Should the police chase cars?

Broncho · 03-26-2017, 11:55 AM

There was a pretty big incident just down the road from me this weekend where 2 lads stole a Fiesta ST and were chased through a busy road / residential area at pretty high speeds 90+.

This was just after 3pm on Friday afternoon just after the schools finished, they hit a grandmother and 4 year old on their way back from primary school, the little girl died last night from her injuries and the grandmother is critical.

Being so close to home there has been a big social media presence which is to be expected.

Quite surprisingly though alongside the baying for blood for the car thieves is the discussion about whether or not the police should have been pursuing the car at such high speeds.

I'm in 2 minds here because I'd obviously want the scrotes caught but pushing them and the car beyond their limits have resulted in an innocent family being destroyed!

ETA LINK http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/1...d_hit_and_run/

Kal101 · 03-26-2017, 12:00 PM

That's a real tough question and a tough choice. For the police

You've got to balance public safety ( inc the scrotes unfortunately ) with law enforcement

My personal thoughts are that while no car etc is worth a loss of innocent life is that I would lay the blame totally at the feet of the scrotes. Even if the police weren't in pursuit there's nothing to say they wouldn't have driven like that any way.

If it was just the scrotes injured etc not really a big issue in my eyes.

....,,,,..,,.. · 03-26-2017, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobb

The solution is blindingly obvious.

Fit hellfire missiles to police helecopters.

Stolen car? One hellfire missile later, problem solved

Yep I am all for this or rather producing a method to fry / stop a car at distance.

People involved in car chases should just be dragged from the car, shot in back of head.

Simple and saves blocking up the courts.

I think we missed a trick when they stopped hanging people at crossroads (well was bit of a pants soap).

AndyEssex330d · 03-26-2017, 01:53 PM

I can understand the points made, if police don't chase...they have no need to run away, therefore the probability they speed etc is low.

On the other hand...stolen car...used for drugs etc... they may want to drive at that speed because they can and know they won't be caught etc...

Chicken and egg really, obviously awful for the family destroyed, but sometimes no matter what else could or couldn't have been done, it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

The Americans would have shot first...shot the tyres...I would happily have he police do that here.

JustChris · 03-26-2017, 01:58 PM

Tough one really.

Follow at a distance sounds great usually these things explode and about 5 pikey crims al sprint off in opposite directions!

Wills2 · 03-26-2017, 04:00 PM

We can't just let people take what's not theirs and not have a Police force that will take action, the deaths lay right at the feet of the maladjusted scrotes that chose to take what wasn't theirs.

I hope they get charged for causing death due to dangerous driving.

Property rights and the protection of them is one of the fundamentals of a safe society without that you're looking at anarchy.

Danny Fireblade · 03-26-2017, 04:28 PM

Maybe the question is should scrotes that try to evade police by failing to stop be given an immediate and lengthy custodial sentence?

If there is no real punishment for doing it, which really there isn't at this time, then it will continue.

The following officer can always stop the pursuit if feel it is too dangerous, or they will be stood down if it is deemed too dangerous by control.

It is always a judgement call for the officer, as they will have this on their conscience too if something terrible happens, and many a pursuit is terminated as there will always be a next time.

The scrotes have to be lucky every time to get away, police only need to get lucky once.

Craig-SM · 03-26-2017, 04:39 PM

Police are damned if they do. Damned if they don't. Already they are having to fight crime with one arm behind their back.
Personally I would make the pursued liable for costs of their apprehension including police costs for the pursuit and any damage caused. If they can't pay in cash then prison time with hard labour. Alternatively just ram the fuckers off the road as soon as possible, no come back on the police regardless of injuries or death.

JD6 · 03-26-2017, 05:46 PM

It does seem like there must be a technological solution to this, or at least there could be within a decade. Every car could have some black box connected via 4G, and a trigger signal from a central police system either stops the car immediately and locks the doors or does it gradually if it would be safer. Clearly the technology would have to be very secure.

On another matter, when prisoners/criminals sue for some human rights infringement, I would suspend payment of any proceeds until every one of their victims had been contacted and offered the chance to sue them.

Archer-s · 03-27-2017, 01:58 AM

What about using a magnetic GPS tag, hit the car, then just hang back and watch where they are going.

I don't think you can let them off, if they know the police won't chase, then they will do it more, but as many say there has got to be a better way

Jaghave · 03-27-2017, 03:37 AM

Cover the subject pretty well

Watsey · 03-27-2017, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD6

It does seem like there must be a technological solution to this, or at least there could be within a decade. Every car could have some black box connected via 4G, and a trigger signal from a central police system either stops the car immediately and locks the doors or does it gradually if it would be safer. Clearly the technology would have to be very secure.

On another matter, when prisoners/criminals sue for some human rights infringement, I would suspend payment of any proceeds until every one of their victims had been contacted and offered the chance to sue them.

If the day arrives when the police (or perhaps any agency : local council ? social services ? insurer ?) has the power and the capability to brick a vehicle remotely then it will be a sad day indeed. A massive invasion of personal freedoms.

What will the criteria be ? Attempting to evade a police pursuit ? Speeding ? Child safety ? Not indicating ? Looking at someone in a funny way ? Or the classic and vague "reasonable cause" ?

The police are in a difficult position (apprehension versus public safety) but they are permitted to exercise judgement and to cease a pursuit. Maybe a loading factor on any sentence given to those eventually apprehended would provide an incentive : double the original sentence if you didn't stop for police.

Watsey · 03-27-2017, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mssond

What about using a magnetic GPS tag, hit the car, then just hang back and watch where they are going.

I don't think you can let them off, if they know the police won't chase, then they will do it more, but as many say there has got to be a better way

Firing a high speed projectile from a moving vehicle ? Sounds like a recipe for damage to people and property in the background. Plus, would have to be a very strong magnet to resist bouncing off the bodywork, which is increasingly plastic these days (especially bumpers).

Watsey · 03-27-2017, 11:30 AM

Could be a good opportunity for drones here. Roof-mounted drone; police laser-sights the moving vehicle; drone locks-on and then uses visual recognition to track the car plus is programmed to follow the driver if the vehicle is abandoned (visual and infra red tracking).

Drone communicates its GPS coordinates to police, including helicopter.

Drone could even 'buzz' the driver and spray them with smart water.

Not sure how many drones can fly at 100mph though, and yes there are a lot of safety issues with this solution !

JD6 · 03-27-2017, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsey

If the day arrives when the police (or perhaps any agency : local council ? social services ? insurer ?) has the power and the capability to brick a vehicle remotely then it will be a sad day indeed. A massive invasion of personal freedoms.

What will the criteria be ? Attempting to evade a police pursuit ? Speeding ? Child safety ? Not indicating ? Looking at someone in a funny way ? Or the classic and vague "reasonable cause" ?

I would say pretty much the same criteria they use to decide on pursuing a vehicle which fails to stop.

I'm not suggesting that they can stop people for 'Looking at me in a funny way', 'urinating in a public convenience', or 'stepping on the cracks in the pavement' to use another Not the Nine O'Clock News gag

Watsey · 03-27-2017, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsey

If the day arrives when the police (or perhaps any agency : local council ? social services ? insurer ?) has the power and the capability to brick a vehicle remotely then it will be a sad day indeed. A massive invasion of personal freedoms.

What will the criteria be ? Attempting to evade a police pursuit ? Speeding ? Child safety ? Not indicating ? Looking at someone in a funny way ? Or the classic and vague "reasonable cause" ?

I would say pretty much the same criteria they use to decide on pursuing a vehicle which fails to stop.

I'm not suggesting that they can stop people for 'Looking at me in a funny way', 'urinating in a public convenience', or 'stepping on the cracks in the pavement' to use another Not the Nine O'Clock News gag

Classic ! At least one other person got the reference

dazzapb · 03-27-2017, 04:27 PM

The scum should be charged with Manslaughter banged up even if its the police who ultimately hit someone. At the end of the day the scum have a choice - they don't have to drive like that and face the music. RIP little girl.
Digressing - I recall on a US crime show, some gang decided to drive by some kid in the street, said kid shot back (I know - WTF) anyway he killed one of the gang. The surviving gang members were charged with 2nd degree murder of the one that was killed. Good justice.

Abzynthe · 03-28-2017, 03:59 AM

Why dont they use/develop those emp things in 2Fast2Furious?

Billyray911 · 03-28-2017, 04:09 AM

This is an interesting subject and alternatives to pursuit are always being looked at.You may not be aware of the Starchase system...
http://starchase.com/about.php

Carjack · 03-31-2017, 02:01 PM

Yes! The police should be armed then they could shoot their tyres out!

Soul_Glo · 04-01-2017, 12:10 AM

I had an ex-copper friend. It was the local policy of that force that residential chases were dangerous. There had already been accidents of 60 in a 30 - one including the death of a 4 year old girl. He felt there were too many heroes who ignored this and put more lives at risk than necessary.

MrChumley · 04-01-2017, 04:56 AM

I was discussing this with a guy from the home office a few years ago. He said they'd looked into developing a kind of electrical disruptor, which would be fired from the police car. There were loads of safety and technical issues, not least the point mentioned above about plastic car panels, and it got dropped.

I think drones will probably be the answer.

03-26-2017, 11:55 AM	#1
Broncho Banned 2310 Rep 5,101 Posts Drives: Chav white Mercedes Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Rainhill iTrader: (0)	Should the police chase cars? There was a pretty big incident just down the road from me this weekend where 2 lads stole a Fiesta ST and were chased through a busy road / residential area at pretty high speeds 90+. This was just after 3pm on Friday afternoon just after the schools finished, they hit a grandmother and 4 year old on their way back from primary school, the little girl died last night from her injuries and the grandmother is critical. Being so close to home there has been a big social media presence which is to be expected. Quite surprisingly though alongside the baying for blood for the car thieves is the discussion about whether or not the police should have been pursuing the car at such high speeds. I'm in 2 minds here because I'd obviously want the scrotes caught but pushing them and the car beyond their limits have resulted in an innocent family being destroyed! ETA LINK http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/1...d_hit_and_run/ Last edited by Broncho; 03-26-2017 at 12:03 PM..
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03-26-2017, 12:00 PM	#2
Kal101 Major General 3105 Rep 7,032 Posts Drives: 335xd Msport + Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: West mids!!!! iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 Bmw msport + 3 ... [0.00]	That's a real tough question and a tough choice. For the police You've got to balance public safety ( inc the scrotes unfortunately ) with law enforcement My personal thoughts are that while no car etc is worth a loss of innocent life is that I would lay the blame totally at the feet of the scrotes. Even if the police weren't in pursuit there's nothing to say they wouldn't have driven like that any way. If it was just the scrotes injured etc not really a big issue in my eyes. __________________
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03-26-2017, 01:53 PM	#4
AndyEssex330d Captain 322 Rep 746 Posts Drives: BMW 330d M Sport + Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Essex UK iTrader: (0)	I can understand the points made, if police don't chase...they have no need to run away, therefore the probability they speed etc is low. On the other hand...stolen car...used for drugs etc... they may want to drive at that speed because they can and know they won't be caught etc... Chicken and egg really, obviously awful for the family destroyed, but sometimes no matter what else could or couldn't have been done, it wouldn't have changed the outcome. The Americans would have shot first...shot the tyres...I would happily have he police do that here. __________________ Current: 2018 Ford Focus ST-3 TDCI, 2017 Ford Focus RS, 2016 Nissan Qashqai N-Connecta. Previous: 2017 Ford Kuga ST-Line, 2004 Honda CBR 600RR, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013 Focus ST3's, 2013 BMW 125d M sport, 2014 BMW 330d M Sport.
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03-26-2017, 01:58 PM	#5
JustChris General 17486 Rep 25,112 Posts Drives: Tesla MYRWD Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Tough one really. Follow at a distance sounds great usually these things explode and about 5 pikey crims al sprint off in opposite directions!
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03-26-2017, 04:00 PM	#6
Wills2 Barge driver 8653 Rep 12,424 Posts Drives: 730d Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	We can't just let people take what's not theirs and not have a Police force that will take action, the deaths lay right at the feet of the maladjusted scrotes that chose to take what wasn't theirs. I hope they get charged for causing death due to dangerous driving. Property rights and the protection of them is one of the fundamentals of a safe society without that you're looking at anarchy. __________________ 730d/Z4C
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03-26-2017, 04:28 PM	#7
Danny Fireblade Village idiot 748 Rep 1,237 Posts Drives: Myself crazy Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Maybe the question is should scrotes that try to evade police by failing to stop be given an immediate and lengthy custodial sentence? If there is no real punishment for doing it, which really there isn't at this time, then it will continue. The following officer can always stop the pursuit if feel it is too dangerous, or they will be stood down if it is deemed too dangerous by control. It is always a judgement call for the officer, as they will have this on their conscience too if something terrible happens, and many a pursuit is terminated as there will always be a next time. The scrotes have to be lucky every time to get away, police only need to get lucky once.
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03-26-2017, 04:39 PM	#8
Craig-SM Captain 325 Rep 709 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Sport - F30 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Leeds iTrader: (0)	Police are damned if they do. Damned if they don't. Already they are having to fight crime with one arm behind their back. Personally I would make the pursued liable for costs of their apprehension including police costs for the pursuit and any damage caused. If they can't pay in cash then prison time with hard labour. Alternatively just ram the fuckers off the road as soon as possible, no come back on the police regardless of injuries or death.
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03-26-2017, 05:46 PM	#9
JD6 Major General 4267 Rep 6,942 Posts Drives: 840i GC + Mini Electric L3 Join Date: May 2014 Location: United Kingdom iTrader: (0)	It does seem like there must be a technological solution to this, or at least there could be within a decade. Every car could have some black box connected via 4G, and a trigger signal from a central police system either stops the car immediately and locks the doors or does it gradually if it would be safer. Clearly the technology would have to be very secure. On another matter, when prisoners/criminals sue for some human rights infringement, I would suspend payment of any proceeds until every one of their victims had been contacted and offered the chance to sue them.
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03-27-2017, 01:58 AM	#10
Archer-s Captain 247 Rep 805 Posts Drives: on order Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brizzle iTrader: (0)	What about using a magnetic GPS tag, hit the car, then just hang back and watch where they are going. I don't think you can let them off, if they know the police won't chase, then they will do it more, but as many say there has got to be a better way
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03-27-2017, 03:37 AM	#11
Jaghave Colonel 824 Rep 2,145 Posts Drives: 2016 BMW 340i (Auto) RWD Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	Cover the subject pretty well
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03-27-2017, 11:30 AM	#14
Watsey Major General 6404 Rep 8,492 Posts Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: On sabbatical. iTrader: (1)	Could be a good opportunity for drones here. Roof-mounted drone; police laser-sights the moving vehicle; drone locks-on and then uses visual recognition to track the car plus is programmed to follow the driver if the vehicle is abandoned (visual and infra red tracking). Drone communicates its GPS coordinates to police, including helicopter. Drone could even 'buzz' the driver and spray them with smart water. Not sure how many drones can fly at 100mph though, and yes there are a lot of safety issues with this solution ! __________________ Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
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03-27-2017, 04:27 PM	#17
dazzapb Brigadier General 1050 Rep 3,154 Posts Drives: 2019 X3M Comp Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SW London iTrader: (0)	The scum should be charged with Manslaughter banged up even if its the police who ultimately hit someone. At the end of the day the scum have a choice - they don't have to drive like that and face the music. RIP little girl. Digressing - I recall on a US crime show, some gang decided to drive by some kid in the street, said kid shot back (I know - WTF) anyway he killed one of the gang. The surviving gang members were charged with 2nd degree murder of the one that was killed. Good justice.
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03-28-2017, 03:59 AM	#18
Abzynthe Colonel 1379 Rep 2,121 Posts Drives: BMW 440i Gran Coupe LCI Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Why dont they use/develop those emp things in 2Fast2Furious? __________________ Previous: 2010 F01 740d M Sport \| 2015 F36 420d M Sport Current: 2018 F36 440i M Sport (Stage 1 BM3, xHP stage 3)
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03-28-2017, 04:09 AM	#19
Billyray911 Brigadier General 197 Rep 3,500 Posts Drives: Blah Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mind your own business...no,really. iTrader: (6)	This is an interesting subject and alternatives to pursuit are always being looked at.You may not be aware of the Starchase system... http://starchase.com/about.php
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03-31-2017, 02:01 PM	#20
Carjack Stormtrooper 169 Rep 806 Posts Drives: 330i G20 M-Sport Portimao Blue Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Yes! The police should be armed then they could shoot their tyres out!
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04-01-2017, 12:10 AM	#21
Soul_Glo Major General 13346 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	I had an ex-copper friend. It was the local policy of that force that residential chases were dangerous. There had already been accidents of 60 in a 30 - one including the death of a 4 year old girl. He felt there were too many heroes who ignored this and put more lives at risk than necessary.
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04-01-2017, 04:56 AM	#22
MrChumley Major 453 Rep 1,116 Posts Drives: F33 440i convertible Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: East Midlands iTrader: (0)	I was discussing this with a guy from the home office a few years ago. He said they'd looked into developing a kind of electrical disruptor, which would be fired from the police car. There were loads of safety and technical issues, not least the point mentioned above about plastic car panels, and it got dropped. I think drones will probably be the answer.
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