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      08-06-2017, 03:58 AM   #1
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I'd assume the warranty would be void upon remapping.

This morning I came across the Bird's remap for the 435d x drive. Costing a shade over 2 grand and with a 3 year warranty.

A promising 80hp...

Then you have the likes of Evolve Automotive offering 50hp with before and after dyno runs for 600 for the same model.

:
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      08-06-2017, 04:07 AM   #2
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Yes it would void warranty on aspects of the car that they could say the remap could have affected, but not the entire warranty.

However, that's only if they can detect it. I've had a remap on my car since it was 11 months old, now coming up 3 years, and have had warranty work twice on the engine and neither time did the diagnostics computer detect the remap.

I have a DMS remap, but no idea who elses remaps are detectable and those whose aren't though.
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      08-06-2017, 04:31 AM   #3
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Any remap is detectable. If BMW really want to find it they can interrogate the DME and find it. Our DME's have security features that BMW can only unlock to check how many times the unit has been flashed and what with.

AFAIK no remapping outfit has managed to circumnavigate that. Then you have traces left by software install and remove. The pieces can be brought together. A bit like when you delete a file on your PC and then use software to recover the file in full glory despite hitting empty recycle bin.

Heaven forbid you have a warranty claim for the DME. Mine was replaced under warranty for my E92. I guess at that stage a claim would be refused outright.

My thoughts are that Bird's must be offering some kind of insurance in that price. Will drop them an e-mail.
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      08-06-2017, 05:12 AM   #4
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Yes of course, there would be a way, but they don't have time for all that palava at a dealership- they plug it in and computer tells them if it's detecting a remap.
I have a very good relationship at one dealership and they let me watch whilst they did it. And it's been to another one for an issue and again they didn't find it.

So being detectable by someone exhaustively looking is not the same as being detectable under normal dealership working practices.

The Birds remap warranty is provided independently, but the last time I spoke to Kevin he said he was only doing them as part of larger package of upgrades, not as stand alone remaps. That was last autumn though so I guess could have changed.
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      08-06-2017, 05:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
I'd assume the warranty would be void upon remapping.

This morning I came across the Bird's remap for the 435d x drive. Costing a shade over 2000 grand and with a 3 year warranty.

A promising 80hp...

Then you have the likes of Evolve Automotive offering 50hp with before and after dyno runs for 600 for the same model.

:
2000 grand for a remap that's expensive even with a three year warranty

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      08-06-2017, 05:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal027 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
I'd assume the warranty would be void upon remapping.

This morning I came across the Bird's remap for the 435d x drive. Costing a shade over 2000 grand and with a 3 year warranty.

A promising 80hp...

Then you have the likes of Evolve Automotive offering 50hp with before and after dyno runs for 600 for the same model.

:
2000 grand for a remap that's expensive even with a three year warranty

I know but it depends on the terms and conditions.

The other point is... say you did have to make a claim. What's to stop them from saying the remap was not at fault? There is potential for an argument between Bird's and BMW.

Who ultimately wins?
How far does a customer go in establishing blame?
How expensive will it get for the owner and the independent engineers reports saying it was the map?
Would the insurance avoid pay out?
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      08-06-2017, 05:37 AM   #7
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Unfortunately the only true way of not having something traceable is the tuning box. Its a compromise but that's the way to go if detection is a concern. I have been looking at the tdi tuning box myself. Still undecided though.
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      08-06-2017, 05:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal027 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
I'd assume the warranty would be void upon remapping.

This morning I came across the Bird's remap for the 435d x drive. Costing a shade over 2000 grand and with a 3 year warranty.

A promising 80hp...

Then you have the likes of Evolve Automotive offering 50hp with before and after dyno runs for 600 for the same model.

:
2000 grand for a remap that's expensive even with a three year warranty

I know but it depends on the terms and conditions.

The other point is... say you did have to make a claim. What's to stop them from saying the remap was not at fault? There is potential for an argument between Bird's and BMW.

Who ultimately wins?
How far does a customer go in establishing blame?
How expensive will it get for the owner and the independent engineers reports saying it was the map?
Would the insurance avoid pay out?
Yes, and it sounds like a lot of hassle, which for me would immediately take away any sense of peace of mind that you're supposedly paying for.
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      08-06-2017, 05:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Yes of course, there would be a way, but they don't have time for all that palava at a dealership- they plug it in and computer tells them if it's detecting a remap.
Perhaps BMW would require the dealer to carry out a more thorough check if there was a major engine failure, potentially costing many thousands to fix?

I have the impression that household insurers take a similar approach - when paying out for smaller claims, they are fairly relaxed, but when asked to pay tens or hundreds of thousands, they look to see if there are ways to wriggle out of it.
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      08-06-2017, 06:05 AM   #10
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I had a remap on my E92 diesel & they detected it as soon as I took it in for the next service.

I think the chap doing the service must have noticed it wasn't stock & alerted others
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      08-06-2017, 06:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Yes of course, there would be a way, but they don't have time for all that palava at a dealership- they plug it in and computer tells them if it's detecting a remap.
Perhaps BMW would require the dealer to carry out a more thorough check if there was a major engine failure, potentially costing many thousands to fix?

I have the impression that household insurers take a similar approach - when paying out for smaller claims, they are fairly relaxed, but when asked to pay tens or hundreds of thousands, they look to see if there are ways to wriggle out of it.
Yes that's a possibility. I'd guess there are claim limits at which there is further approval and investigation required.
However, something that catastrophic is very unlikely due to a remap, much more likely manufacturing or component issue.

I think the real issue with a remap is several years and tens of thousands of miles down the line when injectors, turbos, drivetrains etc have all had a harder life...

I had mine done around 20k miles, and now at 98k.... I guess I'll be the guinea pig for everyone!
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      08-06-2017, 06:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yodalicious View Post
I had a remap on my E92 diesel & they detected it as soon as I took it in for the next service.

I think the chap doing the service must have noticed it wasn't stock & alerted others
Nah, they just go wth what the computer says.

I'm pretty sure the first time I went in they thought it had been remapped but the computer didn't detect it, so they reprogrammed the engine management system anyway! I took t back to DMS and they reinstalled it and the original issue still wasn't resolved, and so I took it somewhere else and they immediately realised it was the EGR system and replaced it.

But if the computer detects it like with yours, the system also tells them which parts of your car are still covered under warranty and which aren't.
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      08-06-2017, 06:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Yes of course, there would be a way, but they don't have time for all that palava at a dealership- they plug it in and computer tells them if it's detecting a remap.
Perhaps BMW would require the dealer to carry out a more thorough check if there was a major engine failure, potentially costing many thousands to fix?

I have the impression that household insurers take a similar approach - when paying out for smaller claims, they are fairly relaxed, but when asked to pay tens or hundreds of thousands, they look to see if there are ways to wriggle out of it.
Yes that's a possibility. I'd guess there are claim limits at which there is further approval and investigation required.
However, something that catastrophic is very unlikely due to a remap, much more likely manufacturing or component issue.

I think the real issue with a remap is several years and tens of thousands of miles down the line when injectors, turbos, drivetrains etc have all had a harder life...

I had mine done around 20k miles, and now at 98k.... I guess I'll be the guinea pig for everyone!
A very noble thing to do! @ guinea oink

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      08-06-2017, 06:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Yes of course, there would be a way, but they don't have time for all that palava at a dealership- they plug it in and computer tells them if it's detecting a remap.
Perhaps BMW would require the dealer to carry out a more thorough check if there was a major engine failure, potentially costing many thousands to fix?

I have the impression that household insurers take a similar approach - when paying out for smaller claims, they are fairly relaxed, but when asked to pay tens or hundreds of thousands, they look to see if there are ways to wriggle out of it.
Yes that's a possibility. I'd guess there are claim limits at which there is further approval and investigation required.
However, something that catastrophic is very unlikely due to a remap, much more likely manufacturing or component issue.

I think the real issue with a remap is several years and tens of thousands of miles down the line when injectors, turbos, drivetrains etc have all had a harder life...

I had mine done around 20k miles, and now at 98k.... I guess I'll be the guinea pig for everyone!
A very noble thing to do!
Life's too short to worry about things too much!

People will get a remap when not under warranty, but fret about it when they do, yet few people bother to extend a warranty given the chance...

I'm not sure how much intelligent rationale is really being used if I'm honest.
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      08-06-2017, 07:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manivxr View Post
Unfortunately the only true way of not having something traceable is the tuning box. Its a compromise but that's the way to go if detection is a concern. I have been looking at the tdi tuning box myself. Still undecided though.
You might think that, but on these modern engines, they have so many, very accurate sensors that continuously monitor engine parameters. The ECU can determine whether something is normal or not.

For example, those power displays in the idrive, are a function of the ECU seeing airflow into the engine, manifold temperature, exhaust gas temperature, boost pressure, injector duty.....and the list goes on. On modern engines there are even multiple points where this information is gathered. This allows idrive to give a reasonably accurate power display reading.

A clue to how well this sensory data gathering works is how a modern car reacts to a failed sensor. Years ago a single sensor failure would render the car undeliverable, or put it into a severe limp mode where it was barely driveable. Today a sensor can go down, and other than a CEL, you wouldn't even know about it performance wise. Such is the overlap of data.

As a tuning box will only fool a limited number of sensors ( and those are only inputs by the way, outputs are just as telling), the ECU can flag 'suspicious' data.

So don't be so sure that a removed tuning box is undetectable.

But as with a remap as has been mentioned, it would depend on the warranty claim as to how deep they delve. The dealer is often your friend in trying to cover up your warranty condition transgressions, after all, he does benefit financially by being able to carry out the warranty work.
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      08-06-2017, 08:00 AM   #16
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Tuning box simple. Big bhp increase, 5 to 10min to fit or remove job done. I really don't know why anyone who has a modern car within warranty and worried about claims etc would get a full remap these days.
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      08-06-2017, 11:32 AM   #17
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One thing to remember with warranty work is the dealer makes money from it, they are franchises and invoice BMW UK. It would only become an issue it the claim was large and unusual then BMW UK may send their engineers to investigate.
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      08-06-2017, 01:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal027 View Post
2000 grand for a remap that's expensive even with a three year warranty

It seems some people are missing the lulz.

A grand is slang for a thousand. 2000 grand is two million.

For that kind of money, you could buy a new F3X car every month for three years, mod the hell out of it, and throw it away... and still have money left over.
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      08-06-2017, 02:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by rlmesq View Post
It seems some people are missing the lulz.

A grand is slang for a thousand. 2000 grand is two million.

For that kind of money, you could buy a new F3X car every month for three years, mod the hell out of it, and throw it away... and still have money left over.
You got it dude.



Ferrari money for a remap.
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      08-06-2017, 02:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal027 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmesq View Post
It seems some people are missing the lulz.

A grand is slang for a thousand. 2000 grand is two million.

For that kind of money, you could buy a new F3X car every month for three years, mod the hell out of it, and throw it away... and still have money left over.
You got it dude.



Ferrari money for a remap.
My attempt at the lowest form of wit aka sarcasm.
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      08-06-2017, 02:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
I'd assume the warranty would be void upon remapping.

This morning I came across the Bird's remap for the 435d x drive. Costing a shade over 2 grand and with a 3 year warranty.

A promising 80hp...

Then you have the likes of Evolve Automotive offering 50hp with before and after dyno runs for 600 for the same model.

:
Correct.

And don't let anyone tell you they can be hidden.

Go into this with your eyes open
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      08-06-2017, 03:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
My attempt at the lowest form of wit aka sarcasm.
Well I've only hit half a wit as it went over my head.

I'll just pick up my coat on the way out
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