[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by topcat87

just to be sure, their the same size and same p/n?
why does bmw have a different m perfomance bbk for 328 and 335

I wonder if there's a list of aftermarket rotors/pads with part numbers that fit the M Sport Brake Option (2NH) (aka M Performance Brake)...

[TBLM235X]

Originally Posted by ronin951

Yes

How is the dust levels in the R4S pads compared to the OEM M Performance pads which produce horrendous levels of brake dust?

[ipilcher]

I have a 2014 335i with the M Sport Brakes option (blue calipers). (It's a GT, but I'm 99% sure that's irrelevant.) After reading through this thread and oceanview's "Brakes buying decision helper," I believe that these brakes are identical to the M Performance Brakes except for the lack of ventilated rotors:

• Front - 370mm x 30mm rotors with 4-piston calipers
• Rear - 345mm x 24mm rotors with 2-piston calipers

Do I have that right?

Assuming that the above is correct, are these the correct street compound pads?

• Front - http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pr...roductID=20226
• Rear - http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pr...roductID=20228

Thanks!

[DVC]

The M Sport upgrade brakes are the same as M Performance brakes, as you indicated.
But regarding the pads, the fronts in your link are correct (#1609), but the rears are not. Porterfield made a new template for M Sport/Performance brakes (thanks to Ronin), and the new part number is #1656

Originally Posted by ipilcher

I have a 2014 335i with the M Sport Brakes option (blue calipers). (It's a GT, but I'm 99% sure that's irrelevant.) After reading through this thread and oceanview's "Brakes buying decision helper," I believe that these brakes are identical to the M Performance Brakes except for the lack of ventilated rotors:

• Front - 370mm x 30mm rotors with 4-piston calipers
• Rear - 345mm x 24mm rotors with 2-piston calipers

Do I have that right?

Assuming that the above is correct, are these the correct street compound pads?

• Front - http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pr...roductID=20226
• Rear - http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pr...roductID=20228

Thanks!

[ipilcher]

Originally Posted by DVC

But regarding the pads, the fronts in your link are correct (#1609), but the rears are not. Porterfield made a new template for M Sport/Performance brakes (thanks to Ronin), and the new part number is #1656

Do you have a link? I can't find that part on their web site.

Thanks!

[DVC]

No link; it's new, so I'm not surprised that they haven't updated the site yet. Best to give them a call...

[topcat87]

can i buy the 335i m perf brake for my 328i will it be a direct fit

[ipilcher]

Just ordered a set of R4-S pads for my 335i GT. Looking forward to spending a more reasonable amount of time cleaning my wheels ... not to mention braking feel better than my wife's Sienna.

[TBLM235X]

Originally Posted by ipilcher

Just ordered a set of R4-S pads for my 335i GT. Looking forward to spending a more reasonable amount of time cleaning my wheels ... not to mention braking feel better than my wife's Sienna.

I will be very interested in your update when you get these installed. I have the M Performance brake upgrade and just can't tolerate the extreme brake dust anymore. I can spend an hour cleaning them and drive 3 feet and they are filthy again. I've sealed the wheels, coated them and nothing really makes them much easier to clean. I would love to know if these pads offer near the same performance with a much reduced dusting. I have asked for feedback on here but never get any responses - I guess that most people who have these brakes are so disgusted with the amount of brake dust that they don't even want to comment!

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by TBLM435

I will be very interested in your update when you get these installed. I have the M Performance brake upgrade and just can't tolerate the extreme brake dust anymore. I can spend an hour cleaning them and drive 3 feet and they are filthy again. I've sealed the wheels, coated them and nothing really makes them much easier to clean. I would love to know if these pads offer near the same performance with a much reduced dusting. I have asked for feedback on here but never get any responses - I guess that most people who have these brakes are so disgusted with the amount of brake dust that they don't even want to comment!

Brake dust is minimal and rinses right off.

[TBLM235X]

Thanks ronin951!

It's nice to finally get some feedback on the dust issue with these pads on the M Performance brakes. Looks like I need to order a set of these pads.

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by DVC

After 2 days on NJMP-Thunderbolt last week, I was a little disappointed with my R4-E pads. No major issues like fading, vibration, etc., but I wasn't wild about the feel. Although to be honest, I think what soured me more than anything was the EXTREMELY loud and persistent squealing.

I bedded the pads in pretty carefully, so I don't think that was the issue... maybe I never got them heated up enough, because Thunderbolt isn't terribly hard on brakes (one ~120-to-~60, and another ~70-to-~45). Also, the ambient temps were pretty low, and the track was wet on the first day.
At any rate, the noise was ridiculous; my friend in another car said he could clearly hear them even from a few cars behind me. Don't even get me started with how they sounded on the street... lol

I called Porterfield and explained my experience to them - they were surprised that they were so loud, and it seems like they are going to work with me to get some sort of replacement. So the question is...
Do I try another race pad - either another R4-E (with the hope that it was just a flawed set that I got) or a standard R4?
Or do I go for the R4-S? @utenigma, @ronin951 - you guys seem to have had good results with the R4-S on the track, which is making me think this is the way to go... the guy at Porterfield cautioned that if the R4-S pads heat up past 1000° they'll cook very quickly... that is, wear into oblivion in a matter of minutes, not fade/fail. The risk of wearing them out on a hot day may be a chance I'm willing to take for a pad that I could actually use on both the street and the track. (I also didn't like having to try to "learn" the pad feel while on track, being that they're so different from my OEM M-Sport pads)
I'll probably be sticking with regular street tires (not R-comps) for the foreseeable future, so maybe full race pads are just overkill for me (?)
But on the other hand, if I get up to Watkins this year (a track I hear is pretty hard on brakes), I don't want to show up with inadequate pads for the job... maybe the R4/R4-E pads wouldn't be so obnoxious if I chamfer the edges a bit (?)

So update after 2 more days at MSR Cresson

My front R4-S's are gone - and when I mean gone, I have backing plates with no material on them

I was in the brakes a LOT harder than at COTA, and they got hot. Never any fade but after the last session I had no appreciable pad material left and the right side was groaning. Didn't bring my OEM pads to the track (fail) and just hyper-miled it the 70 miles home trying not to use the brakes.

Front right rotor's got a good gouge in it now - OEM front's back on till I get a new set in - weighing my options. 4 days of hard use is a little low. The rear's are still over half left.

I'd say the guy you spoke to at Porterfield is right, get them smoking and they disappear

Maybe R4 on the front next time

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by utenigma

So update after 2 more days at MSR Cresson

My front R4-S's are gone - and when I mean gone, I have backing plates with no material on them

I was in the brakes a LOT harder than at COTA, and they got hot. Never any fade but after the last session I had no appreciable pad material left and the right side was groaning. Didn't bring my OEM pads to the track (fail) and just hyper-miled it the 70 miles home trying not to use the brakes.

Front right rotor's got a good gouge in it now - OEM front's back on till I get a new set in - weighing my options. 4 days of hard use is a little low. The rear's are still over half left.

I'd say the guy you spoke to at Porterfield is right, get them smoking and they disappear

Maybe R4 on the front next time

Holy crapola. What tires were you running? I now see R4's in my future too.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by utenigma

So update after 2 more days at MSR Cresson

My front R4-S's are gone - and when I mean gone, I have backing plates with no material on them

I was in the brakes a LOT harder than at COTA, and they got hot. Never any fade but after the last session I had no appreciable pad material left and the right side was groaning. Didn't bring my OEM pads to the track (fail) and just hyper-miled it the 70 miles home trying not to use the brakes.

Front right rotor's got a good gouge in it now - OEM front's back on till I get a new set in - weighing my options. 4 days of hard use is a little low. The rear's are still over half left.

I'd say the guy you spoke to at Porterfield is right, get them smoking and they disappear

Maybe R4 on the front next time

Wow... maybe R4 front, R4-S rear are the way to go on the track after all.

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by ronin951

Holy crapola. What tires were you running? I now see R4's in my future too.

Hankook R-S3's 265/30R18 on Apex Arc8 9"

I can not say enough good things about them. I was SURE I cooked them, I got out my tread depth gauge prepared for the worst...

I started the event with 7/32's
After the event... 7/32

I have no idea how a tire can got that hot, stick that well, and not leave half of itself all over the road

Tpms was showing internal temp on the drivers side at 205F hitting my target pressure of ~40psi

[DVC]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Hankook R-S3's 265/30R18 on Apex Arc8 9"

I can not say enough good things about them. I was SURE I cooked them, I got out my tread depth gauge prepared for the worst...

I started the event with 7/32's
After the event... 7/32

I have no idea how a tire can got that hot, stick that well, and not leave half of itself all over the road

Tpms was showing internal temp on the drivers side at 205F hitting my target pressure of ~40psi

Impressive... you prefer these over the RE-11As?

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Hankook R-S3's 265/30R18 on Apex Arc8 9"

I can not say enough good things about them. I was SURE I cooked them, I got out my tread depth gauge prepared for the worst...

I started the event with 7/32's
After the event... 7/32

I have no idea how a tire can got that hot, stick that well, and not leave half of itself all over the road

Tpms was showing internal temp on the drivers side at 205F hitting my target pressure of ~40psi

I think you are running the stickiest amongst the 3 of us who have tracked them. I was afraid of this happening since the pads seemed to be at their limit when my PS2's were at their ideal-to-overheated temp (190ish IIRC). Not that they started to fade per-se. They just seemed to flatten out. Hard to explain. In any event, bummer it had to happen to you like that.

I go back down to Sebring Mid June. If I take the F30 I'll give the R4's a shot.

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by DVC

Impressive... you prefer these over the RE-11As?

OMG yes, not that the RE11's were by any stretch bad - the R-S3's are just better

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by ronin951

I think you are running the stickiest amongst the 3 of us who have tracked them. I was afraid of this happening since the pads seemed to be at their limit when my PS2's were at their ideal-to-overheated temp (190ish IIRC). Not that they started to fade per-se. They just seemed to flatten out. Hard to explain. In any event, bummer it had to happen to you like that.

I go back down to Sebring Mid June. If I take the F30 I'll give the R4's a shot.

And your car to mine, assuming the same corner exit speed I'm going to add more speed on every straight that I have to scrub off to get back to the same corner entry speed (335 vs 328) - and I weigh a bit more

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ronin951

I think you are running the stickiest amongst the 3 of us who have tracked them. I was afraid of this happening since the pads seemed to be at their limit when my PS2's were at their ideal-to-overheated temp (190ish IIRC). Not that they started to fade per-se. They just seemed to flatten out. Hard to explain. In any event, bummer it had to happen to you like that.

I go back down to Sebring Mid June. If I take the F30 I'll give the R4's a shot.

I ran my last DE on Pilot Sport A/S 3s (and in the wet, mostly); I probably could have used stock pads and not had an issue...
A hot , dry day on sticky tires certainly changes things!

Ronin, are you thinking of running R4s just in the front, or all the way around?

[DVC]

I spoke to my contact at Porterfield again - he said that running R4-S pads in the back with race pads (e.g. R4, ST-43) up front should be fine.. but it will probably result in a bit more nose-dive under hard braking than running race pads front and back.
We also discussed the R4 vs. the ST-43 overall; the long and short of it is, he said they're very similar, but the ST-43 does everything a little better than the R4. Based on that, I think I'm going with a set of ST-43 pads next - I just hope they won't squeal like the R4-E pads did for me!

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by utenigma

And your car to mine, assuming the same corner exit speed I'm going to add more speed on every straight that I have to scrub off to get back to the same corner entry speed (335 vs 328) - and I weigh a bit more

Don't rub it in Flat out, the 328 is umm flat lol