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      10-05-2017, 11:55 AM   #1
jeppe777
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Pwg vs ewg

What is the power difference fbo map 7 between the two?
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      10-05-2017, 06:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeppe777 View Post
What is the power difference fbo map 7 between the two?
Map 7 jb4 with race has 15-20hp difference leave or take a couple in favor of the EWG car due to bigger turbo and exhaust down pipe.

If you are on the fence get an EWG car no doubt.
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      10-06-2017, 11:05 AM   #3
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PWG allows to run more E and seems to have a stronger pump than EWG.
For comparison reasons we had a big Roll-Racing event 40-50mph start
FBO PWG 335xi DinanTurbo Meth(Cooling) and Bootmod3 trapped 121mph

FBO PWG 335 6MT/RWD Bootmod3 STG2 trapped 122mph
FBO EWG 435 AT/RWD EnzoTuned trapped 123mph
both cars were running the around E30 blend
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      10-06-2017, 11:29 AM   #4
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Ok thanks... I was under the impression the difference was substantial.
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      10-06-2017, 11:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeppe777 View Post
Ok thanks... I was under the impression the difference was substantial.
It can be, depends heavily on Driver, Tune, and car.
Some PWG are just weaker than other PWG, and some EWG are stronger than others as well.
Drive both and go with what you feel best with.
Your end goal might be different than anyone's here.
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      10-06-2017, 03:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
PWG allows to run more E and seems to have a stronger pump than EWG.
For comparison reasons we had a big Roll-Racing event 40-50mph start
FBO PWG 335xi DinanTurbo Meth(Cooling) and Bootmod3 trapped 121mph

FBO PWG 335 6MT/RWD Bootmod3 STG2 trapped 122mph
FBO EWG 435 AT/RWD EnzoTuned trapped 123mph
both cars were running the around E30 blend
Why did you forget that mystery bandit that trapped 131.8 MPH its worth mentioning

All good points and at this point PTF has gotten so good at dialing in the PWG cars its not something to overlook if wanting to run E. But for basic bolt ons EWG is the way to go with a slightly bigger turbo. But PWG PS1 is a formidable car once you tune it correctly and can walk away from EWG cars. At $800 bucks for the mod its well worth exploring into the PWG.
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      10-06-2017, 08:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
PWG allows to run more E and seems to have a stronger pump than EWG.
For comparison reasons we had a big Roll-Racing event 40-50mph start
FBO PWG 335xi DinanTurbo Meth(Cooling) and Bootmod3 trapped 121mph

FBO PWG 335 6MT/RWD Bootmod3 STG2 trapped 122mph
FBO EWG 435 AT/RWD EnzoTuned trapped 123mph
both cars were running the around E30 blend
In all fairness the manual cars just arent as fast as the 8at cars, regardless what the dyno says.
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      10-07-2017, 12:23 AM   #8
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Tuned properly, EWG car can hold 10+ psi at 6k rpm on 93OCT from stock hardware on a cold day or with a bigger IC. While PWG holds approximately 3psi less there, translating into a 30whp deficit give or take. However, tuned N55 normally makes peak power at 5200-5500rpm, so the peak number difference would be a little less significant, normally we see 20whp down with PWG.

As for real world acceleration EWG will always walk away because EWG has more useable PUC(power under the curve), which is 4000-6500, than peak number difference indicates.

Even an EWG stock can keep up with PWG on TMAP-only piggyback, but just you just dont just have that push you back to seat feel at down low with stock tune.
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      10-07-2017, 04:27 AM   #9
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i'm getting 0.7 bar @ 6000rpm with pwg turbo. stock is 0.47bar. (10.2 vs 6.8psi), but I agree boost is falling down after 5500rpm quite fast, looking to upgrade to TTH450 turbo, anyone is using this turbo here?

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Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Tuned properly, EWG car can hold 10+ psi at 6k rpm on 93OCT from stock hardware on a cold day or with a bigger IC. While PWG holds approximately 3psi less there, translating into a 30whp deficit give or take. However, tuned N55 normally makes peak power at 5200-5500rpm, so the peak number difference would be a little less significant, normally we see 20whp down with PWG.

As for real world acceleration EWG will always walk away because EWG has more useable PUC(power under the curve), which is 4000-6500, than peak number difference indicates.

Even an EWG stock can keep up with PWG on TMAP-only piggyback, but just you just dont just have that push you back to seat feel at down low with stock tune.
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      10-07-2017, 07:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
i'm getting 0.7 bar @ 6000rpm with pwg turbo. stock is 0.47bar. (10.2 vs 6.8psi), but I agree boost is falling down after 5500rpm quite fast, looking to upgrade to TTH450 turbo, anyone is using this turbo here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Tuned properly, EWG car can hold 10+ psi at 6k rpm on 93OCT from stock hardware on a cold day or with a bigger IC. While PWG holds approximately 3psi less there, translating into a 30whp deficit give or take. However, tuned N55 normally makes peak power at 5200-5500rpm, so the peak number difference would be a little less significant, normally we see 20whp down with PWG.

As for real world acceleration EWG will always walk away because EWG has more useable PUC(power under the curve), which is 4000-6500, than peak number difference indicates.

Even an EWG stock can keep up with PWG on TMAP-only piggyback, but just you just dont just have that push you back to seat feel at down low with stock tune.
A lot of factors other than turbo can dictate how much boost you can see. Backpressure(downpipe), octane(ethanol and meth), cooling(ic, meth), etc. Look closer, I was talking about 10+psi at 6k from EWG stock hardwares on 93AKI(98RON).

I never heard of TTH, I am assuming it’s an European brand. Unfortunately this forum is in big favor of Pure offering. Personally I know TTE(not TTH), a German company, builds good turbo for n55. Google it and check them out.
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      10-09-2017, 10:31 AM   #11
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EWG FTW
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      10-09-2017, 11:52 AM   #12
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new to bmw FI, just picked up a '12 PWG car...

couple of Q:

can someone elaborate why EWG inherently controls
boost better than the PWG equilvalent...?

is this more a DME tuning issue rather than the actual functioning of a different w/g...? or has this more to do with the different spec'd turbos...?

i've just slapped on a PB-stg1 and the additional low/mid tq is noticeable...

i guess above 80mph a EWG car would start to walk ? but i'd have to think with ~340wtq on a PWG car the reverse is happening up until that point....?

how are BEFs making juicy curves on PWG cars...? are they digging deeper into the DME tables...? fueling, valvetronic trickery etc... ;-)
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      10-09-2017, 12:01 PM   #13
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key is not ewg or pwg which is wastegate control. n55 ewg turbocharger has slightly bigger compressor wheel (pwg is 62mm exducer anyone can tell how much mm is ewg?) and slightly wider diameter downpipe. you can install any plug&play turbo with bigger compressor wheel (67mm) and ewg will not catch you with the same mods and stock turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stumppuller View Post
new to bmw FI, just picked up a '12 PWG car...

couple of Q:

can someone elaborate why EWG inherently controls
boost better than the PWG equilvalent...?

is this more a DME tuning issue rather than the actual functioning of a different w/g...? or has this more to do with the different spec'd turbos...?

i've just slapped on a PB-stg1 and the additional low/mid tq is noticeable...

i guess above 80mph a EWG car would start to walk ? but i'd have to think with ~340wtq on a PWG car the reverse is happening up until that point....?

how are BEFs making juicy curves on PWG cars...? are they digging deeper into the DME tables...? fueling, valvetronic trickery etc... ;-)
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      10-09-2017, 02:17 PM   #14
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sounding more and more like the 'reasonable' path for significant power increases on a PWG N55 is to skip the piggyback/meth/PI game and go straight to BEF, upgraded snail and requiste BOs...

am i correct in reading somewhere a 400whp stock fueling limit on N55...?

edit: ive had sh!t experiences with WMI in past and cannot fathom it at this point ;-)

Last edited by valve float; 10-09-2017 at 02:19 PM. Reason: whining...
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      10-09-2017, 03:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumppuller View Post
sounding more and more like the 'reasonable' path for significant power increases on a PWG N55 is to skip the piggyback/meth/PI game and go straight to BEF, upgraded snail and requiste BOs...

am i correct in reading somewhere a 400whp stock fueling limit on N55...?

edit: ive had sh!t experiences with WMI in past and cannot fathom it at this point ;-)
Flash or piggyback, youre still going to need a supplement fuel for big power and atleast a lpfp upgrade.
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      10-09-2017, 04:18 PM   #16
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does the stock system supply enough to max out the PWG at 16psi tapering....?

what about EWG...? touch n go...?
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      10-09-2017, 04:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumppuller View Post
does the stock system supply enough to max out the PWG at 16psi tapering....?

what about EWG...? touch n go...?
Tapering to what? Im fbo pwg e40 jb4 iso. I spike 22 and taper to 13 at 6k. The turbo is the restriction for me not the fuel system. A ps2 will max out the fuel system quick though.
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      10-09-2017, 04:45 PM   #18
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tapering to...? not sure...

i'd imagine lower target on piggy...higher on flash where other factors can be managed to mitigate inefficiencies...host of other things play a part as well...

maybe why PWG car on a flash make 'strong' numbers for the smaller blower...?

still thou....fbo/e40/jb4...22--13...must be turbine-like to 120 or so FTW...
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      10-09-2017, 04:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumppuller View Post
tapering to...? not sure...

i'd imagine lower target on piggy...higher on flash where other factors can be managed to mitigate inefficiencies...host of other things play a part as well...

maybe why PWG car on a flash make 'strong' numbers for the smaller blower...?

still thou....fbo/e40/jb4...22--13...must be turbine-like to 120 or so FTW...
Its a kick in the butt for sure but cranking up the boost on a small turbo has diminishing returns.
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      10-09-2017, 11:39 PM   #20
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@stumppuller
I tried 18psi with 93AKI and my PWG HPFP does NOT like that haha

You can do 16psi redline with 93AKI with max boost around 18psi but that is pushing it. I prefer 16 taper to 14 psi with better timing. Remember that you can kill performance pushing boost too far causing timing retard.

Logs with 18 and 16psi (have 615 logs so pretty sure I can find one that answer any question you have ).

PS: Pure Stg2 turbo, FOL=80
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      10-10-2017, 01:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumppuller View Post
does the stock system supply enough to max out the PWG at 16psi tapering....?

what about EWG...? touch n go...?
Stock fuel system will support that no problem. I am on an upgraded turbo and I have no fueling issues with what I push. 18.5 psi max boost tapering to 13.5 psi to redline.
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      10-10-2017, 08:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
@stumppuller
I tried 18psi with 93AKI and my PWG HPFP does NOT like that haha

You can do 16psi redline with 93AKI with max boost around 18psi but that is pushing it. I prefer 16 taper to 14 psi with better timing. Remember that you can kill performance pushing boost too far causing timing retard.

Logs with 18 and 16psi (have 615 logs so pretty sure I can find one that answer any question you have ).

PS: Pure Stg2 turbo, FOL=80
how are you not having boost tip in issues .
I always get overboost at the begin and some throttle closure.
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