[David70]

Honda does really well on reliability but after that is there any engine they produce today that is close to the top of any category or anything an enthusiast would specifically seek out? Don't push any envelopes and your problems will be limited?

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by David70

but after that is there any engine they produce today that is close to the top of any category or anything an enthusiast would specifically seek out? Don't push any envelopes and your problems will be limited?

I think the new civic type R is pretty much an enthusiasts' car
It beats the m3 on a track

I know 2 guys with s2000's; one who blew his engine (oil starvation) but the other one use it as its daily drive and has done over 300k miles with no issues. So it can be very reliable. Maybe it needs an oil level sensor in the sump (I dont believe it has one?) like most bmw's have

[stefan]

Hmm.. I have owned more BMWs than many on this forum. I can tell you unequivocally that if I did not have friends who owned a shop, I would not own a used BMW. They are not reliable and the owners are even less reliable. In order to buy a good used BMW, they had to have been maintained by the PO. Which they nearly never are. Even following the factor oil change schedule is stupid. So that's what you're inheriting 9 times out of 10.

[David70]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I think the new civic type R is pretty much an enthusiasts' car
It beats the m3 on a track

I know 2 guys with s2000's; one who blew his engine (oil starvation) but the other one use it as its daily drive and has done over 300k miles with no issues. So it can be very reliable. Maybe it needs an oil level sensor in the sump (I dont believe it has one?) like most bmw's have

For some reason I am only considering cars I can buy and I am not interested in moving to Europe so I can buy a Honda Civic.

[GuidoK]

The new civic type R wont come to the usa?
are you sure?

I know you dont get a lot of fast hatchbacks like the megane trophy and leon cupra, but honda has a huge dealer network in the US
Maybe in a few months or so? It's very new now.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by doogee

But at the end of the day, you're still driving a slow Honda.

At the end of the day you are driving a Honda that use to beat Ferrari for like 12 years in its own game of race engines with high redline and 123.5hp per 1 liter. S2000 feels more solid to drive then M3 that I used to have. That's why many buy them over and over again, and many Porsche owners have 1 for track use.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I think the new civic type R is pretty much an enthusiasts' car
It beats the m3 on a track

I know 2 guys with s2000's; one who blew his engine (oil starvation) but the other one use it as its daily drive and has done over 300k miles with no issues. So it can be very reliable. Maybe it needs an oil level sensor in the sump (I dont believe it has one?) like most bmw's have

Oil starvations in S2000 are due to human error, need to check dipstick and read it correctly. Older cars used to burn some oil on top of that. On my 2006 I didn't even check oil for 7k miles until I changed it. Many older Japs have oil light that's usually called a "death light", it could light up when it's already too late. BMWs now days lack dipsticks but have oil light that warns you when u need 1qt added.

Now Cayman engines for example do have oil starvation problems due to design flaw, you cant even track them in stock form (at least pre-2009 models).

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I think the new civic type R is pretty much an enthusiasts' car
It beats the m3 on a track

I know 2 guys with s2000's; one who blew his engine (oil starvation) but the other one use it as its daily drive and has done over 300k miles with no issues. So it can be very reliable. Maybe it needs an oil level sensor in the sump (I dont believe it has one?) like most bmw's have

I also know a guy who blew an S200 engine, 2 guys that blew STI stock engines that Subaru refused to fix under warranty and countless Evos with engine failures.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Oil starvations in S2000 are due to human error, need to check dipstick and read it correctly. Older cars used to burn some oil on top of that.

Sure its human error not to check engine oil (although burn some oil is an engineering problem). But my point is that bmw's have had an oil level sender unit for quite some time now, alerting the driver that some oil is needed. That could have saved his engine.

Just as that lots of bmw's have coolant level sensors. It alerts the driver that the coolant level is dropping and that his coolant reservoir is probably cracked (known bmw problem)
But it saves overheating your engine so it has some use.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Sure its human error not to check engine oil (although burn some oil is an engineering problem). But my point is that bmw's have had an oil level sender unit for quite some time now, alerting the driver that some oil is needed. That could have saved his engine.

Yeah oil level alerting didn't make it to most Jap or Korean cars until later. Oil burning is very common on all cars, Germans are notorious for that (maybe due to turbos) That's why both Audi and BMW state that 1qt per 1k miles is normal burning.....which is BS.

AP1 S2000s are sensitive to oil brand and viscosity, with ton of miles on them now they see oil burning but its still no where close to Audis. AP2s don't have any burning at all. There is a dipstick issue as well, some read it wrong and end up with less oil then needed + burning and you have oil starvation on track.

Ps. With S2k being relatively cheap car (although some stock ones cost as much as 2014+ M235i lol) many ricers buying and mod the hell out of them which results in blown engines. (Even cold air intake can cause hydrolock on s2k) It's 100% impossible to blow a stock S2k motor and even a properly tuned boosted one.

[max_330i]

I think the article makes some fair points about the M Power engines specifically. The rod bearing failures mentioned are serious issues and owners have reason to be upset.

However, I think the author comes down way too hard on BMW as a whole. I mean, come on-- everybody on this forum knows you can't buy an old, high-mileage, poorly maintained Bimmer and expect to walk away without a repair bill. That's why I think his story about the E39 540i is too anecdotal to be evidence of poor design (he says himself the car was a "$5000, 120K mile Craigslist beater"). These cars will treat you right if you maintain them, but they will empty your wallet pronto if you neglect them.

Even after reading his article, I'm not deterred from buying BMW in the future. I never planned on owning M cars anyway, but I guess I have another reason to avoid them given the catastrophic engine failures he mentioned. As far as non-M cars go-- I will continue to look for clean examples that have been enthusiast owned and properly cared for. That's my .02

[davis449]

While I sometimes I like reading his articles where he tortures himself trying to get those old POS "bargains" running and make the most out of a little money spent, he really is a self-righteous fuck of a car guy. Every article of his is dripping with condescension toward anyone who doesn't possess the ability to or interest in doing a full engine restore or swap in the driveway of their POS house.

Those stupid ass question posts about "Why Buy A 2016 Camry When You Could Have This Fabulous 2002 BMW M5 With 130 Million Miles On It Which Is Probably In Dire Need Of Horrifically Expensive Repair Work Unless You're A Driveway Mechanic Expert, Like Me, With Nothing But Time On Your Hands To Fix It Yourself And Make It Worthwhile?" are retarded.

Jalopnik used to be such a good site until Gawker Media decided to go all libtard crazy and intersperse bleeding vagina Jezebel bullshit and left wing political garbage articles with all the funny car-related blogs. No wonder their best writers are leaving in droves. That place is a sinking ship and the best writers know it.

[AtlasM]

Tavarish is a clickbait troll. His biggest articles are all "you can get this awesome high mileage used formerly-expensive car for the price of this boring new car," but he never says the actual prices in his post. Pay no attention.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by max_330i

I think the article makes some fair points about the M Power engines specifically. The rod bearing failures mentioned are serious issues and owners have reason to be upset.

I think they have to accept that it should be part of a regular maintenance schedule. So they have to pay up the $2k every 60k miles to change them. Once you know, you can take it into account of the TCO. Just like you do with the regular maintenance items.
It's still only 3ct per mile what that would cost.

[max_330i]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I think they have to accept that it should be part of a regular maintenance schedule. So they have to pay up the $2k every 60k miles to change them. Once you know, you can take it into account of the TCO. Just like you do with the regular maintenance items.
It's still only 3ct per mile what that would cost.

I suppose that's fair. Like I said, I think the best BMW's will always be the well-maintained ones, regardless of year or model-- evidently that means extra maintenance for high-performance cars such as Msport.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

At the end of the day you are driving a Honda that use to beat Ferrari for like 12 years in its own game of race engines with high redline and 123.5hp per 1 liter. S2000 feels more solid to drive then M3 that I used to have. That's why many buy them over and over again, and many Porsche owners have 1 for track use.

I don't care how much power it makes per liter, it's still incredibly slow.

Is the engine impressive? Yes.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by doogee

I don't care how much power it makes per liter, it's still incredibly slow.

Is the engine impressive? Yes.

Incredibly slow where and compared to what ? Its about the same as 2016 228i and will rape it on any track. (people here buy 228i vs M235i because its a slightly better track car)

Compared to M235i, yes a 16 year old car with NA 4-cylinder is slow...thats why many FI them today. I didnt want to go with that option, just bought M235i for myself.

edit: i see that u have M3 and 325i, well on technical track it will rape M3, and in a straight line it will rape 325i easy. stock one in near new condition also costs same or more then 2008-2010 M3 by the way.

[BravoJohny33]

Oil leaks would not piss me off if the Indy shops around here did not want 1200 to fix an oil pan leak and 800 to do a VC gasket. Screw them I am just letting it leak.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by doogee

I don't care how much power it makes per liter, it's still incredibly slow.

Context, dude. Context. You should care because when it was released in 2000, it had the most powerful NA engine in the world -- Ferrari included -- relative to displacement. It started a trend that only (mostly) stopped because forced-induction motors became so well managed by ECUs that their disadvantages turned into advantages over high-compression NA motors in power production, emissions, and fuel economy.

Porschephiles see the greatness in droves. I doubt any of those chaps would give a hooey if it were, as you say, 'slow'.

[Eliminator 429]

All Gawker media sucks and should be 100% avoided.

[Doc Oc]

Man stumbled into a Honda forum by accident...

[OutlawX3M]

But meanwhile Honda dealers here in NY have managed to have troubles in F&I departments so your engine will last forever but you probably got raped getting it.