[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

I didn't have a BMW before, so I cannot compare with E90, but you are suggesting that relative to F30 at, say, 140kph, the E90 is quiet?

I don't mind short bursts of wind noise, but 330d or 328i or 335i is a car you drive at high speeds on the highway - maybe for 1-2 hours if the commute is long enough. 2 hours of serious swooshing is not what I imagine being "premium".

You indicated the E90/92 was similarly noisy which I totally disagree with. I find my F30 to be quieter in all areas except for wind noise. My E90's were very tight and although I'm not suggesting they would not have wind noise at excessive speeds, they certainly did not have wind noise like the F30. As indicated many times before, my F30's wind noise becomes apparent at 80 kph and gets increasingly worse the faster I go. Living where I do, I rarely am able to drive at 140kph where our maximum speed limits are 110, not that I never exceed it. When I said short bursts of noise, I was talking about engine noise in the 328 under full throttle and had nothing to do with the wind noise. Take the wind noise out of the equation and I would consider the 328 to be a premium sedan.

[F30 Epal]

*Knocks on wood*

Just got my '14 320i and I'm not hearing any of the problems that some of you guys are having in here.

[lightyear36]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

I find my F30 to be quieter in all areas except for wind noise. My E90's were very tight and although I'm not suggesting they would not have wind noise at excessive speeds, they certainly did not have wind noise like the F30.

What was it like? Did the E90 have less wind noise at the same speed? Did the noise have a different pattern at the same speed? Was it less perceptible because E90 was louder in other areas (overlapping)?

Originally Posted by bluemark81

When I said short bursts of noise, I was talking about engine noise in the 328 under full throttle and had nothing to do with the wind noise.

I understand what you are saying, I got you right.

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Take the wind noise out of the equation and I would consider the 328 to be a premium sedan.

Fully agree. The way BMW ticks they should at least have offered an aftermarket insulation (or a factory option) long time ago.

Originally Posted by bluemark81

As indicated many times before, my F30's wind noise becomes apparent at 80 kph and gets increasingly worse the faster I go. Living where I do, I rarely am able to drive at 140kph where our maximum speed limits are 110, not that I never exceed it.

Well, due to speed limits you are luckier than me. At 100-110 kph the wind noise is not THAT wild as at 200kph, and I drive the latter speed with the F30 (legal here). In fact, this COULD have been a factor in BMW's calculations - many countries having speed limits, therefore perceiving only slight to moderate wind noise and never complaining.

[lightyear36]

Originally Posted by F30 Epal

*Knocks on wood*

Just got my '14 320i and I'm not hearing any of the problems that some of you guys are having in here.

Tell me what max speed you tried and what part of the car was the loudest at that speed (tires / engine / wind?).

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by F30 Epal

*Knocks on wood*

Just got my '14 320i and I'm not hearing any of the problems that some of you guys are having in here.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

What was it like? Did the E90 have less wind noise at the same speed? Did the noise have a different pattern at the same speed? Was it less perceptible because E90 was louder in other areas (overlapping)?

My E90's did not have wind noise and it was not because other noise drowned it out. So, yes, they had less wind noise at the same speeds.

Originally Posted by lightyear36

Fully agree. The way BMW ticks they should at least have offered an aftermarket insulation (or a factory option) long time ago.

No, they should have engineered it properly in the first place so we wouldn't be having this discussion. Regardless what anyone says, the wind noise we are experiencing is abnormal and should not be present on any car built in the past decade.

Originally Posted by lightyear36

Well, due to speed limits you are luckier than me. At 100-110 kph the wind noise is not THAT wild as at 200kph, and I drive the latter speed with the F30 (legal here). In fact, this COULD have been a factor in BMW's calculations - many countries having speed limits, therefore perceiving only slight to moderate wind noise and never complaining.

My guess is that the US purchases more 3's than perhaps any other country. Their maximum speed limits in several states is 70 or 75 mph (112 to 120 kph). If BMW used this speed as a basis for sound proofing, we would again, not be having these discussions. I am skeptical of those claiming they have no wind noise. For one, perhaps their previous car suffered from wind noise so there is not a proper baseline in which to measure, or two, they are not as sensitive to wind noise as a few of us are. I don't know, but it would be great if someone who has wind noise could connect with someone who claims they don't to do a comparison. Surely there are some in the larger cities that could connect to do this? This would put to rest a lot of this discussion because, if some cars do not have it, then, we know there is a fix. If they do have it, well, we might be stuck with it as this would pretty much confirm it is an inherent design flaw.

[dL.]

For those that have wind noise issue, does it occur everytime in any situation or road conditions?

dL

[lightyear36]

Originally Posted by dL.

For those that have wind noise issue, does it occur everytime in any situation or road conditions?

dL

As it's a WIND noise, its intensity depends on whether you have a tail or head wind. As for the rest - yes, in any situation it is reliably reproducible.

[metrathon]

... and another bites the dust. This time is a 2014 http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884774

"[...] And, the 335i has a lot of wind noise on freeway (compared to Audi S4. I know F10 is very quiet). From what I research, this is normal on F30? This sounds cheap to me. [...]"

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by metrathon

... and another bites the dust. This time is a 2014 http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884774

"[...] And, the 335i has a lot of wind noise on freeway (compared to Audi S4. I know F10 is very quiet). From what I research, this is normal on F30? This sounds cheap to me. [...]"

I wonder if BMW or even their dealers pay attention or care about these forums?

[lightyear36]

I re-read the whole thread again. There was a good suggestion at the beginning to personally contact the BMW headquarters in the respective country and notify them of the issue. This is what I'm going to do once I've test-driven an F10 for comparison. I encourage everybody to do the same.

Next week the IAA exhibition in Frankfurt is opening. An authoritative German forum is gathering questions to BMW that would be presented to them during this exhibition. The noise wind issue is there as well. Most probably they will answer they are "unaware" of it (therefore personal notification is important).

Did anyone from the "noisy" group manage to sit in a car from the "quiet" group?

[OC40]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

I re-read the whole thread again. There was a good suggestion at the beginning to personally contact the BMW headquarters in the respective country and notify them of the issue. This is what I'm going to do once I've test-driven an F10 for comparison. I encourage everybody to do the same.

Next week the IAA exhibition in Frankfurt is opening. An authoritative German forum is gathering questions to BMW that would be presented to them during this exhibition. The noise wind issue is there as well. Most probably they will answer they are "unaware" of it (therefore personal notification is important).

Did anyone from the "noisy" group manage to sit in a car from the "quiet" group?

I had a loaner a few months back that was absolutely quiet. I could not hear a damn thing outside of the cabin.

I dropped my car off yesterday to replace the cooling fan and address the steering wheel squeak. I reiterated to my SA that the wind noise becomes exponentially greater at 50+ mph. We shall see.

[EJIB]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

I re-read the whole thread again. There was a good suggestion at the beginning to personally contact the BMW headquarters in the respective country and notify them of the issue. This is what I'm going to do once I've test-driven an F10 for comparison. I encourage everybody to do the same.

Next week the IAA exhibition in Frankfurt is opening. An authoritative German forum is gathering questions to BMW that would be presented to them during this exhibition. The noise wind issue is there as well. Most probably they will answer they are "unaware" of it (therefore personal notification is important).

Did anyone from the "noisy" group manage to sit in a car from the "quiet" group?

Please keep us posted on any related outcome. Consider me one of the 'victims'. In my case a BMW product engineer drove with the car and finally confirmed as 'within specs'. Personally I believe Wind Noise is Top Nr 1 issue to solve retro-active as it is below quality levels IMHO. I also believe that in general the F30 is superior in many aspects, including quieter drive train and motor noise, therefore bringing wind noise automatically to the foreground. However, comparing F30 to other cars (former E90 or A4 / Merc C) the wind noise issue scores worse. Clearly another (guess cheaper) sealing has being used. In my case it looks as the window sealing (Top around B style) is a major concern. I can improve by sticking small spacer behind the sealing. What is remaining then is the inherent wind generated sound around the body at speeds above 70 mph. Also interesting: when wind conditions are optimal (no wind), the car then scores acceptable. The least wind (no matter from which direction) is causing body wind noise around the cabine which should be improved IMO by better insulating cabine and doors. This all shows that R&D has been done mainly in 'static' wind tunnels (wind coming from car front but I'm no expert). Wind from other directions causes well noticeable body wind noise. (= to improve !)
Interesting: If other owners notice wind noise at B pillar, try to open sunroof and listen around B pillar. If a problem around B pillar it will be better noticeable due to under pressuring cabine.
However the noise issue is quiet disturbing (and below BMW QL Imo), I'm generally still impressed about the F30.
Therefore, I still think a TSB should be issued to solve the wind noise problems.
Greetz to all readers

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by EJIB

Please keep us posted on any related outcome. Consider me one of the 'victims'. In my case a BMW product engineer drove with the car and finally confirmed as 'within specs'. Personally I believe Wind Noise is Top Nr 1 issue to solve retro-active as it is below quality levels IMHO. I also believe that in general the F30 is superior in many aspects, including quieter drive train and motor noise, therefore bringing wind noise automatically to the foreground. However, comparing F30 to other cars (former E90 or A4 / Merc C) the wind noise issue scores worse. Clearly another (guess cheaper) sealing has being used. In my case it looks as the window sealing (Top around B style) is a major concern. I can improve by sticking small spacer behind the sealing. What is remaining then is the inherent wind generated sound around the body at speeds above 70 mph. Also interesting: when wind conditions are optimal (no wind), the car then scores acceptable. The least wind (no matter from which direction) is causing body wind noise around the cabine which should be improved IMO by better insulating cabine and doors. This all shows that R&D has been done mainly in 'static' wind tunnels (wind coming from car front but I'm no expert). Wind from other directions causes well noticeable body wind noise. (= to improve !)
Interesting: If other owners notice wind noise at B pillar, try to open sunroof and listen around B pillar. If a problem around B pillar it will be better noticeable due to under pressuring cabine.
However the noise issue is quiet disturbing (and below BMW QL Imo), I'm generally still impressed about the F30.
Therefore, I still think a TSB should be issued to solve the wind noise problems.
Greetz to all readers

I think I noted in one of my earlier posts that the wind noise drastically increases when I tilt my sunroof. If I open it altogether, I can't really tell as it is altogether too noisy then. I suspect what is happening when I tilt the sunroof is a Venturi effect of more air being pulled through around the b-pillar due the the creation of a vacuum or lower pressure within the cabin. I certainly pointed this out to my dealer.

[EJIB]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

I think I noted in one of my earlier posts that the wind noise drastically increases when I tilt my sunroof. If I open it altogether, I can't really tell as it is altogether too noisy then. I suspect what is happening when I tilt the sunroof is a Venturi effect of more air being pulled through around the b-pillar due the the creation of a vacuum or lower pressure within the cabin. I certainly pointed this out to my dealer.

Indeed bluemark81, you're right. It shows how to detect where the noise is coming from. What was the outcome of the dealer ?

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by EJIB

Indeed bluemark81, you're right. It shows how to detect where the noise is coming from. What was the outcome of the dealer ?

Lol, they replaced my windshield rain gutters. Hardly where I noted the noise was from, yet they indicated they fixed the problem and that it was a result of a PUMA incident #. I told them I was aware of that issue and I doubt it fixed the issue. They apparently test drove the car and all ok. Well, I went to pick the car up and all not ok. It never fixed a thing. I have a problem when people don't listen to me.

[Roki_014]

what pisses me off about my f30 is if you roll down the window few inches and you closs the door the glass slams so much and it just sounds and feels cheap, had 5 series loaner and the x1 and their doors and glass in the door doesntr slam and the doors feel much more expansive, this really sucks i know its not the 5 series but its the 50+ k car

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Roki_014

what pisses me off about my f30 is if you roll down the window few inches and you closs the door the glass slams so much and it just sounds and feels cheap, had 5 series loaner and the x1 and their doors and glass in the door doesntr slam and the doors feel much more expansive, this really sucks i know its not the 5 series but its the 50+ k car

I've noticed this too. Me E90's were very solid when doing this. Nothing at all felt lose or cheap.

[Roki_014]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

I've noticed this too. Me E90's were very solid when doing this. Nothing at all felt lose or cheap.

true, my friend had 2009 328 and i remember the doors were so much better built and much more expensive looking and also felt much stronger than the f30 it sux, prices up quality down because of quantity

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by F30 Epal

*Knocks on wood*

Just got my '14 320i and I'm not hearing any of the problems that some of you guys are having in here.

I notice you are in SoCal. I don't know where exactly in SoCal you are but I suspect there are many other F30 members close enough to you. Would you be willing to let another F30 owner that has the wind noise issue go with you for a drive to compare cars? OC40 is in Irvine, CA. Metrathon is in Vista, CA., Frogman is also in SoCal.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Roki_014

true, my friend had 2009 328 and i remember the doors were so much better built and much more expensive looking and also felt much stronger than the f30 it sux, prices up quality down because of quantity

Quantity? They are selling more 3series than ever.

[Roki_014]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Quantity? They are selling more 3series than ever.

yea i meant to say because of how much they are selling , bigger quantity lower quality , and us consumers are still buying it either they are smarter or we are dummer or both