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      11-17-2017, 05:57 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
You can speed it up if you want to drop your car off, instead of waiting for it to be collected. Once you've given notice and it's been passed onto the collection company, BCA, you can just drop it off as soon as you like at one of their auctions, instead of waiting for collection. I opted to do that as the date they gave me was a couple of weeks after my new car arrived.
I tried this. Asked the lady on the phone when arranging the collection and she told me that you can't do this as the car need's to be reviewed before it reaches the auction site. I told her I had read otherwise, but she wad adamant. So unfortunately I have to get home for 3pm today for the car to be looked at and taken...
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      11-17-2017, 07:56 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by rokut View Post
I tried this. Asked the lady on the phone when arranging the collection and she told me that you can't do this as the car need's to be reviewed before it reaches the auction site. I told her I had read otherwise, but she wad adamant. So unfortunately I have to get home for 3pm today for the car to be looked at and taken...
Mine was an Audi, not a BMW, maybe the rules are different. Both use BCA.

Sure I've read of BMW owners on here doing exactly exactly the same though. I don't think it's something that is commonplace, and I did have to push a little saying the lead times from notice to collection weren't good enough. But, it didn't seem too hard and there seemed to be others there doing the same.
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      11-17-2017, 08:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
Pretty much all cars will be in negative equity before the end of the term, that's how PCPs work.

There was another thread where many people confirmed they bought their carat the end of the PCP so I'm not sure how real the case of significant negative at the end of a PCP such that you would VT actually is.
Don't believe BMW trade in values.

And this raises the question, if the car was in negative equity, why did you not buy it back?
Not exactly sure what you are asking. Why would I buy the car back just because it was in negative equity. I would still have to buy it at the full finance owed price.

Unless you mean buy it back from BCA after VT, which would still mean paying market value, or trade value at least. Anyway, it's irrelevant as you generally can't buy them back at auction as VT'd cars go to closed auctions, where for VAG, only their own dealers can attend, same for BMW. Maybe some high milers go into public auction, but wouldn't be interested in one of those.
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      11-17-2017, 08:36 AM   #26
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Not exactly sure what you are asking. Why would I buy the car back just because it was in negative equity. I would still have to buy it at the full finance owed price.

Unless you mean buy it back from BCA after VT, which would still mean paying market value, or trade value at least. Anyway, it's irrelevant as you generally can't buy them back at auction as VT'd cars go to closed auctions, where for VAG, only their own dealers can attend, same for BMW. Maybe some high milers go into public auction, but wouldn't be interested in one of those.
I was referring more to end of PCP but I guess the same applies to VT (and obviously after the settlement points). Refer to my earlier posts.

People keep saying that they are getting rid of vehicles that are in negative equity. I'm still questioning if the negative equity position is genuinely true.
If it is, then you would be able to hand a car back, and buy back exactly the same spec car for less than the finance settlement. I don't think anyone has reported doing this, or as you say even can do this, as the cars are not accessible to the public. Therefore, neg equity is a bit of a myth.
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      11-17-2017, 09:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
I was referring more to end of PCP but I guess the same applies to VT (and obviously after the settlement points). Refer to my earlier posts.

People keep saying that they are getting rid of vehicles that are in negative equity. I'm still questioning if the negative equity position is genuinely true.
If it is, then you would be able to hand a car back, and buy back exactly the same spec car for less than the finance settlement. I don't think anyone has reported doing this, or as you say even can do this, as the cars are not accessible to the public. Therefore, neg equity is a bit of a myth.
Well, over 3 years into a 4-year agreement I'm pretty sure I couldn't sell my car privately for the finance outstanding on it so to my simple mind I'm in negative equity; really wish it was all a myth but somehow I don't think it is!
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      11-17-2017, 09:19 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
I was referring more to end of PCP but I guess the same applies to VT (and obviously after the settlement points). Refer to my earlier posts.

People keep saying that they are getting rid of vehicles that are in negative equity. I'm still questioning if the negative equity position is genuinely true.
If it is, then you would be able to hand a car back, and buy back exactly the same spec car for less than the finance settlement. I don't think anyone has reported doing this, or as you say even can do this, as the cars are not accessible to the public. Therefore, neg equity is a bit of a myth.
It isn't a myth. You are assuming that people are assessing the negative equity based upon trade in price. I'm sure you are right for some, but I don't do that. I judge it on how much I could get for it, or how much it would cost me to buy the same.

I have a family friend that runs a high end car dealership and he will sell cars for me for £500 sale or return. This basically means I get more than I would even in a private sale. I get pretty close to dealer price.

My Audi was even in negative equity using that measure, so I sent it back.

My wife's car wasn't in the same financial position so he's selling that for us now.

https://www.simonjamescars.co.uk/vol...yshire-6221005

I try and weigh up the best financial approach and never look one dimensionally.

My own car has zero deposit as the interest rate was very low and I'm likely to want to change it in a couple of years.

We put £20k into my wife's car as the interest was higher we know we want to keep it 6-7 years.
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      11-17-2017, 10:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
Well, over 3 years into a 4-year agreement I'm pretty sure I couldn't sell my car privately for the finance outstanding on it so to my simple mind I'm in negative equity; really wish it was all a myth but somehow I don't think it is!
At 3 years into a 4 year agreement, you'd expect exactly that. At the 4 years point though you'd expect it to be pretty close to the outstanding balance.

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Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
It isn't a myth. You are assuming that people are assessing the negative equity based upon trade in price. I'm sure you are right for some, but I don't do that. I judge it on how much I could get for it, or how much it would cost me to buy the same.
Agreed, I think people are basing it on trade in price which presents a false picture. However, if at the end of a PCP, the finance settlement is more than the replacement cost of the same spec vehicle, one would hand the vehicle back and go and buy the same spec vehicle second hand again keeping the cash difference. I've never heard of anyone doing this.
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      11-17-2017, 10:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
Agreed, I think people are basing it on trade in price which presents a false picture. However, if at the end of a PCP, the finance settlement is more than the replacement cost of the same spec vehicle, one would hand the vehicle back and go and buy the same spec vehicle second hand again keeping the cash difference. I've never heard of anyone doing this.
No, because most people will just go out and order a new one. Not too many people choose to pay the balloon and keep the car if it is worth significantly less than the balloon and are unlikely to go and look for a similar one.

I'm trying my best to look at this neutrally, from the different points of views, including the people who want a new car and don't want to keep them long term, those that use pcp's as an alternative to leasing, those that do want to keep them and those that can no longer afford either so have a different decision to make.

Your opinions seem only to only take into account your own point of view, long term ownership with no desire to buy a new car and cash rich with a balloon payment sat waiting in the bank at at the end. Not everyone is the same.
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      11-17-2017, 12:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
Well, over 3 years into a 4-year agreement I'm pretty sure I couldn't sell my car privately for the finance outstanding on it so to my simple mind I'm in negative equity; really wish it was all a myth but somehow I don't think it is!
At 3 years into a 4 year agreement, you'd expect exactly that. At the 4 years point though you'd expect it to be pretty close to the outstanding balance.
You might be right about the negative equity disappearing by the end of the agreement - not convinced personally but only time will tell!

However, it most certainly does exist at the moment in the sense I couldn't sell the car and cover all of the outstanding finance; therefore, if I chose to VT (which I could) I don't think I'd be doing so based on some mythical negative equity - it's very real as far as I'm concerned!
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      11-17-2017, 01:00 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
You might be right about the negative equity disappearing by the end of the agreement - not convinced personally but only time will tell!

However, it most certainly does exist at the moment in the sense I couldn't sell the car and cover all of the outstanding finance; therefore, if I chose to VT (which I could) I don't think I'd be doing so based on some mythical negative equity - it's very real as far as I'm concerned!
I think we are agreeing. Itís mainly because you are part through a term that the advantage is understandably with the finance co.

The reason I say neg equity is a bit of a myth is that people would hand back cars early or a the end of a pcp and buy the same car again cheaper to profit.
I heard no evidence this happens or could even be done. This incidentally was the subject I was originally replying to.

There was a thread recently that asked bout people buying their car at the end of a pcp and the experience of negative equity at that time. Most of not all had bought. This underpins my belief that if negative equity did exist at the end of a term it was minimal enough not to be a factor.

Alex440 Ďs argument is based the belief that there are real cases of negative equity at he end of term. Again, yet to see the evidence to support this view.
In his case he takes advantage of the VT provision coupled with a pcp to effectively lease a car with very low or no deposit. As this is a ďleasingĒ option not a purchase option it has little relevance to the subject as equity doesnít come into play. This similarly applies to scenarios where people donít have the ballon paymen. They are never buying, just renting.
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      11-17-2017, 01:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
I think we are agreeing. It’s mainly because you are part through a term that the advantage is understandably with the finance co.

The reason I say neg equity is a bit of a myth is that people would hand back cars early or a the end of a pcp and buy the same car again cheaper to profit.
I heard no evidence this happens or could even be done. This incidentally was the subject I was originally replying to.

There was a thread recently that asked bout people buying their car at the end of a pcp and the experience of negative equity at that time. Most of not all had bought. This underpins my belief that if negative equity did exist at the end of a term it was minimal enough not to be a factor.

Alex440 ‘s argument is based the belief that there are real cases of negative equity at he end of term. Again, yet to see the evidence to support this view.
In his case he takes advantage of the VT provision coupled with a pcp to effectively lease a car with very low or no deposit. As this is a “leasing” option not a purchase option it has little relevance to the subject as equity doesn’t come into play. This similarly applies to scenarios where people don’t have the ballon paymen. They are never buying, just renting.
No I wasn't, I was saying that my car was in real negative equity at the time I VT'd, 33 months into a 48 month pcp.

Negative equity some for can still be reasonably based on the trade in price. Private sale price or cost of buying the same car can be irrelevant for a lot of people. If you are wanting a new car at the end of your pcp, as I understand the majority do, the cost of buying the same car is irrelevant.

The only relevance is how much you can get for it, either at trade or private sale price. Unless you have the financial ability to buy the car and sell it privately as well as signing up for a new pcp at the same time, private sale price is irrelevant, trade is all that counts. Also tying up dates with a new car order and private sale can be tricky.
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      11-17-2017, 02:29 PM   #34
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No I wasn't, I was saying that my car was in real negative equity at the time I VT'd, 33 months into a 48 month pcp.
Thatís part way through the term which as I have always said, is entirely expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post

The only relevance is how much you can get for it, either at trade or private sale price. Unless you have the financial ability to buy the car and sell it privately as well as signing up for a new pcp at the same time, private sale price is irrelevant, trade is all that counts. Also tying up dates with a new car order and private sale can be tricky.
The financial ability comes from having the money to pay the ballon.
I have always talked about buying cars not renting them which is what you are doing if you opt for a new car at the end of term. Therefore, if you were intending to buy, the capital should be there.

The subject being discussed was someone asking if they could buy their VTd car back because the market value tanked. Not go and buy a new one. Itís pretty much the same situation as being at the end of a pcp term and the unlikely event that the GFV is significantly less than the market value of the vehicle. If this was a real probability you would hand the car back and buy it at auction or wherever cheaper with the money you were going to pay the ballon with. Now please stop clouding the issue with irrelevant scenarios.
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      11-17-2017, 02:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
That’s part way through the term which as I have always said, is entirely expected.



The financial ability comes from having the money to pay the ballon.
I have always talked about buying cars not renting them which is what you are doing if you opt for a new car at the end of term. Therefore, if you were intending to buy, the capital should be there.

The subject being discussed was someone asking if they could buy their VTd car back because the market value tanked. Not go and buy a new one. It’s pretty much the same situation as being at the end of a pcp term and the unlikely event that the GFV is significantly less than the market value of the vehicle. If this was a real probability you would hand the car back and buy it at auction or wherever cheaper with the money you were going to pay the ballon with. Now please stop clouding the issue with irrelevant scenarios.
I beg to differ. I answered the question clearly of whether or not you can buy your VT'd car back earlier in the thread. You can't.

The usual waffle about buying, trade or private negative equity calculations etc was all brought back into the conversation by you.

I don't know why I get drawn into your one dimiensional, "this is the way I look at it, therefore it's the best" conversations.

Trade in works best for some for a variety of reasons, buying and selling private, VTing, or paying it off and keeping it for another 5 years, paying cash outright, for others. They all have their benefits, there is no "this way is the best way" and telling people they're calculating their negative equity wrongly is fine once, but give it a rest.
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      11-17-2017, 05:23 PM   #36
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When VTing a car, doex affect your credit rating because you had ended the agreement early?
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      11-17-2017, 06:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
I beg to differ. I answered the question clearly of whether or not you can buy your VT'd car back earlier in the thread. You can't.

The usual waffle about buying, trade or private negative equity calculations etc was all brought back into the conversation by you.

I don't know why I get drawn into your one dimiensional, "this is the way I look at it, therefore it's the best" conversations.

Trade in works best for some for a variety of reasons, buying and selling private, VTing, or paying it off and keeping it for another 5 years, paying cash outright, for others. They all have their benefits, there is no "this way is the best way" and telling people they're calculating their negative equity wrongly is fine once, but give it a rest.
Iím becoming increasingly convinced you either canít read very well or simply choose not to read whatís written.

I have never claimed anyway of funding ownership is better than another.
Feel free to discuss negative equity, but do so with facts rather than your usual unfounded assumptions. Otherwise give it a rest.
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      11-18-2017, 02:48 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
I think we are agreeing. Itís mainly because you are part through a term that the advantage is understandably with the finance co.

The reason I say neg equity is a bit of a myth is that people would hand back cars early or a the end of a pcp and buy the same car again cheaper to profit.
I heard no evidence this happens or could even be done.
I appreciate you started by talking in a context of people being at the end of their PCP agreement but that then got widened out to people who had reached a point where they could VT and all I was saying was negative equity isn't a myth for all those people (as my own situation illustrates).

Whether there will still be negative equity in my car when my agreement finishes in 10 months is debatable. I'm sure the level of any negative equity will reduce but the tide seems to be running against diesels at the moment and I can see residuals suffering a bit as a result; not a complete meltdown but possibly enough to make my car worth a touch less than its GFV at the end of the 4-year PCP.
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      11-18-2017, 02:49 AM   #39
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When VTing a car, doex affect your credit rating because you had ended the agreement early?
No it doesn't!
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      11-18-2017, 02:59 AM   #40
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With all the cars that are going to be worth much less in 2 or 3 years than anticipated when they are VT ed especially diesels when they are returned on a PCP . Will there be some good deals to buy them at dealers etc ?

I guess what I'm trying to assess is could there be an opportunity to buy some good bargains on cars that have been returned on VT.

It may be that I'm not understanding the mechanics of the PCP finance well ....
Probably will be but the sound of this suggests they will have not been looked after, not serviced and in goodness knows what condition!
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      11-20-2017, 07:09 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
Mine was an Audi, not a BMW, maybe the rules are different. Both use BCA.

Sure I've read of BMW owners on here doing exactly exactly the same though. I don't think it's something that is commonplace, and I did have to push a little saying the lead times from notice to collection weren't good enough. But, it didn't seem too hard and there seemed to be others there doing the same.
Yeah, I'm sure it should be possible. Was told a few times by the contact I had that I couldn't do it. Potentially sensed I had £560 + VAT of repairs that are 'required'. I signed for collection, but not the damage and fees so will take it from there...
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