[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I don't agree with them, but I also find it far removed with the validity of your point as well.

I am sorry, but the LFA does little for Lexus. The IS-F is a better story as it gave 85-90% percent of the E90 M3 experience. That to me is more compelling and relevant. Lexus' attempt at a hyper car is a flawed one and outclassed by it's competition. BMW does not have a hyper car offering, that does not mean it fails in anyway just because Lexus does.

Some of Lexus products really are Toyotas, that's not an opinion. The Es350 is now largely an Avalon, the CT is a fair bit based on Prius bones, the LX SUV is a re-grilled Landcruiser. Now saying ALL Lexus' are Toyotas, that is simply an incorrect statement.

The LFA is not a failure because the car was not built to be the best hyper car it was built to learn about production technologies for Lexus. Many processes in building the LFA will be used much much later in building mass produced sports cars. If you read about the production of the LFA you will understand why Lexus built this car. It wasn't about the numbers at all. If it was I am sure with all the Toyota money they could have built the fastest car if they wanted to.

While the ES/Avalon and LX and Landcruiser are very similiar cars the CT and Prius while having similiar platforms drive fairly differently. The CT is a sportier handling car than the Prius.
Cars having similiar or same platforms can drive very differently depending on the cars setup. For example have you driven an A4 and S4? Both these cars are built on same platform but due to suspension setup and sport diff these cars handle very very differently.
Also take the Porsche Cayenne and VW Toureg. The Cayenne GTS/Turbo can go around the Ring as fast as most sedans and handles phenomenal but then you drive the Toureg and it is a boat. This is a perfect example where the two cars/suvs are built on the same platform but drive vastly different.

The point of Lexus having a hyper car that sold out and BMW doesn't have one is that at least Lexus has the balls to build one where as BMW still has to grow some. Until BMW grows some balls maybe some of these guys should appreciate what the competition is doing instead of just saying the crap like below since as a manufacturer BMW still hasn't been able to produce anything that competes with the LFA and R8.

You can disagree all you want but the main point is that BMW still doesn't have competitive car to R8 and LFA end of discussion.

Originally Posted by Frank_NJ

Simply said BMW is a BMW where a Lexus is a fancy Toyota. They can try but never will come close to the bench mark of the 3 series.

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about Jamesons. BMW owners generalizing about Lexus being a Toyota or Audi being a VW.

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW

BMW owners generalizing about Lexus being a Toyota or Audi being a VW.

Audi being VW is totally silly and we just use it to p*ss off people owning them. Reason is that Auto Union existed before VW was even born. When BMW releases next 1 series on FWD platform which it will share with MINI, nobody will say that MINI is just rebadged BMW, because MINI existed long before it went under BMW.

Lexus, on the other hand, is simply a Toyota. Always was and always will be. What the f*ck was Lexus before 1988? Nothing. Who produced first Lexus? Toyota. What IS Lexus today? Toyota. Sorry, those are simple facts.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

Audi being VW is totally silly and we just use it to p*ss off people owning them. Reason is that Auto Union existed before VW was even born. When BMW releases next 1 series on FWD platform which it will share with MINI, nobody will say that MINI is just rebadged BMW, because MINI existed long before it went under BMW.

Lexus, on the other hand, is simply a Toyota. Always was and always will be. What the f*ck was Lexus before 1988? Nothing. Who produced first Lexus? Toyota. What IS Lexus today? Toyota. Sorry, those are simple facts.

Agree.

The Lexus SC300/400 was the Toyota Soarer in Japan, the IS300 was brought over from being the Altezza in Japan. These are not opinions.

Blanket statements aren't great, but being so reactive to them just eggs them on.

But there is some truth to those statements like mentioned above.

[vols1]

The argument that a Lexus is a Toyota or an Audi is a VW is irrelevant to me. It is only used to diminish the brand by haters. This topic starts as a comparison between two vehicles but degrades into a Lexus is a Toyota argument. Judge the vehicle on its own merits when we get to test drive an IS and how it fits what you want in a car at your price point.

[normsbimmer]

Remember guys, BMW and Toyota just teamed up for a project. Imagine a BMW with Toyota reliability? Or, a Toyota/Lexus with BMW driving dynamics? Last time the Germans and Japs got together it took multiple nations to stop them. I'm excited to see what will come from this joint venture.

[bimmer_335]

you gotta give it to him for his honesty!!!!

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

Audi being VW is totally silly and we just use it to p*ss off people owning them. Reason is that Auto Union existed before VW was even born. When BMW releases next 1 series on FWD platform which it will share with MINI, nobody will say that MINI is just rebadged BMW, because MINI existed long before it went under BMW.

Lexus, on the other hand, is simply a Toyota. Always was and always will be. What the f*ck was Lexus before 1988? Nothing. Who produced first Lexus? Toyota. What IS Lexus today? Toyota. Sorry, those are simple facts.

This it OT for a BMW board but Audi has been a subsidiary of Volkswagen since 1965. VW and Audi have shared the same platform and engines across several models many of almost 50 years. The Audi A8 and VW Phaeton had the same D Series platform; the Audi Q7 and VW Touareg both used the same PL71 platform; the A4 and the VW Passat shared the same B5 platform; the Audi A3, TT and the VW Golf and Jetta all use the A Series platform... etc.

Going forward, the new Modular Transverse Matrix or MQB (for Modularer Querbaukasten) platform will be used by both the Golf and A3. For these and other cars, VW will further standardize parts like axles, steering columns, chassis, etc., to lower costs and also allow them to produce Audis nd VWs at the same plant.

You can cite back to the Auto Union days beginning in the 1930's to point out Audi is it's own company, but that's ancient history. As far as today and tomorrow are concerned, Audi to VW is like Lexus to Toyota. And no matter how silly you think that is, it is the way things are and will be.

[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

This it OT for a BMW board but Audi has been a subsidiary of Volkswagen since 1965. VW and Audi have shared the same platform and engines across several models many of almost 50 years. The Audi A8 and VW Phaeton had the same D Series platform; the Audi Q7 and VW Touareg both used the same PL71 platform; the A4 and the VW Passat shared the same B5 platform; the Audi A3, TT and the VW Golf and Jetta all use the A Series platform... etc.

Going forward, the new Modular Transverse Matrix or MQB (for Modularer Querbaukasten) platform will be used by both the Golf and A3. For these and other cars, VW will further standardize parts like axles, steering columns, chassis, etc., to lower costs and also allow them to produce Audis nd VWs at the same plant.

You can cite back to the Auto Union days beginning in the 1930's to point out Audi is it's own company, but that's ancient history. As far as today and tomorrow are concerned, Audi to VW is like Lexus to Toyota. And no matter how silly you think that is, it is the way things are and will be.

Audi/VW and Porsche share the Q7/Toureg/Cayenne platform so does that make Audi also a Porsche? Nope so why does it make it a VW? Also the new Porsche Macan will use the MLB platform so again does it make the Porsche a VW? Nope.

If you have driven any of these you would understand that even if they used the same platform it doesn't make them the same cars as I said the Q7/Toureg and Cayenne drive vastly different. So will the Macan and Q5.

Porsche/Bentley and Audi will be sharing the MSB platform but these cars again will drive vastly different. So does that make the Audi a Bentley or Porsche? Not in my books unless they drive the same.

The A3 and Golf I would have to agree with you that they drive similiar but that said they are not the same cars as the engine is not the same and one is FWD and the other is AWD. The Audi TT also uses the A platform but if you think the TT drives anything like the Golf or A3 your out of your mind.

Also later BMW is going to be making a sport car with Toyota so does that mean that BMW will be a Toyota? Also the Mini uses gasoline engines from Peugot. Does that make the Mini a Peugot?

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...ta_86_platform

Do you think the BMW and Toyota sport cars will drive the same? I don't but if you do than you are going to have to deal with other forum poster on here and you are on your own.

If you think that the Porsches/Audi's and VW drive the same then obvious that you haven't driven any of these cars. Platform sharing doesn't mean anything if the cars don't drive the same.

That said Audi will only share the MQB with VW in the A3/Golf and then Audi will only use the MLB which it will share with Porsche.

Audi may also use the MSB which the Panamera is based on to produce an A9 but that is not solid.

So Audi will share more platforms with Porsche than with VW so are Audi's Porsches? Again the answer is no because these cars will not drive the same.
So if you want to say an Audi is a VW than I can say an Audi is a Porsche and we or at least I know that isn't true.

[BMWinGE]

^

[hanizh]

This is nothing close to the F30..

[dreamspeed]

Good or bad, the point is companies like Toyota, Audi and even Nissan (with the GTR). Has come out with a small volume halo car while BMW has not.

For those that say a BMW is a BMW while a Lexus is just a Toyota... Well just give it some time. Platform sharing is necessity in order to be cost competitive.

Don't be surprised one day when someone says a BMW is just a MINI and a Rolls is just a BMW

Do I want that to happen? No. Do I think it will happen eventually? Yes

[shoptb]

Isn't this everyone's goal? I saw this car in person at NAIAS in Detroit, and it's pretty darn ugly. Lexus is a snoozer brand; I don't believe that they understand the fundamentals of why the 3-Series is on top in the first place.