[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by bahasad

Keep sipping on that tea knowing you bought a $60000 3 series haha. Actually whoops my bad what like $45K stock?

BMWs are overpriced now, and you're not paying for the quality and soul they used to have. Take it from somebody's who's owned 3 and I'm only 25, and my parents who've had a couple as well.

You've owned a whole 3 of them? Ohh EEEM GEEE. all hail the expert!

Edit: whoa your parents have owned some too?

[smithf80]

Originally Posted by FC4

So long as you don't whine about how modern store-bought vanilla tastes nothing like it did in the 50s with different ingredients.

Anyone else notice how OP who's complaning drives a bottom-of-the-line model, in AWD form no less. Get a grip.

Here we go again with assholes like you calling the 328 a "bottom-of-the-line" model, as if besides the engine its truly any different, hint: it isn't.

[Ali Shiralian]

Originally Posted by FC4

No.

YES, and btw I do have DHP

[300hp]

Popcorn anyone, this thread is about to blow up

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

I leased 2 E90 328i's. I now lease a 2014 328i. While the N52 and N20 engines are different animals, the engine is the least of my complaints about the F30. It's a gem of an engine, quite smooth for an I4, very fast, responsive and efficient. I have zero complaints about it.

Yes the interior quality is lacking compared to the E90 but the E90 interior was boring and bland. The F30 interior style is worlds better.

Last, yes the driving dynamics are different and less visceral in the F30. The steering is the biggest change. The handling may not be as crisp but the ride is in a different class. My 2011 E90 had 17" wheels and base suspension yet was harsh and occasionally downright scary over potholes and bumps. My F30 has the 704 Sport suspension and 18" wheels and rides far better and has no problem handling those same type of bumps.

Overall the E90 was a better sports sedan for the hardcore but the F30 has higher capabilities and is a far better all around car.

How long have you had the F30 so far?
My initial impressions were exactly the same as yours. My F30 definitely rides harder with its 18s and Dinan Springs than my E90 though.

N20 is definitely quick and efficient (actually when you go fast i.e. add a tune it isn't as efficient as you'd think), just not very quiet or refined compared to the I6s of yore. And reading some of the threads where people blew them up, not very durable either. N55 might be a different story.

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by smithe90

Here we go again with assholes like you calling the 328 a "bottom-of-the-line" model, as if besides the engine its truly any different, hint: it isn't.

N55 or N20 withstanding, everything else is the same.

[smithf80]

Originally Posted by bahasad

N55 or N20 withstanding, everything else is the same.

To these guys if it doesn't doesn't end in 35i and have DHP then it's a base model

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

You have no performance options on your car except the sports seats. Worst case scenario.

What's a performance option on a 328I?

I hardly say my 328I doesn't have performance - it is coded with the faster sport shifting, is lowered more than the sport suspension, and has a stage 1 tune. It is not stock.

[Axman85]

One knucklehead compares an N20 to a V8 and complains, a 25 year old who is spoiled or leveraged his ass off, and a 3rd who thinks a 328 is the same as a 335.

Wow, the lower the model #, the lower the quality, the lower the refinement. 328 and it's closest cousin the 320 aren't in the same ballpark as a 335. Perhaps you should spend time comparing them versus making dumb ass assertions.

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by bahasad

What's a performance option on a 328I?

I hardly say my 328I doesn't have performance - it is coded with the faster sport shifting, is lowered more than the sport suspension, and has a stage 1 tune. It is not stock.

It seems that you're blaming BMW for "losing its way" because you're still struggling to make the car into what you want despite your post-purchase modifications. Had you put RWD, Variable Sport Steering, Adaptive M Suspension, Xenon lights, and HK audio on the original build perhaps you wouldn't feel this way.

Judge BMW on the car you built and not on the car you thought you were getting, I'd say you should be very happy.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian

I chose the N55 for the same reason as I belive BMW is extracting too much power from such a small displacement, although I did own a 1992 ,318I which only had about 150 hp and lasted over 400k. My problem with the N20 is the engine sound and long term durability of the turbos. The disparity I found between the 318 and the 335 is the steering feel and better suspension feel. Other than that I feel the 335 is ears ahead, technologically speaking

You can say the same thing about the N55. Years ago one could only get about 150hp from a 3.0L 6. The N20 is fine. You old school people need to relax. BMW can actually get 300hp out of a 2.0L no problem in the near future. Look at Mercedes.

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by joewalton

It seems that you're blaming BMW for "losing its way" because you're still struggling to make the car into what you want despite your post-purchase modifications. Had you put RWD, Variable Sport Steering, Adaptive M Suspension, Xenon lights, and HK audio on the original build perhaps you wouldn't feel this way.

Judge BMW on the car you built and not on the car you thought you were getting, I'd say you should be very happy.

Right so I gotta put all those options just so I can compare my new F30 to my base E90 with a manual and a 20 year old E39? Amongst other cars?

RWD might have a point there.
Variable sport steering? What is that? If you mean in sport or sport+ mode the steering tightens my 14 has that (supposedly).
Adaptive M suspension - changes suspension settings between sport and comfort correct? How would that help me if I already have dinan suspension on my car with respect to steering feel or handling?
Xenon lights and HK Audio had absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

Also to the idiot who said a spoiled 25 year old? You don't know me. I bought this car, as well as every single car, 100% on my own. This is the only brand new car I bought and I leased it comfortably. I make a decent amount of money living on my own far away from my parents (who are middle class anyways). I grew up poor, worked for my shit.

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by bahasad

Right so I gotta put all those options just so I can compare my new F30 to my base E90 with a manual and a 20 year old E39? Amongst other cars?

RWD might have a point there.
Variable sport steering? What is that? If you mean in sport or sport+ mode the steering tightens my 14 has that (supposedly).
Adaptive M suspension - changes suspension settings between sport and comfort correct? How would that help me if I already have dinan suspension on my car with respect to steering feel or handling?
Xenon lights and HK Audio had absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

Yes, you have to put all those options just so you can compare your car to a base E90 with a manual. What, this is a surprise to you now? That BMW makes you pay money to get back the rock-hard suspension you want? We've been talking about this for 3 years.

Same for the other "quality" touches you say the car is lacking. The lighting package makes a huge difference, HK audio will make you forget the old 3 sound systems, you could have prioritized these along with the RWD/DHP decision over your other choices.

It's not 1998 anymore. A BMW 3 Series isn't one 'thing'. It's make-your-own-sundae. They give you the ice cream and the bowl, the rest is up to you. If you don't like the taste of the marshmallow and gummy bears, well, it's not the restaurant's fault you didn't go for chocolate chips and hot fudge.

Your F30 could have been everything you wanted it to be if you configured it differently. We understand you're frustrated. However it's not BMW's fault. It's your fault.

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by joewalton

Yes, you have to put all those options just so you can compare your car to a base E90 with a manual. What, this is a surprise to you now? That BMW makes you pay money to get back the rock-hard suspension you want? We've been talking about this for 3 years.

Same for the other "quality" touches you say the car is lacking. The lighting package makes a huge difference, HK audio will make you forget the old 3 sound systems, you could have prioritized these along with the RWD/DHP decision over your other choices.

It's not 1998 anymore. A BMW 3 Series isn't one 'thing'. It's make-your-own-sundae. They give you the ice cream and the bowl, the rest is up to you. If you don't like the taste of the marshmallow and gummy bears, well, it's not the restaurant's fault you didn't go for chocolate chips and hot fudge.

Your F30 could have been everything you wanted it to be if you configured it differently. We understand you're frustrated. However it's not BMW's fault. It's your fault.

I already have rock hard suspension in the form of my Dinan Springs + stops?

My car is not a stock BMW 328I from the factory. It has plenty of aftermarket performance upgrades besides RWD. I bought AWD because of the additional confidence in inclement weather (and the AWD is rear biased anyways).

The audio and lighting were not a point of comparison. The quality I was referring to was the leather material, the interior plastics, the overall feeling of construction and solidity. I myself could care less about audio.

Out of all the cars I've had or driven, my F30 is the most optioned.

There was a time when BMWs (in my opinion of course) were noticeably ahead of the competition (MB, Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, Cadillac). Now that gap is very small or the competitors already beat them, and their old cars even outshine their new cars in certain aspects that I've mentioned. This thread was my realization of that fact 6 months after I bought my car. That is all nothing more.

[openwheelracing]

Dont engage with Joe Walton. He is BJ from bimmerfest. A known troll who pretends to be a high roller. Fact is the guy has no life and has a terrible sense of humor.

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by bahasad

There was a time when BMWs (in my opinion of course) were noticeably ahead of the competition (MB, Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, Cadillac). Now that gap is very small or the competitors already beat them, and their old cars even outshine their new cars in certain aspects that I've mentioned. This thread was my realization of that fact 6 months after I bought my car. That is all nothing more.

Fair enough. Just once I'd like someone to come into a thread and say "Damn, I built the car incorrectly, sorry BMW, I let you down with my decisions".

And while BMW may have taken the edge off the blade in certain performance aspects they've done a great job in responding to the competition in other ways. All the 3's and 4's and all their body styles and all their engines and all their lines and all their optional equipment, no other car maker can compete with what BMW has built. In an era of customers craving customization, BMW is off-the-charts with its strategy. This too is why being misinformed can be tricky, it's not hard to accidentally build the wrong car.

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by joewalton

Fair enough. Just once I'd like someone to come into a thread and say "Damn, I built the car incorrectly, sorry BMW, I let you down with my decisions".

And while BMW may have taken the edge off the blade in certain performance aspects they've done a great job in responding to the competition in other ways. All the 3's and 4's and all their body styles and all their engines and all their lines and all their optional equipment, no other car maker can compete with what BMW has built. In an era of customers craving customization, BMW is off-the-charts with its strategy. This too is why being misinformed can be tricky, it's not hard to accidentally build the wrong car.

I actually didn't build the car, just bought it off the lot (had to buy a car because my E90 was given to my sister and honestly I liked the F30 despite its flaws). It was the best optioned out around 50k, because there's no way in hell I'd pay more for a 3-series than 50k even with those options (ended up being about 46K with all discounts). The aftermarket parts I've added seem to have compensated for any "performance" options I've missed - just to reiterate, BMS Stage 1, Dinan Suspension, Sport Auto.

I do agree that BMWs approach to customization is definitely a good thing. Just feel like that customization might not address the problem that BMW needs to go back to its roots examine some of the core strengths that made their old cars great (everything from the E30, E36, E46, E39, E38 so on and so on) and try to implement that. And maybe take a good look at the pricing structure. Just an enthusiast of BMWs opinion despite their high sales.

Its crazy how my post seems to have struck a cord with some when that really wasn't my intention . We all family here

[Golden Arrow]

Originally Posted by bahasad

So I left my F30 at my apartment at Michigan for about 3 weeks and am back in my home state of NJ. I have been tooling around in my old (my sister's) E90 and have also had a chance to test drive an E39 540I (which I may be purchasing and driving back to MI). Both of these cars left great impressions on me so far and have me kind of disappointed in the F30. I never thought I'd say that because I seemed to genuinely like the ownership over the last 6 months I've had it, and I still do.

The thing that irks me is BMW has definitely gone down in quality in this latest generation (I have also driven an F10 5 series and my comments are the same). The solid steering, the handling, the interior quality, the mechanical connection (especially noticeable in the M62 powered 540) are all gone. My sister's BMW has 94000 miles and I can feel it going at least 50000 more with the same smoothness (hardly can say that about my N20 which vibrates and is more harsh at 7000 miles). The 540Is leather and interior feels a universe apart from my F30. Not to mention it's great V8.

My F30 has the benefit of new technology, no cost maintenance, and is pretty quick (even slightly quicker than the 540). But other then that it feels a little soulless after driving these old cars again. Would I get rid of it? Hell no, it is my daily driver, the first car I purchased new, I like how it looks, and it is a quick beast.

But I am trying to justify buying an older BMW to give me some of that soul back.
Am I the only one to think this? Anyone else have an older BMW?

I'll spare you a lecture about your purchase, since it seems everyone else has bashed you for it.

I've previously had a '03 330xi, and still have my '04 330ci along with my F30 335i. I understand what you're saying about the feel of the older Bimmers. That's not to say I dislike the way my F30 drives, but it's was very different than what I was expecting...in a good way.

The sports sedan market has changed dramatically over the last decade, as well as the buyers of these cars. CAFE regs essentially mandate the use of forced induction engines for the foreseeable future, and BMW has done well coping with the changes and government mandates. The N55 engine is lovely to drive and the N20 is a great first attempt at a four-cylinder that doesn't suck. I can't wait to drive the new B-series motors.

As for interiors, I prefer my F30 over my E46s and the E90s I've driven. It's different, but as with the powertrain I think it's a step forward.

I understand your feelings, but hang on. I suspect the next-gen 3 and 4 series will address most of our issues with the current F-cars. Plus, CFRP should be fun.

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by bahasad

Its crazy how my post seems to have struck a cord with some when that really wasn't my intention . We all family here

Agreed. You have a great car. Next time, tell your sister "no thanks" when she offers you the keys

An E90 or E39 would make for a terrific second car, something to look forward to as there are plenty of them around.

Have a happy holiday.

[Mike_L]

Don't know what you're complaining about. I owned an E39 Dinan 540. Also an E70 X5M, F02 750Li and will be picking up my 335 GT on Monday. Quite frankly, the only thing I miss about the older cars is the build quality. The E39 went 6 years before it started rattling, while everything since has rattled in a matter of months. They don't drive any better. The M62 is inferior to the S63/N63 and N55 in every way. The E39 540 has crummy recirculating ball steering thats not as good as the F30s. The interiors are cheap looking, with tons of cheap plastic. Lets not even mention the plastic cooling system with the exploding fan.

Look at things for what they are and not what you see through rose colored glasses.

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Don't know what you're complaining about. I owned an E39 Dinan 540. Also an E70 X5M, F02 750Li and will be picking up my 335 GT on Monday. Quite frankly, the only thing I miss about the older cars is the build quality. The E39 went 6 years before it started rattling, while everything since has rattled in a matter of months. They don't drive any better. The M62 is inferior to the S63/N63 and N55 in every way. The E39 540 has crummy recirculating ball steering thats not as good as the F30s. The interiors are cheap looking, with tons of cheap plastic. Lets not even mention the plastic cooling system with the exploding fan.

Look at things for what they are and not what you see through rose colored glasses.

Why would I look at it through rose colored glasses? I never driven an E39 before, so going in I was actually quite skeptical, but I got to say it left its impression on me. Same with my E90, driving it after 6 months.

I think BMW needs to adjust it's throttle calibration - the mechanical throttle control was probably what was so nice about that M62. The F30 has much more cheap plastic than the E39 so I respectfully disagree.

BMWs are not known for good cooling systems - E36, E46, E38, E39, E90. Every single generation that I'm familiar with is known for garbage cooling systems. If their past history is any indication, I would expect F30s in the next few years with some miles on them to have the same cooling issues.

But I'm not going to pretend like an old 540I is a remotely reliable car, which wasn't a point I was going into.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by bahasad

Why would I look at it through rose colored glasses? I never driven an E39 before, so going in I was actually quite skeptical, but I got to say it left its impression on me. Same with my E90, driving it after 6 months.

I think BMW needs to adjust it's throttle calibration - the mechanical throttle control was probably what was so nice about that M62. The F30 has much more cheap plastic than the E39 so I respectfully disagree.

It was considered the best sport sedan in the world for a long time. You probably heard that and in the back of your mind, thats what you wanted to seeing.

The M62TU had drive by wire. No mechanical linkage on anything built after 9/98.

The F30s interior plastic is nowhere near as cheap as the E39s. I've snapped half a dozen interior door handles in the E39. Cheap chrome plated plastic. The E39 is when BMWs interiors fell behind the competition. While Benz and Audi were using leather, metal and wood in their interiors, BMW was using cheap plastic and garbage veneers.