[RichardM]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

That suggests a really small amount, but a fraction could mean anything from 1/10 to 9/10ths!!! Care to share?

Well, well under half but I was made to promise not to post the price!

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

I'll be posting some further info on the merits of different tuning methods shortly

Here you go...http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...4#post16782764

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

Here you go...http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...4#post16782764

Thanks for the post - but if you want some honest feedback... it's too much like an ad for ACS.

[Lorcan]

Is IS an ad for ACS, that's why it's in the "vendors classified" section.

I'm happy to discuss the pros and cons of each though...

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by pdk42

Thanks for the post - but if you want some honest feedback... it's too much like an ad for ACS.

Can't see anything wrong with it, the thread in the link is clearly within Classifieds/ sponsors section.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

Is IS an ad for ACS, that's why it's in the "vendors classified" section.

I'm happy to discuss the pros and cons of each though...

Ah, OK. Hadn't noticed what forum it was in. I just clicked the link!

[SteveChester]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

I just spoke to Rob @ DMS as we resell their remaps (mostly for older cars out of warranty). He confirmed the E90 results, but that's not why I called. The F30 diesel remap is 950+vat and they need the ECU for a couple of days. It's not a straightforward remap and they do something that stops any later encryption changes installed at service updates from locking them out (as happened with the M5). You'd still have to get the remap re-installed though, as it will be overwritten by the update.

Is anybody going to get this done?

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

Is anybody going to get this done?

Not me. I will choose one of the tuning box options I think

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

Is anybody going to get this done?

I'm sort of considering it, but I sent some questions to DMS and they haven't replied. Not too inspiring...

[Lorcan]

I re-sell DMS so might be able to help with the questions...

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Not me. I will choose one of the tuning box options I think

From what I understand about tuning boxes, I'm really not convinced it's a good idea. They work by fooling the ECU that some input parameter is lower/higher than it actually is (e.g. air mass, fuel flow, turbo boost). The worst of them can cause the ECU to go into limp mode. I'd be cautious that this sort of tinkering can possibly deliver reliable and safe performance gains.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

I re-sell DMS so might be able to help with the questions...

OK, so here's the jist of it. I've recently acquired a 330d xdrive. I'm very happy with the performance but I'm finding engine refinement a bit of an issue. The problem is clatter under light throttle in the 1200-1800 rpm range. I'm assuming this is detonation related. So, I sent a query to DMS asking if this might be fixable with a remap. I'm aware that the xdrive engine is mapped to deliver max torque lower in the rev range than the sdrive and I'm wondering if this is the root of the problem. Logic tells me more torque must mean more fuel which must mean more detonation (but I'm a strict amateur so what do I know!). Anyhow, Tony at DMS replied that his remap would fix all that and give me more power. I sent him this reply:

Thank for you reply. It sounds positive, but I have a few questions (well, quite a few actually!):

- What is the physical process of re-mapping? Is it just a software update via the OBD, or is there a need to connect directly to the EEPROM? Is there any neeed to modify any of the hardware?

- What does the remap do in more technical terms? Is it more boost, more fueling, changed injection profile, ...?

- How can you be sure that the remap will improve the clatter?

- Are there any downsides to the re-map - e.g. more smoke, poorer fuel efficiency?

- How well tested is the map? How many vehicles have you done?

- How does the map work with the car's driving modes (eco, sport, normal)?

- Does the remap change the torque distribution against RPM?

- Do you do the same remap for xdrive and std RWD cars?

- How do you know that the remap is undetectable? I'm obviously concerned about any get-out BMW would have on warranty should there ever be a problem.

- Finally (!), do you offer any sort of guarantee should I be unhappy with the remap? A grand is a lot to spend if it doesn't fix the problem. And just to reiterate - this isn't about more power for me - it's about engine refinement.

Thanks,

No reply as yet.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by pdk42

From what I understand about tuning boxes, I'm really not convinced it's a good idea. They work by fooling the ECU that some input parameter is lower/higher than it actually is (e.g. air mass, fuel flow, turbo boost). The worst of them can cause the ECU to go into limp mode. I'd be cautious that this sort of tinkering can possibly deliver reliable and safe performance gains.

That's how the cheap ones work. The good ones work by monitoring the inputs and adjusting the fuelling and boost control independently of the ECU. And they come with up to a 3 year warranty on the product itself AND the engine/drivetrain, just in case a tuning-related fault appears.

One thing I left off the ad in the vendors forum. You can't take a remap off and sell it to someone else. Or move it to your next car even if it has the same engine. You can with an ACS upgrade.

/endofsalespitch

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by pdk42

From what I understand about tuning boxes, I'm really not convinced it's a good idea. They work by fooling the ECU that some input parameter is lower/higher than it actually is (e.g. air mass, fuel flow, turbo boost). The worst of them can cause the ECU to go into limp mode. I'd be cautious that this sort of tinkering can possibly deliver reliable and safe performance gains.

I'm not planning on getting the worst of them! Essentially they all work much the same way, but the more expensive ones, like the ACS one seem to take more inputs.
Interestingly, in an article provided to me by Lorcan, which was a German review of them, a few of them did remarkably well actually. The main thing that marked down the Racechip one, for example, was just the lack of TUV certification. Given its a sixth the price then I can live with that.
At £400 I could get the superchips one, and it gives more modest gains than the ACS one or the DMS remap, but that should reduce the risk of issues. And it am be completely removed in 10 mins.

I'm really not sure any remap is the right option for resolving your clatter. I think you need to be speaking to BMW about this.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by pdk42

OK, so here's the jist of it. I've recently acquired a 330d xdrive. I'm very happy with the performance but I'm finding engine refinement a bit of an issue. The problem is clatter under light throttle in the 1200-1800 rpm range. I'm assuming this is detonation related. So, I sent a query to DMS asking if this might be fixable with a remap. I'm aware that the xdrive engine is mapped to deliver max torque lower in the rev range than the sdrive and I'm wondering if this is the root of the problem. Logic tells me more torque must mean more fuel which must mean more detonation (but I'm a strict amateur so what do I know!). Anyhow, Tony at DMS replied that his remap would fix all that and give me more power. I sent him this reply

No reply as yet.

Blimey, that's a big old list, and one best directed to Tony or Rob in a phone call I think. Good luck!

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I'm really not sure any remap is the right option for resolving your clatter. I think you need to be speaking to BMW about this.

You might be right. My suspicion though is that the dealers will only say "it's normal". In fact, I'm wondering if I'm just being over sensitive to it. I didn't really notice it in the two test drives I did, but now I'm driving the car daily, I'm constantly sensitive to the noise. I had an F11 530d and although it exhibited some of the same characteristics it was at a lower level and didn't bother me so much. Maybe the 5 just had more soundproofing.

I could do with driving (or just sitting in) another f30/31 330d xdrive to do some comparison. Is there anyone in the Warwickshire area who might be up for this?

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by pdk42

You might be right. My suspicion though is that the dealers will only say "it's normal". In fact, I'm wondering if I'm just being over sensitive to it. I didn't really notice it in the two test drives I did, but now I'm driving the car daily, I'm constantly sensitive to the noise. I had an F11 530d and although it exhibited some of the same characteristics it was at a lower level and didn't bother me so much. Maybe the 5 just had more soundproofing.

I could do with driving (or just sitting in) another f30/31 330d xdrive to do some comparison. Is there anyone in the Warwickshire area who might be up for this?

I suspect you've just got used to the refinement found in a 5 series. A 320d is a terrible car for diesel clatter, yet the 520d has the same engine and is more refined than any 3 series diesel in the lower end of the rev range.
Where I think the 6 pot engine in a 3 series really makes a difference is that the sound of revving it hard isn't painful. But then again a 530d is in a different league for smoothness.

If I could change anything about a 3 series it would be this. I've tried adding some sound deadening in the bonnet, but it didn't make much difference. From further research it really needs to be in the bulkhead and the floorpan (a lot of engine noise is reflected up from the road and through the floor).

Hopefully you can have a go in another car.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I suspect you've just got used to the refinement found in a 5 series. A 320d is a terrible car for diesel clatter, yet the 520d has the same engine and is more refined than any 3 series diesel in the lower end of the rev range.
Where I think the 6 pot engine in a 3 series really makes a difference is that the sound of revving it hard isn't painful. But then again a 530d is in a different league for smoothness.

If I could change anything about a 3 series it would be this. I've tried adding some sound deadening in the bonnet, but it didn't make much difference. From further research it really needs to be in the bulkhead and the floorpan (a lot of engine noise is reflected up from the road and through the floor).

Hopefully you can have a go in another car.

Thank you for your post. I agree about the 3 sounding good under acceleration. But it's the clatter under light load when pootling about town that's irritating (maybe this is why I didn't notice it on the test drive - who pootles about in those circumstances!). In fact, I drove my wife's lowly Golf 1.4 TSI tonight which is really buttery smooth for a car in its class. It made it a pleasure zipping around town.

I suspect my problem with the 3 is the comparison to the 5. The issue is probably better soundproofing in the 5. I guess I'll learn to live with it - in fact (for other reasons), I'm looking at a Gladen speaker and Amp upgrade, so that'll help . Strange that BMW didn't see fit to make it as smooth as possible by installing sufficient soundproofing. What's the cost of more soundproofing at manufacturing time - £10?

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by pdk42

Thank you for your post. I agree about the 3 sounding good under acceleration. But it's the clatter under light load when pootling about town that's irritating. In fact, I drove my wife's lowly Golf 1.4 TSI tonight which is really buttery smooth for a car in its class. It made it a pleasure zipping around town.

I suspect my problem with the 3 is the comparison to the 5. the issue is almost certainly better soundproofing in the 5. I guess I'll learn to live with it - in fact (for other reasons), I'm looking at a Gladen speaker and Amp upgrade, so that'll help . Strange that BMW didn't see fit to make it as smooth as possible by installing sufficient soundproofing. What's the cost of more soundproofing at manufacturing time - £10?

Same here when I drive the Z4! But then I drive the 335d everywhere in maximum attack and get 33mpg. Drive the Z4 or any other 6 cylinder petrol in a similar manner and I'd struggle to beat 25mpg and I'd still be slower!. I can't justify that over 30k miles a year either. If I did less then I'd possibly prefer the 335i.

I've moaned about the sound deadening issue on here too. Even if they made additional sound deadening an optional extra then I'd be happy, as it's much easier to do at build, than it is aftermarket.

I know how I'd do it, and it wouldn't be particularly expensive for the materials, but it involves taking the front seats and carpet up, and I just don't have time, space or facilities to do so.

When I swap to my winter wheels I'm going to investigate the possibility of putting sound deadening under the wheel arch liners to reduce road noise!

[SteveChester]

Originally Posted by pdk42

I'm sort of considering it, but I sent some questions to DMS and they haven't replied. Not too inspiring...

Anybody contact Imran@Evolve to see if he has cracked it?

[kriszty]

in Belgium ( i,m from Holland ) a tuning company claimed they can tune the F30 diesels on the ECU ( no box !! )

http://www.br-performance.be/nl-be/n...s/321-bmw-faq/

it,s written in dutch, but they say they can program the New F3* BMW on ECU