggest one and something that really has me questioning whether I'll get a BMW next spring when my lease is up...most car makers don't require you to purchase their navigation to get Apple Car Play!

I totally agree, I don't see the point in this.

At some point you have to ask yourself, why am I willing to pay $20k more for this car over a competitor? Is it $20k more fun to drive, faster, better looking, engineered? Or are you simply paying for a name? At least before I could say, "look how flat this takes corners" but that's not true of modern 3ers other than the M3.

Here we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't know what you are comparing the 3 series to, but it is hardly $20k more, and there is still significant difference in the driving experience. How much more people pay for Porsche's compared to competition?

[Fooljam]

Maps are free with those with EVO units since 2015, until 2018 though

[M-Sport Wagon Funnnnnnnnn]

I do agree with lawgone on most points but disagree as well. A BMW is a sum of all points. Just because BMW charges more for something that is standard in other cars doesn't make BMW money grubbers. I'm glad BMW is integrating CarPlay but even if they didn't, I'd still buy one.

On a side but related note, you can send directions to your BMW Nav through the connected app I heard which you can use via your phone so it may not be Google but it may still work.

[alistairk]

Originally Posted by lawgone

Thanks for this. You asked an interesting question, "Why would you want to use Apple Maps if you already have BMW Navigation?" There are three main reasons:

1. Apple Maps are continually updated for FREE. That BMW and other manufactures continue to charge $250 for map updates is insulting.
2. When you search for a place on your iPhone you can then pull up that address right in Apple Maps. This is much easier than entering the address via iDrive and is why (combined with reason 1) that even though I have Nav on my 2014 335i, I use Apple Maps for my Navigation.
3. And here's the biggest one and something that really has me questioning whether I'll get a BMW next spring when my lease is up...most car makers don't require you to purchase their navigation to get Apple Car Play! They know people prefer to use it or Google Maps over their Nav and to have both is redundant. Heck, my friend test drive a Kia the other day and Car Play was standard on a $30k car. The sales person said they're not even offering Nav anymore because everyone prefers their cell phones.

BMW is using this for a cash grab yet again. The features you get standard in other cars and have to pay several thousand for on a BMW keeps getting longer and more insulting. Even safety features like a back up camera usually require some thousand dollar package. At some point you have to ask yourself, why am I willing to pay $20k more for this car over a competitor? Is it $20k more fun to drive, faster, better looking, engineered? Or are you simply paying for a name? At least before I could say, "look how flat this takes corners" but that's not true of modern 3ers other than the M3. BMW needs to reevaluate its value proposition.

For the life of me I can't understand the "everything should be standard" attitude people have. It's not like BMW's margins are exorbitantly higher than other car brands. By not including all the things as standard, people can include whatever they want and not pay for things they don't want.

You bemoan having to get navigation in order to get carplay without thinking about why that is. Well, there are significant hardware upgrades such as the touch sensitive controller and high resolution screen that carplay would require in order to operate. If your gripe is that this hardware should be standard, then it would raise the price of the car as a whole. To say that a $30k Kia has it standard misses the point entirely. The Kia doesn't have the build quality, the feel, the engine or the Bluetooth integration (which in the bmw makes carplay mostly a simple graphic issue rather than adding any actual usable features) that the BMW has. Also, the Kia doesn't offer a manual transmission.

To address your points:

1) As someone else pointed out, new BMWs have free over-the-air map updates.
2) The connected app allows you to look up an address on your phone and send it to your BMWs navigation system. Works flawlessly in my experience.
3) My girlfriend's kia has apple maps and I infinitely prefer my navigation in the BMW. For one, the HUD makes it simple to follow and removes the need for annoying audible instructions and 2) I never have to worry about reception issues.

The real issue here is if you don't get enough enjoyment from the drive of your car to justify the price...that's subjective and more power to you if you don't feel like you're getting enough utility for the money; indeed, that's why my girlfriend went from an A5 to the Kia. However, to say BMW or Audi are greedy, terrible companies for charging for more doesn't allow for the fact that different people have different priorities which the BMW or Audi fit nicely.

[Dan203]

Is there going to be an option to add CarPlay to older cars? Even if it's a $300-$500 upgrade I'd consider doing it.

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by Dan203

Is there going to be an option to add CarPlay to older cars? Even if it's a $300-$500 upgrade I'd consider doing it.

Of course not

You need to have NBT EVO ID5 from factory
Then you can buy the app from the BMW Apps store.

Or you can buy a new headunit and pay someone who can do it for you or sell the full retrofit kit ($$$)

[vp]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

Of course not

You need to have NBT EVO ID5 from factory
Then you can buy the app from the BMW Apps store.

Or you can buy a new headunit and pay someone who can do it for you or sell the full retrofit kit ($$$)

May be I don't understand but what is the difference in the 2016 NBT Evo units and the 2017s? Is higher resolution a requirement? Because bimmer tech can retrofit on 2016 units through software only.

Even Kia, Hyundai and Ford amongst others provided updates to 2014 models which I'm sure didn't have high res screens.

So it appears to me that BMW doesn't want to update older models when it is feasible.

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by vpatel787

May be I don't understand but what is the difference in the 2016 NBT Evo units and the 2017s? Is higher resolution a requirement? Because bimmer tech can retrofit on 2016 units through software only.

Even Kia, Hyundai and Ford amongst others provided updates to 2014 models which I'm sure didn't have high res screens.

So it appears to me that BMW doesn't want to update older models when it is feasible.

Is your car a 2016 model?

The difference between a pre July 2016 F3x F8x EVO unit is that the post July 2016 models have a brand new software new design etc with a lot of internal differences with previous 1.5 EVO unit called ID 4.

While technically it is possible to upgrade the ID4 software to a ID5 software or even ID6, BMW never proposed such updates in the past and there is very little chance they will propose this on the current models produced before July 2016.

The main reason is that due to a high volume or car breakings and stolen NBT radio black market, BMW has locked down the FSC certificates, internet access etc.
Since the last few months it is no longer possible to change FSC certs on those NBT EVO units with recent firmware update.

If it was still possible, everybody would have Apple Carplay, stolen certs from valid cars with customers who actually paid for it.
So you would have thousands and thousands free Apple Carplay NBT EVO ID 5 retrofits and Apple would not get a cent for it.
Neither Apple and BMW want this. So it is seriously locked down now.

Does not prevent people from doing it, but it is much harder than it was.

This is just corporations trying to protect their interests

[vp]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

Is your car a 2016 model?

The difference between a pre July 2016 F3x F8x EVO unit is that the post July 2016 models have a brand new software new design etc with a lot of internal differences with previous 1.5 EVO unit called ID 4.

While technically it is possible to upgrade the ID4 software to a ID5 software or even ID6, BMW never proposed such updates in the past and there is very little chance they will propose this on the current models produced before July 2016.

The main reason is that due to a high volume or car breakings and stolen NBT radio black market, BMW has locked down the FSC certificates, internet access etc.
Since the last few months it is no longer possible to change FSC certs on those NBT EVO units with recent firmware update.

If it was still possible, everybody would have Apple Carplay, stolen certs from valid cars with customers who actually paid for it.
So you would have thousands and thousands free Apple Carplay NBT EVO ID 5 retrofits and Apple would not get a cent for it.
Neither Apple and BMW want this. So it is seriously locked down now.

Does not prevent people from doing it, but it is much harder than it was.

This is just corporations trying to protect their interests

Yes I have a 2016. I see your point but I still don't understand how other car makers are giving the updates out and that for free as well without worrying about having to pay Apple.

Secondly, based on what you are saying, then 2017 models will have their units targeted for black markets retrofits. Their approach doesn't stop 2017 models from being targeted.

Their approach should have been to give out the updates to all feasible models for free to avoid such complications and prevent a cause for black market. I don't know why they decided to charge $300 to 2017 models other than make money and if that's the case, allow retrofits for the same $300 cost.

From a customer point of view, me spending $60k in June should get me the same amount of car if spent in August.

Yes I understand they are a business, but the customers voice and loyalty should also be at the top of their values.

Companies like Tesla, Apple and others do what's right for their customers while also making money.

[Dan203]

Is there an actual hardware difference between 2016 NBT and the 2017 NBT? Or is this purely software?

I literally just missed the cut off for 2017 MY. Mine was ordered in mid March, built in May and delivered in July.

Not that I care that much. The main reason I wanted CarPlay was for messages, and based on that video it doesn't allow you to read messages anyway only listen to them via Siri which I'm pretty sure I can do now on the old system. (haven't tried, but I believe you can activate Siri via the voice button on the steering wheel)

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by vpatel787

Yes I have a 2016. I see your point but I still don't understand how other car makers are giving the updates out and that for free as well without worrying about having to pay Apple.

Secondly, based on what you are saying, then 2017 models will have their units targeted for black markets retrofits. Their approach doesn't stop 2017 models from being targeted.

Their approach should have been to give out the updates to all feasible models for free to avoid such complications and prevent a cause for black market. I don't know why they decided to charge $300 to 2017 models other than make money and if that's the case, allow retrofits for the same $300 cost.

From a customer point of view, me spending $60k in June should get me the same amount of car if spent in August.

Yes I understand they are a business, but the customers voice and loyalty should also be at the top of their values.

Companies like Tesla, Apple and others do what's right for their customers while also making money.

Let me put it this way.
Apple charges BMW so they can get Carplay in their cars.
BMW charges back the customer.

Kia is in a much tighter market with a lot more competitors than BMW is. So they give freebies, they still have to pay Apple. But they don't charge you for it because they want your business. KIA advertise a lot.
BMW advertise very little. They don't need to.

BMW competes with AUDI and MERCEDES.

Not the same market.

MERCEDES is driven certain people, AUDI is driven by people who never drove a BMW or are ex Passat lovers and now they have more money they see the Audi A4 as the ultimate social upgrade.

BMW does not give freebies. They don't need to. They sell more cars years on years.

My 2 cents

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by Dan203

Is there an actual hardware difference between 2016 NBT and the 2017 NBT? Or is this purely software?

If you have recent BMW made before 07/2016, then you have the EVO ID4, then to go to ID5 this is just a firmware upgrade. But you won't be able to get Apple Carplay and BMW Apps unless your ID4 unit is 1st virginised.
To get internet services you need an ATM too (Advanced Telematic Module), this is mandatory on the newer units.

[vp]

I appreciate your 2 cents for a good discussion.

Well since they pass on the charge to the customers, they should give 2016 and prior customers the option for a retrofit at the $300 cost and let the customer decide if its worth to them or not.

Yes generally, BMW has competed with AUDI and MERCEDES, but times are changing now and the offerings are getting more and more competitive.

A couple years ago, i couldn't even think of owning a german performance/luxury, but today I'm the proud owner of one, point is, people are now able to afford things that they previously thought were out of reach so Toyota, Kia, Honda, etc customers are now moving on to luxury brands and just not having the availability of options is a major set back. Forget CarPlay, why can't 2016 owners get ID5 which is only a software change and does BMW have to pay anyone fees for this?

Also to your point, if you look at sales figures this year, BMW is dropping in sales compared to last year.

Bottom line is, give the option to the customer and let the customer decide if they want to pay extra for it or not.

Originally Posted by Fooljam

Let me put it this way.
Apple charges BMW so they can get Carplay in their cars.
BMW charges back the customer.

Kia is in a much tighter market with a lot more competitors than BMW is. So they give freebies, they still have to pay Apple. But they don't charge you for it because they want your business. KIA advertise a lot.
BMW advertise very little. They don't need to.

BMW competes with AUDI and MERCEDES.

Not the same market.

MERCEDES is driven certain people, AUDI is driven by people who never drove a BMW or are ex Passat lovers and now they have more money they see the Audi A4 as the ultimate social upgrade.

BMW does not give freebies. They don't need to. They sell more cars years on years.

My 2 cents

[Dan203]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

If you have recent BMW made before 07/2016, then you have the EVO ID4, then to go to ID5 this is just a firmware upgrade. But you won't be able to get Apple Carplay and BMW Apps unless your ID4 unit is 1st virginised.
To get internet services you need an ATM too (Advanced Telematic Module), this is mandatory on the newer units.

I have the option to get the internet services for $100/year so I must have the ATM thing.

[Noxdiurna]

I just ordered a 3GT with Carplay.

The funny thing about the BMW Carplay is that it is totally wirelss while the most (if not all) of the Carplay vehicles require wire connection?

[wilbur_the_goose]

I have Car Play in my '16 Honda Civic Coupe (a very nice car by the way), and I hate it. It gets in the way all the time and doesn't support Waze.

For example, say I want to stream music from TuneIn. I can do it with Bluetooth, but I want to keep my iPhone charged so I plug it in. As soon as I do so, Car Play "takes over" from the native Honda headunit and I'm stuck with the clunky GUI and at best semi-responsive interface.

I much, much prefer the interface on my '14 BMW using the BMW connected app or the native Honda interface.

I was one that really wanted Car Play, and I'm so turned off by it now that I'd love to be able to disable it.

[BMWMico]

Originally Posted by Cegledi

On a side but related note, you can send directions to your BMW Nav through the connected app I heard which you can use via your phone so it may not be Google but it may still work.

Not direction, but an address, you find it with the app and send it to the iDrive, saves you the step of typing it in.

[BMWMico]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

If you have recent BMW made before 07/2016, then you have the EVO ID4, then to go to ID5 this is just a firmware upgrade. But you won't be able to get Apple Carplay and BMW Apps unless your ID4 unit is 1st virginised.
To get internet services you need an ATM too (Advanced Telematic Module), this is mandatory on the newer units.

I don't think this is correct, because the iDrive controller is different - different buttons.

[mbfanos]

Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose

I have Car Play in my '16 Honda Civic Coupe (a very nice car by the way), and I hate it. It gets in the way all the time and doesn't support Waze.

For example, say I want to stream music from TuneIn. I can do it with Bluetooth, but I want to keep my iPhone charged so I plug it in. As soon as I do so, Car Play "takes over" from the native Honda headunit and I'm stuck with the clunky GUI and at best semi-responsive interface.

I much, much prefer the interface on my '14 BMW using the BMW connected app or the native Honda interface.

I was one that really wanted Car Play, and I'm so turned off by it now that I'd love to be able to disable it.

My experience with Carplay on other cars as well. I just hate it LOL