[Carnook]

Originally Posted by Vector

Consumer Reports top Sports Sedan is the G37. It also rates the BMW 1-Series as the highest rated Sporty Car.

You can take this for what it is worth

The G37 is a lovely car, but not nearly as refined as the 3 series. I would describe it as untamed, unwieldy sportiness.

The G37 interior is pretty luscious with some really great materials.

[BimmerGuyFL]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Car and driver and Edmunds didnt have anything good to say about the F30's steering and braking either.

That's right. BMW has changed its mission and I don't understand HOW they can call themselves "The Ultimate Driving Machine". A 3-series was never known for being roomy, fuel efficient....it was known for it's uncanny ability to make the driver feel connected to the road through the steering wheel. They made you feel confident in almost any condition for which you would encounter on the road.

I test-drove the new F30 328i a few times. I left with a feeling of "Eh" I wasn't passionate about the drive like I was when I first test-drove an E36, E46, and the E90. Sure, The new F30 handles well, gets the job done, and might be precise when given steering inputs. But, is it FUN to drive and reminds you of what made BMW a BMW, NO.

If you research Car&Driver, Insideline, and Consumer Reports on their test drives for the previous generation 3-series, they ALL praised from the beginning on how excellent the driving dynamics where. It was consistent across all those different reviews from different sources. Now the same sources have reviewed the new 3-series in many different forms. i.e. 328i, 335i, modern, Luxury, Sport etc etc, and they come across with the same results. The steering has lost that BMW soul. It's mission is more foggy than clear and upfront about talking back to it's driver.

I am not saying the F30 is a terrible car, but it has changed and not towards becoming a more focused spirited fun to drive machine that makes you jump in and attack the local twisty roads. Like all other things in life, all good things must come to an end.

[ATX78703]

there is nothing wrong with this consumer reports review. it is in line with many of the other car mag reviews out there.

the bottom line is BMW is no longer a niche brand for sports sedans (which it basically invented btw). while all the competitors have been trying to recreate "that BMW feel", BMW has been gearing more for luxury, efficiency, ride quality, expense reduction and, of course, MORE PROFIT!!

I think what this has lead to is a general dulling or blanding of their volume models. I think they will still give the enthusiasts what they want, but it will just cost more and be more specialized. M-sport pkgs, M performance models, M performance accessories, and true ///M cars.

It is sad that when i buy my next 3er, i will likely have to pay at least mid-$50's to get as engaging a driving experience as i am getting now with my $38K e90.

[The X Men]

BMW have basically Americanized the 3 series, bigger, softer, isolated steering feel and even useable cup holders

[Mdynamic]

Originally Posted by Carnook

The G37 is a lovely car, but not nearly as refined as the 3 series. I would describe it as untamed, unwieldy sportiness.

The G37 interior is pretty luscious with some really great materials.

I hope you meant the F30 is pretty luscious with some great materials...

[Vong]

wanna see something more stupid?

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...-Midsize-Cars/

[shoptb]

Originally Posted by Vong

wanna see something more stupid?

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...-Midsize-Cars/

GM funded?

[Carnook]

Originally Posted by Mdynamic

I hope you meant the F30 is pretty luscious with some great materials...

I love the F30, but I did mean the G37.

[Ron Scott]

Does the f30 335 suffer the same fate as the 328 in the opinions of those of you who have spent enought time in both?

[ric124]

Originally Posted by Ron Scott

Does the f30 335 suffer the same fate as the 328 in the opinions of those of you who have spent enought time in both?

It was night and day for my test drive but I have yet to spend more than a few mins in them.

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by Ron Scott

Does the f30 335 suffer the same fate as the 328 in the opinions of those of you who have spent enought time in both?

I have only test driven a f30 335i sportline with the 18's, not 19's. It actually drove quite well, still better than any of the competitors. The steering did not bother me too much at higher speeds, but it did seem very assisted at low speeds. Overall, the car was much "nicer" than the e90 on the inside with more gadgets. The sports 8AT was the best part for me.

[BimmerGuyFL]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

there is nothing wrong with this consumer reports review. it is in line with many of the other car mag reviews out there.

the bottom line is BMW is no longer a niche brand for sports sedans (which it basically invented btw). while all the competitors have been trying to recreate "that BMW feel", BMW has been gearing more for luxury, efficiency, ride quality, expense reduction and, of course, MORE PROFIT!!

I think what this has lead to is a general dulling or blanding of their volume models. I think they will still give the enthusiasts what they want, but it will just cost more and be more specialized. M-sport pkgs, M performance models, M performance accessories, and true ///M cars.

It is sad that when i buy my next 3er, i will likely have to pay at least mid-$50's to get as engaging a driving experience as i am getting now with my $38K e90.

Well Said ATX78703 +1!

[cgpublic]

Wait for the next 1 - the 1M was just a teaser.

The 3, other than M and specialty badges such as the IS, is now established and is designed as a volume badge. Especially in the case of the new 328.

And that does not necessarily mean it is a bad car. In fact, although I haven't yet driven a F30, I'll bet it is still worth the premium for the average driver.

FYI: If you want to know why the F30 appears so similar to the E90, take a peek at the US leasing vs. finance numbers. BMW can't afford to obsolete all of those 3 series about to be returned to their dealers.

[Reznick]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

That's right. BMW has changed its mission and I don't understand HOW they can call themselves "The Ultimate Driving Machine". A 3-series was never known for being roomy, fuel efficient....it was known for it's uncanny ability to make the driver feel connected to the road through the steering wheel. They made you feel confident in almost any condition for which you would encounter on the road.

I test-drove the new F30 328i a few times. I left with a feeling of "Eh" I wasn't passionate about the drive like I was when I first test-drove an E36, E46, and the E90. Sure, The new F30 handles well, gets the job done, and might be precise when given steering inputs. But, is it FUN to drive and reminds you of what made BMW a BMW, NO.

If you research Car&Driver, Insideline, and Consumer Reports on their test drives for the previous generation 3-series, they ALL praised from the beginning on how excellent the driving dynamics where. It was consistent across all those different reviews from different sources. Now the same sources have reviewed the new 3-series in many different forms. i.e. 328i, 335i, modern, Luxury, Sport etc etc, and they come across with the same results. The steering has lost that BMW soul. It's mission is more foggy than clear and upfront about talking back to it's driver.

I am not saying the F30 is a terrible car, but it has changed and not towards becoming a more focused spirited fun to drive machine that makes you jump in and attack the local twisty roads. Like all other things in life, all good things must come to an end.

You can say that and on some points I'll agree, but when I ordered my first E46 all the magazines were raising hell that the steering was over boosted and that BMW had ruined the 3 series . It had lost its soul forever , never to be regained. A few months pass. A few tweaks were made .All was good.
The 3 series is BMW's bread and butter. Its gotten bigger wider and heavier like most all cars have.The Chassis & suspension feels fine and its not as though the steering feels like it came from an Olds Delta 88.These are the first runs of this generation . A few tweaks and it will be back normal. Porsche had to take a few whacks at it's steering too.
Like it or not , they fact that the 3 series has become such a popular car has in some ways become a curse.There just aren't enough people out there that drive cars for the sheer joy of driving .

[BimmerGuyFL]

Originally Posted by Reznick

You can say that and on some points I'll agree, but when I ordered my first E46 all the magazines were raising hell that the steering was over boosted and that BMW had ruined the 3 series . It had lost its soul forever , never to be regained. A few months pass. A few tweaks were made .All was good.
The 3 series is BMW's bread and butter. Its gotten bigger wider and heavier like most all cars have.The Chassis & suspension feels fine and its not as though the steering feels like it came from an Olds Delta 88.These are the first runs of this generation . A few tweaks and it will be back normal. Porsche had to take a few whacks at it's steering too.
Like it or not , they fact that the 3 series has become such a popular car has in some ways become a curse.There just aren't enough people out there that drive cars for the sheer joy of driving .

Sorry but I disagree on your last point. The reason BMW became so famous and sought after, is due to the fact that for years it built it's reputation for providing a driving experience which no other luxury car company could provide. i.e. dynamic, fun to drive, feeling confident, and one with the car, while blending a comfortable ride, great exterior designs being unique, excellent quality materials overall, quiet, smooth engines, etc etc. This was a winning formula which put them at the top of the class. especially for the 3-series and 5-series. Right now they might not be affected in sales because they still are "perceived" as what they were. Car reviews, road tests, the news, and media has a LARGE affect on the overall out come of a car company.

When you read a review on previous BMWs, they had many positives and hardly any draw backs except maybe price. Since the introduction of the F10, Current Z4, the F25, F30, it has been consistent on the outcome towards being less and less engaging. What BMW is doing to themselves are become more mainstream and closer to other cars within their class instead of setting again a higher benchmark. They are trying to be too many things to too many audiences.

These are supposed to be premium cars and not cars for the low end class who care more about fuel economy. I am sure they could have reached a happy medium with some increased fuel economy and not sacrificing the traditional BMW soul.

[ede92]

Grumpy old reporter

[tuned2ride]

These are supposed to be premium cars and not cars for the low end class who care more about fuel economy.

Quoted for truth.

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

When you read a review on previous BMWs, they had many positives and hardly any draw backs except maybe price. Since the introduction of the F10, Current Z4, the F25, F30, it has been consistent on the outcome towards being less and less engaging. What BMW is doing to themselves are become more mainstream and closer to other cars within their class instead of setting again a higher benchmark. They are trying to be too many things to too many audiences.

I think this encapsulates the problem very well. I have no doubt that the F10 and F30 will sell well and succeed as BMW intends them to, but I also think BMW is increasing the danger of diluting the BMW brand which could impact their long-term ability to exact the cost premiums they do today over the likes of Audi, Infiniti, etc.

BMW reverted back to "The Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan after "Joy" turned out to be a dud, but it's not reflected across their model line. They are definitely making more cars for more people (which is good for stability and profitability), but I'm also think a change in philosophy is creeping into their core products to a greater extent than ever before.

For example, I haven't read a single review of the F10 that I would say is truly positive -- the A6 seems to be winning all the accolades as the better driving car. Similarly, I haven't run across any review that suggests the new Z4 is remotely competitive with a Boxster/Cayman as a sports car (unlike the previous Z4 & M Coupe/Convertible which many felt was sportier). The same criticisms seem to pop up in every review: BMW's cars are softer and less involving. What worries me is that I see elements of these same criticisms reflected in almost every F30 review.

BMW has hung their hat on being the best performance car in each class for a long time -- it's their primary identity -- so I worry what will happen if they don't keeping pushing the bar and they allow when competitors to close the gap. The F30 still seems to be the consensus best car in its class (as it should -- it's a brand new model), but I don't feel it has created the insurmountable gap that previous 3 Series have relative to the competition. I have a hard time thinking I would ever buy a Cadillac, but the ATS appears to be a very serious competitor on the horizon and I have a feeling Infiniti is going to make great strides with the next G.

I'm hopeful that the M-Sport models will be more meaningfully focused on the traditional BMW driving experience, but as others point out, it's hard to overlook the rapidly increasing price of well-equipped M-Sport models. So yes, the F30 is still best in class, but it's fair to think BMW could have done more to keep the 3 Series further ahead of the competition, especially considering the price premium.

[blindmule]

Here is a key point about steering some people are missing. All cars are changing. I mean all cars! There is a distinct change in feel when you go from a hydrualic system to one that has an electrically boosted component (although F30 is still rack and pinion). I never owned an E90 but that tight firm steering was a thing of beauty, but also now for the history books.

My Mrk6 Gti was not as crisp as the Mrk5. My 2010 MDX is not as tight as as the 2008 MDX I had. Both those cars switched to electric steering. Porsche has boost in there steering now too.

Full hydraulic steering adds to fuel consumption significantly. There is too much global pressure to be fuel efficient even for premium brands. Just as turbo/super charging changes the throttle response, we have to get used to lighter steering. It's a global pressure that car manufactures face. I lament the death of the naturally aspirated 8 cyl, but have to accept I will never own again.

Tight heavy steering is dead too. Trust me, it's not just BMW.

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by blindmule

Tight heavy steering is dead too. Trust me, it's not just BMW.

Yes, even if it's lamentable, it's understandable just the like the move to a turbo 4. If Porsche had to switch to electric steering on the almighty 911, BMW certainly had no real choice on the 3 Series.

My hope is that BMW will somehow channel their R&D efforts and engineering expertise into an electric steering system that is somehow different than everyone else. Optical road sensors with more force feedback? Who knows -- just something different and better than the competition have to offer.

Think of it this way: BMW has had power assisted hydraulic steering just like Audi and everyone else, but the steering on the current A4/A5 is a joke compared with the E90. It's the same basic technology, but BMW did it much better. I'm optimistic they'll tune electric steering somehow so they create a similar competitive sporting edge as they did when everyone was using electro-hydraulic steering. It may take a few more years to adapt their engineering skill advantage to the new technology, but it's not impossible.

[bananachipz]

wow.. I must have clicked www.f30whinerpost.com LOL

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by bananachipz

wow.. I must have clicked www.f30whinerpost.com LOL

I guess we should expect this kind of reply on public internet forums, but it's still disappointing that people can't engage in a civil discussion about BMWs -- both the good and the bad -- without the inevitable defensive backlash from those unable or unwilling to add anything meaningful to the conversation. Respectful discussion and commentary, even if it's sometimes critical, does not equate to whining.

I'm a car nut and, more to the point, a BMW fan, but that doesn't mean I have to love everything about every car they pump out. If it weren't for customers who care enough about BMWs to hold them to a higher standard, BMWs wouldn't be the company they are today.

LOL indeed.