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      02-16-2014, 08:25 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
Thanks to the mods for stitching my redundant thread to this one!!!

Whether one agrees with anything else about break-in, following a mandatory service fluid change (if there is one) would seem pretty important as it may void your warranty otherwise.

How easy is this to tee up in Italy say, if on ED.
I had my break in service done while on ED in Germany. At Autohaus Rolf Horn GmbH – BMW und BMW M Vertragshändler, BMW Motoradwelt (A typically brief German name ), in Euskirchen, a small town about 45 minutes north of the Nurburgring.


Made an appointment over the phone. Make sure the are BMW M certified, because not all BMW dealers in Germany (or wherever your ED takes you), are. Also, schedule ahead of time so they can make sure they have the proper oil available (I had to wait an extra day because I didn't). Drove up from the Ring, did not impress the Two hawt Fraulein's with my Deutsch and walked around town for a few hours while the service was completed. Walked past a Volkswagen dealer selling VW Pickup Trucks the size of F-150s. Weird.

You will have to pay for the service. Show your dealer at home the receipt to get reimbursed.
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      02-16-2014, 08:26 PM   #90
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Does anyone have any solid info on this? I searched the procedure for the s65 and there seemed to be a recommended an oil change/service after the break in period of 1200 miles. From my recollection, there wasn't any such recommended service on the N54. I ask because I am doing ED and will likely have to have this first service done whilst I'm there if there is one.

I know that for many of you, a recommended break in procedure is like a speed limit on an empty highway, but I think the service interval is important. Even without a recommended service I'll still get an early oil change, but might wait until I get back.
There was no recommended oil change after the 1200 mile break-in period for the N54 engine. We did Euro Delivery on my wife's 335is Coupe and I looked into having an oil change done at a BMW dealer in Stuttgart just for my own gratification. There was some communication problems with the dealer and we ended up not having it done, although I changed the oil as soon as the car was redelivered, at about 1800 miles.

The problem was that oil is outrageously priced at dealers in Germany and the dealer actually suggested that we buy the oil elsewhere and they would do the oil change for free. The communication problem occurred when I asked where else do we buy the oil. Apparently the concept of an auto parts store where we could buy oil got lost in the translation.

Many E9x M3 owners have had their oil changed at various dealerships in Germany. I know that there is one located near the Nurburgring that has done this. BMW NA used to reimburse for the break-in oil change if it was performed in Germany by a dealer during ED but to the best of my knowledge, BMW NA no longer does this.

Just to add a note to the whole discussion about break-in oil changes on ///M cars, I really don't understand non-engineers on a forum second-guessing BMW engineers regarding the break-in oil change. It cost less than $100 on a $65K+ car. Anecdotal evidence about not having any serious consequences with a car that has only 30-50K miles on it proves nothing. Penny wise and pound foolish. Why not do it, what are you actually gaining by not doing it? People on this forum argue about the stupidest things IMHO.
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      02-16-2014, 09:49 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by TheDeliverator View Post
Autohaus Rolf Horn GmbH – BMW und BMW M Vertragshändler, BMW Motoradwelt
You should have collected as many business cards as possible to distribute at bars and clubs stateside.

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Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
The problem was that oil is outrageously priced at dealers in Germany and the dealer actually suggested that we buy the oil elsewhere and they would do the oil change for free.
Bring your own lube for when we hand you the bill is what I am hearing.

Since one of the options that I loaded my M4 up with includes the concierge service, I should use them to make the arrangements as I'm sure that lube isn't all I will need trying to call an Italian BMW dealership and demanding service for my M4 in English.

Thanks guys!
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      02-16-2014, 10:32 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
There was no recommended oil change after the 1200 mile break-in period for the N54 engine. We did Euro Delivery on my wife's 335is Coupe and I looked into having an oil change done at a BMW dealer in Stuttgart just for my own gratification. There was some communication problems with the dealer and we ended up not having it done, although I changed the oil as soon as the car was redelivered, at about 1800 miles.
The service bulletin for the e9x M includes a differential oil change as well. That needs to be done at the 1200 mil mark as well... Just getting the oil changed won't suffice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
Many E9x M3 owners have had their oil changed at various dealerships in Germany. I know that there is one located near the Nurburgring that has done this. BMW NA used to reimburse for the break-in oil change if it was performed in Germany by a dealer during ED but to the best of my knowledge, BMW NA no longer does this.
Huh? What!? Mine was reimbursed 4 months ago.

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Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
You should have collected as many business cards as possible to distribute at bars and clubs stateside.
Damn, wish I'd thought of that.
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      02-17-2014, 12:39 AM   #93
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The service bulletin for the e9x M includes a differential oil change as well. That needs to be done at the 1200 mil mark as well... Just getting the oil changed won't suffice.
You must have missed the part where I stated that this was for my wife's 335is Coupe with an N54 engine, not an M3. It was my own desire to do a 1200 mile break-in oil change during our ED.
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      02-17-2014, 01:37 AM   #94
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      06-08-2014, 02:20 PM   #95
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I'm not sure why everyone gets so excited about the manufacturer's recommended break-in period. Do you think all of the cars in the press videos had been driven for 1,200 miles before redline or any of the cars that are at the Performance Delivery Center/M Driving School? I take it easy for a few hundred miles, and then let it rip.
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      06-08-2014, 02:34 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2536 View Post
I'm not sure why everyone gets so excited about the manufacturer's recommended break-in period. Do you think all of the cars in the press videos had been driven for 1,200 miles before redline or any of the cars that are at the Performance Delivery Center/M Driving School? I take it easy for a few hundred miles, and then let it rip.
May be not, but those cars were for press reviews. Simply saying, nobody cared about what would happen to those cars lol. In my case, i pay for this car and want to get a maximum output from it. If you say that few hundred miles is enough, then ok...
I just want to make sure that i won't damage anything, if i start revving the car before 1,200 miles.
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      06-08-2014, 02:38 PM   #97
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Press cars get crushed after their use. These are pre prod cars so why would they bother to break in? I understand Fr1zgum's concern as you'd want to get the most out of this car without causing any issues. On the other hand I believe these engines Already had their break-in from factory.
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      06-08-2014, 02:49 PM   #98
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Why would there be a limit for driving it in a day? Just drive it at different RPM's over the period. DON'T drive it on the Highway at 1 constant engine speed.
This is correct. I worked for an IMSA GTP team in the dyno breaking in motors before the races. Be mindful of varying revs, keeping under 4000 RPM and even after break-in do it gradually. Be mindful of heat cycles too; You will need a few times of letting it cool completely, then bring the motor up to temperature. You can get the rings seated pretty well at operating temperature but they can be tight still during cold situations, so will need a few cold-operating temp cycles through in there so that the rings and bearings seat throughout the entire range. Most cars use different metals in pistons, rings and cylinder liners that have different expansion rates. That is why you raise the RPMs for a short duration bringing up the engine temp, then back off to let the thermal load dissipate, then push it again and repeat.

The one variable here is that I believe BMW is not using steel cylinder liners anymore but some coating on the engine block but you will still experience different thermal rates regardless.

Congrats and enjoy.

It is heartwarming for me as a car guy to see other guys caring about break-in. So many don't anymore, they have bought into the myth of breaking in a car like you stole it. I also recommend you change the break-in oil at 1200 miles as well as M diff and I personally would even do the gearbox at 1200 miles. In the 1M it was specified by BMW engineers but after there was a shortage of the then special MT5 fluid, BMW USA, changed the maintenance schedule and made it optional. The rest of the world where the customer paid for their gearbox fluid, BMW recommended the transmission fluid change.

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      06-08-2014, 03:02 PM   #99
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Quote:
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Press cars get crushed after their use. These are pre prod cars so why would they bother to break in? I understand Fr1zgum's concern as you'd want to get the most out of this car without causing any issues. On the other hand I believe these engines Already had their break-in from factory.
I toured the Munich plant in 2011 and I believe they were testing their engines with compressed air instead of fuel, then they are run on a dyno for a little bit to check some data points.. This is far from break-in and this is supported by BMWs own manuals and instructions that explicitly define a break-in period so I do not understand where this notion came from that the motors are broken in at the factory. I think it was a myth started by salespeople that hammer brand new cars in test drives and made that up to make the customer feel it is OK to hammer a brand, cold-motor car.
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      06-08-2014, 03:07 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2536 View Post
I'm not sure why everyone gets so excited about the manufacturer's recommended break-in period. Do you think all of the cars in the press videos had been driven for 1,200 miles before redline or any of the cars that are at the Performance Delivery Center/M Driving School? I take it easy for a few hundred miles, and then let it rip.
Actually yes, the cars at the M Driving School do go through the 1200 mile break in procedure. I've asked multiple instructors about this in my times at the center and running in to them at various events. The rule for non M cars is to put a few hundred miles on them before entering them in to service, but the rule for the M cars is hard and fast, they must put 1200 miles on them before they are used in a "spirited" manner. Most of these miles are put on the cars by driving them to various events and having them on display instead of being demoed at the events.
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      06-08-2014, 03:43 PM   #101
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Quote:
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I toured the Munich plant in 2011 and I believe they were testing their engines with compressed air instead of fuel, then they are run on a dyno for a little bit to check some data points.. This is far from break-in and this is supported by BMWs own manuals and instructions that explicitly define a break-in period so I do not understand where this notion came from that the motors are broken in at the factory. I think it was a myth started by salespeople that hammer brand new cars in test drives and made that up to make the customer feel it is OK to hammer a brand, cold-motor car.
Who said anything about hammering the engine? Even after break-in, I'm still convinced to proceed at cautious rate after starting the car. Let it warm up gently before pressing the right pedal hard. And this for even over 100k km's.
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      06-08-2014, 03:48 PM   #102
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I take better care of my cars than most anyone. I used to baby my cars like the manual recommends. I'm definitely not sold on the idea of driving it like I stole it, but I do let the car loose after about 500 miles of varied RPMs and heat cycles. My last M3 I had for 15,000 miles. I'm not going to waste 10% of my ownership worrying about what the motor might do at 150,000 miles. This is simply a matter of opinion and choice, I have no facts to back it up.
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      06-08-2014, 04:03 PM   #103
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Actually yes, the cars at the M Driving School do go through the 1200 mile break in procedure. I've asked multiple instructors about this in my times at the center and running in to them at various events. The rule for non M cars is to put a few hundred miles on them before entering them in to service, but the rule for the M cars is hard and fast, they must put 1200 miles on them before they are used in a "spirited" manner. Most of these miles are put on the cars by driving them to various events and having them on display instead of being demoed at the events.
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      06-08-2014, 08:12 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2536 View Post
I'm not sure why everyone gets so excited about the manufacturer's recommended break-in period. Do you think all of the cars in the press videos had been driven for 1,200 miles before redline or any of the cars that are at the Performance Delivery Center/M Driving School? I take it easy for a few hundred miles, and then let it rip.
+1 we're not dealing with a china tea set
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      06-08-2014, 08:28 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2536 View Post
I'm not sure why everyone gets so excited about the manufacturer's recommended break-in period. Do you think all of the cars in the press videos had been driven for 1,200 miles before redline or any of the cars that are at the Performance Delivery Center/M Driving School? I take it easy for a few hundred miles, and then let it rip.
I wouldn't recommend that at all. Whether it will have an impact on the engine or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that if you do decide to break in your car this way and the engine has a malfunction BMW has the right to refuse your warranty and may do so. That would ruin your day for sure.

As well as all of the 'safety' info BMW use the EDR for be under no illusion if you were redlining your car after a few hundred miles and not following their break in procedure and there was an engine failure you'll be paying to fix it yourself.
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      06-08-2014, 08:56 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
This is correct. I worked for an IMSA GTP team in the dyno breaking in motors before the races. Be mindful of varying revs, keeping under 4000 RPM and even after break-in do it gradually. Be mindful of heat cycles too; You will need a few times of letting it cool completely, then bring the motor up to temperature. You can get the rings seated pretty well at operating temperature but they can be tight still during cold situations, so will need a few cold-operating temp cycles through in there so that the rings and bearings seat throughout the entire range. Most cars use different metals in pistons, rings and cylinder liners that have different expansion rates. That is why you raise the RPMs for a short duration bringing up the engine temp, then back off to let the thermal load dissipate, then push it again and repeat.


The one variable here is that I believe BMW is not using steel cylinder liners anymore but some coating on the engine block but you will still experience different thermal rates regardless.

Congrats and enjoy.

It is heartwarming for me as a car guy to see other guys caring about break-in. So many don't anymore, they have bought into the myth of breaking in a car like you stole it. I also recommend you change the break-in oil at 1200 miles as well as M diff and I personally would even do the gearbox at 1200 miles. In the 1M it was specified by BMW engineers but after there was a shortage of the then special MT5 fluid, BMW USA, changed the maintenance schedule and made it optional. The rest of the world where the customer paid for their gearbox fluid, BMW recommended the transmission fluid change.
Agree with the above. Also, this was the norm in the E9x M cars as well. There was a bulletin sent out to ensure that engine, diff, and tranny fluids were all flushed and replaced.
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      06-08-2014, 09:00 PM   #107
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When has this ever happened? I've been around car forums for quite a while and have never seen anyone complaining their warranty wasn't honored due to taking the car to redline under the manufacturer's recommended break-in period.

Again, I have no intention of driving the car ridiculously hard taking it to redline with each shift. I don't see the point in doing this. Especially in this car the way the powercurve looks. I'm just not going to sit there and watch it like a hawk for 1,200 miles.
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      06-08-2014, 09:21 PM   #108
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BMW can not refuse to honor a warranty issue because you did not follow the break in instructions.
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      06-08-2014, 11:30 PM   #109
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Quote:
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As well as all of the 'safety' info BMW use the EDR for be under no illusion if you were redlining your car after a few hundred miles and not following their break in procedure and there was an engine failure you'll be paying to fix it yourself.
It doesn't say that the EDR records RPM. That's not really its purpose. I think the EDR can only be accessed under certain circumstances. But there are other systems that I'm sure do record the RPM for BMW. Because I've heard anecdotal evidence of warranties being denied because of this, but not totally sure about it.


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      06-08-2014, 11:40 PM   #110
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BMW can not refuse to honor a warranty issue because you did not follow the break in instructions.
I think they can deny it for exceeded "red line". The question is, if the manual says not to exceed 5500 RPM, is this the red line?

Break-in is always discussed when a new M3 comes out. I remember it for the E46 M3 and the E9x M3 discussions. There's always the camp that says follow BMWs words to the letter. Then there are those that say the best way to break-in is to run it hard, i.e. drive it like you stole it. However, it seems that the one common denominator always recommended is to vary speed.

You do have to remember that you don't need to break in just the engine. Brakes and other things need breaking in too. So, take that into consideration.


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