01-01-2014, 04:15 PM | #45 | |
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Mike, thanks for chiming in on this thread. Could we take a discussion of the JBD over to the N47 forum? I think that would be more appropriate. I'll be starting a thread over there called something like, "Tuning Boxes for the N47d20: BMS' JBD vs. the Germans". I'll copy and paste the email posted on this thread that I received from Hartge and you can compare how the JBD works to theirs. Thanks a lot! FYI, I'm open to the JBD I just need to find out more about it.
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01-02-2014, 07:54 AM | #46 |
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Mike, here is the thread on the N47 forum: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=930208
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01-02-2014, 08:50 AM | #47 | |
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01-02-2014, 02:35 PM | #48 |
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i dont care if tuning god made this. $1500 for a non-custom tune is just out right idiotic. its the people who purchase thesr ridiculus products that drive up the ridiculus german aftermarket prices.
for 5~600 you can get a nice dyno ecu tune with second map (e85) on most domestic or japanese cars. And here are people saying its fair price just becaUse they are reputable? their profit margin must be 80percent or more. |
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01-02-2014, 04:34 PM | #49 | |
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The question is, do you really get what you pay for when you pay $1500 for a tuning box ($4500 from AC Schnitzer, but they offer a Dinan-type warranty on the engine). If we're talking BMS's JBD unit for comparison, you pay $400, but you get $400 worth of electronics. It's worth the money, sure, but that doesn't mean it's as good as it gets. If you look at the schematic for the installation of a Kelleners Sport, Hartge, etc. box you'll see that you're hooked up individually to each of the injectors and the exhaust temperature sensor (and the throttle pedal with Hartge). That's a hell of a lot more information coming and going between the box and the engine than the simple CR pressure sensor and boost sensor plug you get with the JBD. In my book the more complex German plug-n-play produces a safer, smoother, and more efficient increase in engine output and one that is easier on the DPF and the environment because of more efficient combustion. Less information = more stress on engine parts. It's not just about reputation, it's about technology. I've seen a lot of brand loyalty to BMS, which is probably justified for the gasser piggybacks, but not for the JBD. BMS has put a lot of R&D into their gas engine boxes but very little into the JBD--which was created years ago for several different 2005+ engines and STILL is recommended for use with the new 2014 N47d20 tune. The German tuners spend their R&D money on producing specific boxes for specific engines and their OE tunes. Old & generic tuning technology = more stress on engine parts. I'll say it again, you get what you pay for.
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01-02-2014, 04:53 PM | #50 | |
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It seems you've convinced yourself that more sensors on the diesel motor mean a better tune. The first JBD made had 4 connections & 3 extra wires to connect/solder but through R&D they reduced it all down to a single sensor. A few HP were left on the table but overall reliability and ease of install/removal went up. So that was the design they moved forward with. My advice would be to try both tunes out and keep the one that works best for your particular needs and budget. Mike |
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01-02-2014, 05:22 PM | #51 |
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Very good reply and thanks for being so patient with me.
I guess the ultimate question might be: Given that the JBD (why are we still talking about diesel tuners on this forum?) has the track record you mention, does the extra $1220 for the Hartge, Kelleners, etc. really provide that much more added value? Who knows?--that's a tough metric. But, if your wallet permits, and you need to purchase some additional piece of mind, the German tuning boxes are an option. As you say, I'm convinced that these German boxes contain better technology. I just wish I could know for sure!--and I wish the German professionals were here to provide some more light on this story from their end. Thanks again Mike, and one thing I do know for sure from this conversation is that BMS is one classy company.
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