[MarkG_M5Comp]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

Not free if you have a puncture ona bend ona wet and windy night.

Not free if if you have a blow out

Having parents who had a blowout in a Golf on what is now the A14 anfd the Golf rolled, moving away from runflats is the one change I am never going to make

Don't believe for a second that run flats don't suffer from blow outs.... I have a friend who's had a number in quick succession!

[teaston]

Originally Posted by MarkG335

Don't believe for a second that run flats don't suffer from blow outs.... I have a friend who's had a number in quick succession!

But aren't run flats safer if you do suffer a blow out, i.e. They don't lose as much control?

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by teaston

Lol, i was going to PM you but thought might as well ask in this thread!

What pressures do you run them at, as being XL they should have higher pressures i believe?

And as i say there are star marked 225's which i guess are for the front of the M3/4, and they appear to have a slightly different tread pattern, at least acoording to tyreleaders product photo!

first pic is non star, 2nd pic is star marked.

The one on the left is a Michelin Pilot super sport, the one on the right is a Michelin Pilot Sport 2. Is my observation.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by GBR1

The star marked one I think can be used on a Porsche, Porsche have some weird thing where you can only use certain tyres!

Certainly the tread pattern on the right looked like my Porsche tyres!

GBR1

Star marked are BMW's OE tyre stamp.

Porsche use N (N0, N1, N2, etc)

Mercedes they are MO

and Audi use AO or RO1

Jaguar use J

[teaston]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

The one on the left is a Michelin Pilot super sport, the one on the right is a Michelin Pilot Sport 2. Is my observation.

Whoops you're right it's a pilot sport PS2!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by teaston

But aren't run flats safer if you do suffer a blow out, i.e. They don't lose as much control?

The post earlier no doubt relates to an older car with high aspect ratio tyres.

Modern cars with low profile tyres and anti roll bars are much more controllable than they were. I had a rapid deflation on the motorway in my Merc, other than the sound and vibration, I wouldn't have known.

And it's not just me....I see many motorists on the side of the motorway with completely shredded tyres. This is from driving on a completely flat tyre, no rolls, spins or even skid marks. Not saying that a blow out whilst cornering hard wouldn't be fun, but it is about risk level.

For me the difference in risk is not actually the reduction of car control after a puncture, but the risk of being run over on the hard shoulder trying to change or fix a non RF. I am quite prepared to ruin an alloy driving it flat to a safe stopping point.

If there is one risk you want to avoid with tyres......change them before the tread gets below 3mm. That in my view (and from accident statistics) would have a far bigger safety impact than whether you have run flats or not.

With that in mind, you could argue that non run flats are safer, as financially there is less pressure on individuals to use up as much tyre as possible. Run flats are typically 10% more expensive than their NRF counterparts, and even more so when you compare other brands that don't make RFT (Vredestein, Yokohama, Hankook, Toyo, etc). So for a given cost of tyre per mile, you can afford to change the NRFT more frequently, roughly 0.8mm more average tread depth if you want to look at it mathematically.

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

The post earlier no doubt relates to an older car with high aspect ratio tyres.

Modern cars with low profile tyres and anti roll bars are much more controllable than they were. I had a rapid deflation on the motorway in my Merc, other than the sound and vibration, I wouldn't have known.



If there is one risk you want to avoid with tyres......change them before the tread gets below 3mm. That in my view (and from accident statistics) would have a far bigger safety impact than whether you have run flats or not.

With that in mind, you could argue that non run flats are safer, as financially there is less pressure on individuals to use up as much tyre as possible. Run flats are typically 10% more expensive than their NRF counterparts, and even more so when you compare other brands that don't make RFT (Vredestein, Yokohama, Hankook, Toyo, etc). So for a given cost of tyre per mile, you can afford to change the NRFT more frequently, roughly 0.8mm more average tread depth if you want to look at it mathematically.

I agree on changing well before legal limit. If cost is an issue then the logic applies just as much to avoiding 18 and 19 and 20 inch wheels as it does to avoiding runflats, probably more so. How do 17 inch RFT's ride compared to 19 inch non RFT's?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

The post earlier no doubt relates to an older car with high aspect ratio tyres.

Modern cars with low profile tyres and anti roll bars are much more controllable than they were. I had a rapid deflation on the motorway in my Merc, other than the sound and vibration, I wouldn't have known.

And it's not just me....I see many motorists on the side of the motorway with completely shredded tyres. This is from driving on a completely flat tyre, no rolls, spins or even skid marks. Not saying that a blow out whilst cornering hard wouldn't be fun, but it is about risk level.

For me the difference in risk is not actually the reduction of car control after a puncture, but the risk of being run over on the hard shoulder trying to change or fix a non RF. I am quite prepared to ruin an alloy driving it flat to a safe stopping point.

If there is one risk you want to avoid with tyres......change them before the tread gets below 3mm. That in my view (and from accident statistics) would have a far bigger safety impact than whether you have run flats or not.

With that in mind, you could argue that non run flats are safer, as financially there is less pressure on individuals to use up as much tyre as possible. Run flats are typically 10% more expensive than their NRF counterparts, and even more so when you compare other brands that don't make RFT (Vredestein, Yokohama, Hankook, Toyo, etc). So for a given cost of tyre per mile, you can afford to change the NRFT more frequently, roughly 0.8mm more average tread depth if you want to look at it mathematically.

That's a good point, and puts my mind at ease about the safety of non rft's.

However, the eagle f1 assy 2 rft's are a bit cheaper than the pss's actually, £21 per rear & £11 per front, not a deal killer i know, but does change your point about rft's being more expensive.

However the f1 assy 2's don't appear to have rim protection, which the pss's do.

[JonD]

Has anybody looked into the implications with insurance? Possibly some companies would veiw NRFT's it as a modification as they're not manafactures specification.

[simon.]

Originally Posted by JonD

Has anybody looked into the implications with insurance? Possibly some companies would veiw NRFT's it as a modification as they're not manafactures specification.

You are correct to question & check with your insurer but a carefully worded conversation mentioning that MPSS's are a BMW factory approved & fitted tyre on BMW cars might help you get them to approve with little or no cost as a mod

Had them on my M135i & they were totally epic. The F31 is too new to evern consider changing as yet, need my monies worth from the RFL's first

[JonD]

Originally Posted by simon.

You are correct to question & check with your insurer but a carefully worded conversation mentioning that MPSS's are a BMW factory approved & fitted tyre on BMW cars might help you get them to approve with little or no cost as a mod

Had them on my M135i & they were totally epic. The F31 is too new to evern consider changing as yet, need my monies worth from the RFL's first

Yes, they're a fantastic tyre, I have them on my current M135. But are the PSS people fitting to their 3 & 4 series BMW factory approved? I'm not sure they're denoted with the *, therefore technically they may say they're not.

I don't know the answer but we all know how insurance companies want more money off us and any excuse not to pay a claim.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by JonD

Yes, they're a fantastic tyre, I have them on my current M135. But are the PSS people fitting to their 3 & 4 series BMW factory approved? I'm not sites they're denoted with the *, therefore technically they may say they're not.

I don't know the answer but we all know how insurance companies want more money off us and any excuse not to pay a claim.

My insurer is aware and don't care as long as they're legal

[JonD]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

My insurer is aware and don't care as long as they're legal

Well then it's not an issue to you as you're insurer is aware, but for others just possibly something that should be considered

[simon.]

Originally Posted by JonD

Well then it's not an issue to you as you're insurer is aware, but for others just possibly something that should be considered

Agree but think the * is taking it a little too far. I had a full set on my car when owned along with a replacement rear as a M12 bolt thru a 2K old tyre didn't want to repair. IIRC, none were *'d & I didn't think to or see reason to ask / request them to be.

[JonD]

Originally Posted by simon.

Agree but think the * is taking it a little too far. I had a full set on my car when owned along with a replacement rear as a M12 bolt thru a 2K old tyre didn't want to repair. IIRC, none were *'d & I didn't think to or see reason to ask / request them to be.

Possibly is Simon, like I say I don't know the answer but we're all aware of how these companies can operate.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by teaston

That's a good point, and puts my mind at ease about the safety of non rft's.

However, the eagle f1 assy 2 rft's are a bit cheaper than the pss's actually, £21 per rear & £11 per front, not a deal killer i know, but does change your point about rft's being more expensive.

However the f1 assy 2's don't appear to have rim protection, which the pss's do.

I guess it is down to seasonal discounts too. Perhaps BMW only (I know others use RF, but in 19" sizes they are predominantly BMW) are typically using winter tyres right now so bigger discounts to stimulate RF??? Judging by a tyre selling site, the usual price for F1 assym 2 (255/35/19) is £284.28 for the Run flat and £189.39 for an XL NRFT. Of course discount levels vary dramatically. My PSS went down £10 per tyre, probably because it is winter.

[Tengocity]

Gordon, are you now on MPSS all round now? If so, how is it? Tram lining still?

[Carjack]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

Not free if you have a puncture ona bend ona wet and windy night.

Not free if if you have a blow out

Having parents who had a blowout in a Golf on what is now the A14 anfd the Golf rolled, moving away from runflats is the one change I am never going to make

+1
With runflats if you have a puncture on the motorway, it's no prob.
I've just driven to my destination/home and then next day driven to a tyre store.
Its a no brainer!
Its just not worth all the probs if you have puncture with a
non-runflat tyre, particularly on a wet & windy night!

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Carjack

+1
With runflats if you have a puncture on the motorway, it's no prob.
I've just driven to my destination/home and then next day driven to a tyre store.
Its a no brainer!
Its just not worth all the probs if you have puncture with a
non-runflat tyre, particularly on a wet & windy night!

Driven to the tyre store and paid over £200 for a new tyre!!

Or have on a non rft, stop and put some slime in your tyre which takes 20 mins max, then get the tyre repaired for just £15!

Your right it is a no brainer, to get non rft's though!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Gordon, are you now on MPSS all round now? If so, how is it? Tram lining still?

It still does, yes.

Changing the fronts hasn't been quite as dramatic a change as the rears (must be the wheelspin reduction), but there is definitely less rumble through the steering wheel. Tyre grip is very good though, as is front wheel tracking and feedback when cornering. Nice improvement.

I drove Ade_7's F31 330d with ACS springs......big improvement over standard BMW MS version. I would say the spring rate is similar to my Bilsteins, but the Bilstein dampers are also a little firmer (setting 3 out of 10). Well worth doing on ALL types of F3x cars I'd say. You could also upgrade to Bilstein shocks to improve things further.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by teaston

Driven to the tyre store and paid over £200 for a new tyre!!

Or have on a non rft, stop and put some slime in your tyre which takes 20 mins max, then get the tyre repaired for just £15!

Your right it is a no brainer, to get non rft's though!

We get a slightly different view if we move away from an enthusiasts forum. Many folk don't mess with wheels and tyres, (BMW or any other marque), so RFTs make so much sense.

Yes they are flawed for the enthusiast driver, and if we see the extra costs isolated from the safety aspects, women drivers getting to safe places, etc., etc., we may view them as an expensive waste of time. They are simply like extra insurance, 'peace of mind' to many users.

HighlandPete

[....,,,,..,,..]

Let's face it majority of car owners just drive to Kwik fit and ask for some tyres and accept what's fitted.

Where as majority of us on here will read reviews, ask others opinions, spend 6 months researching them.

Have them fitted and if we don't like them, but something else.