11-05-2012, 08:45 AM | #23 |
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11-05-2012, 09:12 AM | #24 | |
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BMW is far from alone in this, and I haven't tried a single EPS system that provides satisfying feel/feedback like the best hydraulic systems. This includes the Scion FR-S I tested, which, according to most reviewers, has communicative steering. (I thought it was better than the F30's though.) And even Porsche's EPS has been criticized for lack of feedback by some journos. As I understand it, electric motors have high rotational inertia, and are very difficult to "back drive." As a result, the rack simply does not move as much in response to road surface imperfections, hence the lack of feedback. They often don't self-center as naturally, at least in my experience. (Of course, tires play a role in all of this, and I bet my Acura and the F30 would feel better with different tires.) You're right that feedback is distinct from effort, and I think some confuse these and other parameters. While EPS systems tend to lack feedback, they are easy to tune for weight and a linear response to steering inputs, and I would characterize the F30's steering as extremely accurate and precise. My Acura's steering is similar. I think many drivers like these aspects of EPS. As a result, they think the F30 has excellent steering and don't mind the lack of feedback. It bugs me, but unfortunately I'm afraid it's already the "new normal," and we're stuck with it. |
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11-05-2012, 09:15 AM | #25 |
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Driving an E9x today (loaner) vs. my F30 (in service), I'll have to say, I like the electric steering of the F30...when I click it into Sport, it's more weighted and reactive, around the parking lot, in Comfort, it's easier to maneuver.
I think the F30 has done an exemplary job in moving forward...
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11-05-2012, 10:08 AM | #26 |
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I found the steering perfect. In comfort mode its pretty light, but you are not going to gun it around a corner in comfort mode. Now the fun part, once you hit sport mode the steering tightens up very nicely. You will barely notice the steering has tightened until its hammer time. (the transitions are quite seamless betweens modes, but the driving experience is night and day)
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11-05-2012, 02:18 PM | #28 |
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11-06-2012, 06:41 AM | #29 | |
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I have no experience with a Camry or a Lincoln. Joel
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11-06-2012, 06:48 AM | #30 |
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Do you have standard steering or variable sport steering ?
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11-06-2012, 08:23 AM | #31 | |
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We've been discussing the EPS since the beginning of the year and what I've found in reading all of the comments is that steering feel is as subjective as can be. One person will say the F30 steering is as good as in an E90 and another will comment it's lifeless. We should all visit our local dealers, take a drive before buying and make our own decisions. |
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11-06-2012, 08:28 AM | #32 |
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The F10 535i have the electric steering and the 535xi still use the old hydraulic steering, having driven both, there is quite a bit of difference. The hydraulic steering still lighten up at parking lot speed just like the electric steering but it has quite a bit more feedback than the electric. The F30's steering does tighten up in sport mode, but it still lacks feedback. For the non sport line or M-sport models, one cannot select tight steering in the comfort transmssion mode.
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11-06-2012, 08:32 AM | #33 | |
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11-06-2012, 09:43 AM | #35 |
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Standard.
Joel
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11-06-2012, 10:07 AM | #36 |
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2012 328i E92 [10.00] 2013 X5 [0.00] 2013 335i F30 [8.00] 1990 Toyota Previa [0.00] 1997 E36 M3 [10.00] 2011 E92 M3 [0.00] 2011 535i [0.00] |
although the e90 has a heavier steering feel, i think it somewhat lacks feedback as well...here's why, when Im on a corner, I cant feel resistance in my hands when im holding the wheel whereas on my e36, lighter steering feel than the e90, i can feel the wheels pulling the steering wheel. on high speed turns, the e90 feels a little overboosted and can get wobbly..idk, its hard to explain really. i do like how the f30 in sport mode tightens up the steering like the servo on the e92 m3.
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11-12-2012, 02:22 PM | #37 | |
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"Steering feedback is comparable to that of the outgoing 3-series, in spite of the noticeable reduction in effort. " source: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review Other reviewers have said similar. Driving an LCI E92 and the F30 back-to-back over the same familiar loop, I would have to agree (testing in Sport mode). Through the wheel, you can still feel every pebble, every expansion joint, and every little squirm the car makes when you're pushing it. I did feel less feedback through the chassis, but that wasn't a negative for me. It's through the wheel that I want to receive that feedback. And the F30 is lighter-steering, undeniably. It's a longer-wheelbase, wider-track vehicle, with a stiffer chassis but less stiff stock suspension, so steering feel will not be the same, but there's still good feedback. The wheel, after all, is still directly connected to the steering rack. The one thing I did notice is that bumps that would pull the wheel to one side on the E92 (or my E46) didn't seem to torque the wheel as much on the F30. You could still feel the bump just as well as with the E92, but there was less side to side movement of the wheel itself. Could that be perceived less feedback? Perhaps. It could also just be better control. Same for road grooves that tend to pull you left or right - the F30 relays the message just fine, but it's easier to correct. Personally, I'd rather control the direction myself versus having the bumps in the road dictate the direction of my wheels, so for me this is a positive rather than a negative. But "feel" is a personal thing, and some may prefer a heavier-weighted steering. As you pointed out in your post, weight and feel are not the same. I believe some reviewers equated this reduced effort for increased isolation, but the lighter weight is only half of the equation. Car and Driver (along with many other reviewers) got it right, though. Coming from an E46, this was a concern for me, but after much testing I can tell you that the F30 steering feedback is most certainly there; it just takes less effort to point the nose. It's a mental adjustment to come to grips with the lighter feel, but once I made that adjustment and got accustomed to the feel and feedback provided, I find I am quite happy with the steering. |
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11-13-2012, 03:21 PM | #38 |
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Here are some other reviews:
"The steering of the 328i is so light and fingertip easy, the accelerator so delicate underfoot, the gearbox so smooth in its machinations, you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next. " That doesnt sound like a driver's car to me. http://www.bimmerpost.com/2011/11/16...ully-at-heart/ "Fans of BMW's once legendary steering feel will mourn the passing of the fuel-thirstier hydraulic assist. Our test car had the optional variable-ratio electric-assist rack, which provides a 14.5:1 ratio on-center, quickening to 11.2:1 as the wheel passes about 100 degrees in either direction. The effort and heft feel natural enough, but on these smooth, dry roads it transmits no wiggles or twitches to suggest subtle variation in the grip level of the road surface, and the ratio transition feels unnatural in the tightest corners." http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s_first_drive/ |
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11-13-2012, 10:08 PM | #39 |
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"... the suspension and steering still make us smile"
and "If the definition of good steering is that which allows the driver to place the car exactly where desired, the 335i’s still got it. Its clarity is undimmed by the switch to electric assist and a new, optional variable-ratio steering gear..." Car and Driver "...the car feels solid and stable and the steering is as one expects from BMW--accurate and stable." and "...with spot-on steering that provides good road feel without being nervous..." and "A turn of the steering wheel returns a weighty feel, quick response and satisfying feedback" Autoweek "Select Sport mode and you get firmer but far from aggressive vertical body control and the kind of steering weight you’ll need a bit more forearm leverage to get on terms with. But the feedback flowing from tyre sidewall to steering rim is excellent." Autocar "The new electric steering rack steers quickly enough, and gives pleasant amounts of feedback." Autoworld "Steering, brakes, ride quality, grip, handling… Every other aspect of the new 3-series constitutes a proper improvement over the saloon’s predecessor, already a highly involving and entertaining drive." Car Magazine "The steering feel isn’t greatly diminished by the electric assistance, with plenty of communication and good weighting." The Motor Report Obviously this could go on and on, but I think it's abundantly clear that there is no consensus on the new steering being isolated or not providing adequate feedback, as was posted earlier. I am not a professional driver, but I am most recently coming from an E46 on which I clocked over 160,000 km's. This ain't my first rodeo with BMW steering. I very clearly feel the feedback. I can't speak for the universe in general, but obviously many other reviewers also could. |
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11-13-2012, 11:18 PM | #41 |
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You already ordered the car, do yourself a favor and stop reading reviews about it... You drove it (I'm assuming) and liked it enough to order and wait for it, that's all that matters.
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11-13-2012, 11:23 PM | #42 | |
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11-14-2012, 12:29 AM | #43 |
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Government fuel economy, emissions, and safety requirements are the driving force behind many of the changes in vehicle construction and design such as electric steering, brake regeneration, seat belts, air bags, anti-lock brakes, and the list goes on. Even the hood design of the new 3 series, which some have complained about, was the result of new safety requirements to reduce injuries to pedestrians in vehicle accidents.
Government will never stop adding on regulations for vehicle manufacturers so these changes will continue. Welcome to 1984. The future is now. |
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11-14-2012, 07:28 AM | #44 | |
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Yes the F30 has a different feel , but I think all the writing about it makes people think they're gonna end up with something horrible and thats just not true.Yes, It feels different from an E46 or e90 but it isn't close to horrible. Just my opinion |
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