[emtrey]

To each his own.

If the Boxster does not blow you away (forget the cost differential since you said you can swing it) why bother.

2 seaters are compromised cars for daily drivers. Rear vision w/ top up is not good, interior more cramped, and on and on.

2 seat Porsches are all about the driving experience. If you are not "feeling it" get the BMW. But why the hybrid ? That may be the least agile of the the F30s. Try a sport line or M sport.

I have an f30 and an 06 911 S. Do not drive the Porsche on a daily basis and maybe it would get tiresome "every day" BUT the sportline 335i can't even touch the Porsche for driving pleasure. ( and I have driven the new Boxster S and it a great handling car).

Some people are dogging the F30 for not being as much an "ultimate driving machine" as prior generations and you find the hybrid' handling better than a mid engine Boxster. You will tire of the Porsche--forget it.

[speed12sil]

Want to ask the OP this. Where did you go to get price that's near invoice for the BMW? I was just at Stevens Creek BMW, and it seems all of their new cars are now with the "True Price", which is another way of saying no negotiating the price. Not sure if this is policy that's adopted nation-wide or just that dealer so...

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by speed12sil

Want to ask the OP this. Where did you go to get price that's near invoice for the BMW? I was just at Stevens Creek BMW, and it seems all of their new cars are now with the "True Price", which is another way of saying no negotiating the price. Not sure if this is policy that's adopted nation-wide or just that dealer so...

lol. i would have been on my way out the door before the ca could explain what that meant lol.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by speed12sil

Want to ask the OP this. Where did you go to get price that's near invoice for the BMW? I was just at Stevens Creek BMW, and it seems all of their new cars are now with the "True Price", which is another way of saying no negotiating the price. Not sure if this is policy that's adopted nation-wide or just that dealer so...

I think Edmunds and some other sites online can tell you the true invoice price of a car which would tell you if they really have a "True Price" or are simply trying to screw you.

I have a very close relationship with my CA and have bought many cars from her so now I go in, tell her what I'm looking at and she just gives me their lowest price right off the bat. I leased a 335is last week and before I got it, I took the numbers she gave me and showed it to two other dealers and both of them told me I would never actually get the car for that much...well, jokes on them.

My point with this is I can't really help you with how to negotiate, but I will tell you that BMW and Mercedes are trying to outsell each other by the end of this year and both of them are doing whatever it takes to move cars off their lots. Now is a great time to get a good deal, getting a BMW at invoice is easy right now.

[speed12sil]

Originally Posted by Remonster

I think Edmunds and some other sites online can tell you the true invoice price of a car which would tell you if they really have a "True Price" or are simply trying to screw you.

I have a very close relationship with my CA and have bought many cars from her so now I go in, tell her what I'm looking at and she just gives me their lowest price right off the bat. I leased a 335is last week and before I got it, I took the numbers she gave me and showed it to two other dealers and both of them told me I would never actually get the car for that much...well, jokes on them.

My point with this is I can't really help you with how to negotiate, but I will tell you that BMW and Mercedes are trying to outsell each other by the end of this year and both of them are doing whatever it takes to move cars off their lots. Now is a great time to get a good deal, getting a BMW at invoice is easy right now.

I'm actually quite informed of the invoice price of different BMWs/Benz etc. My question was whether it's standard practice at BMW dealers to not allow any negotiating now, much like Scion's no haggling policy. You did answer my question with your purchase story last week so I'm partially relieved that it's just that dealership that's doing this.

[Remonster]

I just meant the dealer might have a fake "true price" or their "true price" might actually be the real invoice, so I just wanted to be sure you knew which was going on. I'm lucky enough to have three dealers very close to me so I can easily cross-shop their prices so if you have more than one dealer near you, that's what I'd recommend doing.

[ocso1606]

After driving my 335i through the mountains of Vermont an New Hampshire for 600 HARD miles, I would still keep it over the Porsche. I love it

[speed12sil]

Originally Posted by Remonster

I just meant the dealer might have a fake "true price" or their "true price" might actually be the real invoice, so I just wanted to be sure you knew which was going on. I'm lucky enough to have three dealers very close to me so I can easily cross-shop their prices so if you have more than one dealer near you, that's what I'd recommend doing.

Okay got it. That dealership actually has a large piece of thick stock paper hanging under the rear-view mirror of each car with "True Price" printed on top, and the price written using sharpie. Now that I read my previous comments, I realized that they seemed pretty confusing. Sorry about that.

[vaxpilot]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Sorry but that's just not true. You should read the reviews of the 2013 Boxster. Many auto pundits are saying it's the best model that Porsche currently offers and handles even better than a 911. Also, I recently asked racecar driver Tommy Kendall what he thinks is the best handling production car there is and he said the mid-engined Porsche Boxster. The new Boxster is better than the old Cayman and the new Cayman isn't here yet.

The 991 was voted motor trends best driving car. Having the good fortune to drive one a few months ago I couldn't agree more. Money aside, it's the better comparison I.e four seats, sport coupe, gt touring machine.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by AZ330FZL

Well best of luck with the decision. I wish we had roads that looked like that here in Phoenix. Everything out here is straight and borring. I miss So Cal roads. Hope you enjoy your test drive, looks like you will from the picture of your route.

Drive the Coranado Highway in AZ. It's awesome. Good twisties.

[gator15]

Originally Posted by Remonster

No, actually you're laughable. A car with its engine in the middle will inherently be more nimble than a rear-engined car. What's my source? I had a 2006 Carrera S for 9 months. I loved that car, it would literally take my breath away on my favorite twisty roads but guess what, I drove a Cayman S and was 100% confident that it is the superior car. It turns in much more sharply, has a lower polar moment of inertia and, while it lacks a little grip on corner-exit compared to the 911, it also doesn't have that big weight hanging off the back which can turn itself from an asset into a liability in a big hurry. I once came around a corner in the 911 and hit a small patch of dirt on the road (right after the apex, I hadn't seen it so I was on the throttle) and the rear end slipped out and before I knew it I was almost at full opposite-lock. A Cayman would be much less of a handful in that same situation. The problem with the 911 is that engine out back can be big trouble for an amateur driver, so in order to improve stability Porsche had to stuff massive rear tires (mine had 305s) and set up the front end to break away fairly early so an amateur will end up with understeer before the rear end steps out so you end up with a car that's only really great at exiting corners and extremely great under braking. Driving a 911 involves a significant recalibration of your driving style to work around its low front-end grip and overly stable rear, but driving a Cayman / Boxster is just like driving a really great go-kart with literally zero flaws in the way it goes through corners. I'd be willing to bet that that's why the OP was a little underwhelmed by the Boxster, actually, it's just so competent that you never feel like you're working it very hard.

Obviously the best handling Porsches are the GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, etc. but when we're comparing apples to apples, the Cayman is a superior platform than a 911 from a handling standpoint and especially when it comes to nimbleness which is specifically what you mentioned.

Like you I had a 2006 997. I got my new 991 in March and wow, the two cars are totally different. If you haven't driven one yet (especially on the track), I highly encourage you to. The 991 blows any other Porsche out of the water (except for the new Boxster, which I haven't driven yet, but have heard it is amazing). I have driven a Cayman S and it doesn't come close to the 991. If the Boxster is anything like my 991, there really is no comparison between it and the 3-series. However, I don't think there is supposed to be, the two cars aren't competitors. For the OP, you have to figure out what best suits your lifestyle. For me, a two-seater doesn't work for my daily driver (which is why I have my F30). If it works for you, then get the Boxster, it sounds like it is the car your prefer. The 3-series isn't supposed to be as fun as the Boxster, it is a sports sedan first and foremost. Like you found, the two cars are probably not too far apart in terms of fun, but the Porsche will always win in that comparison.

I do prefer dealing with BMW more than Porsche. Porsche seems to be going through some growing pains right now as a company. If they didn't make such great cars, I probably would never buy another. Alas, we just ordered a Cayenne diesel a few weeks ago (for my spouse). BMW excels in making customers happy and you truly feel appreciated. With my experience, Porsche has not, especially with my 991 which was delivered with options missing (my Porsche dealers have been excellent though). That would be my only word of caution, be prepared to deal with a mess if you ever have to work with Porsche beyond the dealership level.

[BMWCali]

Originally Posted by gator15

I do prefer dealing with BMW more than Porsche. Porsche seems to be going through some growing pains right now as a company. If they didn't make such great cars, I probably would never buy another. Alas, we just ordered a Cayenne diesel a few weeks ago (for my spouse). BMW excels in making customers happy and you truly feel appreciated.

Totally agree. BMW has better people. Porsche is *extremely* age-ist. I walked into a Porsche dealer to take a test drive and not a single salesman was willing to help me. They all said they were busy. I walked over to one salesman's desk and he said "I'm sorry, I can't help you because I'm with someone right now." I looked left and right and forward and back and sat around for 10 minutes and he wasn't with ANYONE. WTF???

Then, he finally said "OK, let's go for a test drive" and upon merging onto the highway I passed a car and he didn't like it. He goes "I'm not happy! I'm not happy! You endangered our lives." I couldn't believe he would say something like that to a customer. He just assumes that I am young and don't know how to drive, despite the fact that I haven't had an accident (or speeding ticket) in 6 years and have taken half a dozen high performance driving schools.

Even someone high up at Porsche Cars North America warned me that I would probably run into the age-ist problem at dealerships and to drop his name if necessary.

Those who work at Porsche certainly have a massive ego problem, if you ask me. BMW cares a lot more and does not discriminate like that.

I've decided what I'm going to do:

If I can get approved by Porsche FS for a Boxster S, I'm going to get that. If not, I'll get the BMW 335i as I know I can get approved by BMW. Makes the choice easy.

I've decided against the ActiveHybrid 3 (and the 335i instead) for one reason only: you cannot turn off the auto stop/start function (or in this case, the switch to electric from gas). That was a problem when you need immediate power because if you're driving in electric only mode and punch the throttle, the gas engine takes about 0.5 seconds or so to click on and there's a noticeable lag. You feel the electric motor propel you forward, then it slightly jerks back as the gas engine is starting up. That's ONLY an issue when you're going under 20MPH or so and the electric motor is on and you punch the throttle, but it was a big enough issue for me not to get it because it pretty much reduces its effective 0-60 time from 5.2 seconds to something much closer to 6 seconds. The only way I see that one could achieve a 5.2 second 0-60 time with the car is by coming to a fast stop while the gas engine is running, and then quickly taking off again before electric mode kicks back on. Even with the car in Sport+, the electric mode will still kick in so you can't disable the electric driving by using Sport+ or by any other button as the auto stop/start button above the start engine button is removed in the AH3.

[The X Men]

Must be a tough job being a high performance car salesman, everybody wants to take the salesman on a death ride during the test drive to test out the car. Those guys must have good life insurance policies

[pmc123]

How is the highway/road noise on the 2013 boxster? It's supposedly much improved.

my boss's older boxster is so loud that you have to shout to have a conversation on the highway.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Must be a tough job being a high performance car salesman, everybody wants to take the salesman on a death ride during the test drive to test out the car. Those guys must have good life insurance policies

there was once a time when you went to south coast mitsu and the salesman would take YOU on a four wheel drift entering the highway. LOL.

but how you gonna compare a porsche's handling against a 3 series sedan? i don't care what model porsche it is. take it to the track and you'll def feel it...now if you are talking m3, different story perhaps (vs boxster).