[NISFAN]

Wow!!!! Guy drives an ageing car, doesn't pick up that it is on fire. Suffers significant CONSEQUENTIAL damage as a result of. Expects BMW to put him into a brand new car, but as BMW only offered (still way over what any other manufacturer would cover) a discout amounting to maybe $8,000-$10,000 (including the discount off list, invoice value), which must be close to 30% the value of his destroyed car, he is upset........and he comes on here to whine about it?

[DerekS]

Originally Posted by gthal

I don't believe there is evidence yet that the car malfunctioned or that the cause of the fire was an issue covered under warranty. I also would bet, although I don't know this, that there is an exclusion in the warranty document for fire. The problem is proving what the fire related to.

Thank you for pointing to the obvious question: what was the cause of the fire ? No one on this board has an answer to that question, including the OP.
The fire could have been caused by a rodent chewing through wires in the engine compartment. This would not be the first time such a cause of fire would have occurred.

A friend of mine, who owns a F10-535i, had a recent experience with his car's "add coolant" warning light coming on. He stopped and added 1gal. of water, proceeded further when the light re-appeared, added more coolant, then drove a few more miles before the light came on a 3rd time. He stopped the car and called the BCAA for a tow truck and had the car towed to his BMW dealer. The service manager called back a day later to inform him that a rodent had chewed through the coolant hose ! But there was some good news: BMW would cover the repair cost under warranty !

Rodents are apparently very attracted to the sweet smell of anti-freeze, so for those of you who park your car outside, let this be a caution. If you see squirrels and/or rats nearby, well now you know what could happen. By the way, my friend had always parked his car OUTSIDE his garage (too full of junk), where squirrels were frequently seen !

At this point, it's very dangerous to make any assumptions about the cause of the fire that destroyed the OP's car. I still believe that BMW's final offer was very considerate, given that the car was almost 4 years old, and no cause of the fire had been determined. The bottom line is: there is no proof that the fault was caused by BMW.

[BavarianFanatic]

Yeah, the expectation of any manufacturer covering the gap to a brand new car is a pipe dream. Things happen. There's not always a definitive answer why. Just be glad no one was hurt and that they were willing to work with you as much as they did. I think the fact that you didn't just go find a nice CPO 335d to replace it is very telling. You already had one foot out the door and BMW recognized that. They also judged you well since, low and behold, you immediately hopped on a forum to tell the tale in an attempt to garner support and defame them. Any wonder why they wanted an NDA?

If you intend to do anything with an attorney - for starters, I'm not a fan of such actions. Secondly, you better think twice about leaving this post up. This could (and would) be used against you.

Best of luck in your new XXX. Sorry BMW didn't work out for you.

[EnerJi]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoi

I understand you're upset that it'll cost 16k to go from the car that died to a new car, but again, realized that is a NEW CAR. I'm sure with the sum your insurance company offered you you could have bought a SIMILAR model (IE a car of same year and mileage and equipped), but if you expect insurance/manufacturers to pay for a BRAND NEW car each time a used one goes bad, you're outa luck, because no one will do that.

Case in point, my 2002 Ford Explorer with only 30k on it was totaled during Hurricane Sandy. GEICO (my insurance) wrote me a check for $7,500 to cover it. Obviously this is nowhere close to getting a new vehicle, but IT IS A FAIR SUM FOR A COMPARABLE VEHICLE. I took that money and put a down payment on a new 328i, and I'll be making the rest of the payments out of pocket.

The problem, IMHO, is that BMW only offered compensation on a NEW car. They should have taken the insurance settlement and offered to provide cash on-top to put the OP in a similarly equipped CPO. The net effect is in return for his troubles, the OP would be driving a very similar car with an extended CPO warranty. Very fair.

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey

This. Money for a car of similar year and mileage, plus some goodwill, with the understanding of a NDA, unless you're willing to roll the dice and take it upon yourself, at considerable time, expense and aggravation, to prove BMW's fault/negligence, which appears unlikely. ALL manufacturers go thru this. I went thru this with Lexus and a faulty driveshaft. The fact that it was a fire, while dramatic, is immaterial.

Like most here, I feel for you. It sucks. But no manufacturer/car is perfect.

Money towards a similar year/mileage car plus some good will would have been a fair offer, however per the OP this was not the offer. BMW only offered compensation towards a new car which would have required the OP to come up with $10k+ out-of-pocket.

Originally Posted by gthal

Given the mileage on the car, I have to say that I actually think BMW was fair to you. I think it is unreasonable to expect them to give you a new car... maybe if your car was almost new but not at 40K miles. I think the offer of $7,500 in addition to the depreciated value is fair... more than fair.

You're missing a key part of the story. BMW wasn't offering $7,500 cash on top of the depreciated value of the car, they were offering a $7,500 discount off of a new car. OP either didn't have the cash or felt it wasn't reasonable to be asked to pony up $10k+ as a solution. $7,500 cash towards a CPO would have been more-than-fair, but that wasn't offered (at least based on what the OP has written thus far).

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

[...] I think the fact that you didn't just go find a nice CPO 335d to replace it is very telling. [...]

Think about it, there's no way that his insurance settlement would have got him into a similarly equipped CPO without a significant out-of-pocket payment on his part. BMW would have done the right thing by throwing enough cash at him to put him into a CPO, but it seems like they didn't. Disappointing; I would have expected more of BMW.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by EnerJi

Think about it, there's no way that his insurance settlement would have got him into a similarly equipped CPO without a significant out-of-pocket payment on his part. BMW would have done the right thing by throwing enough cash at him to put him into a CPO, but it seems like they didn't. Disappointing; I would have expected more of BMW.

How do you know this? I've had the misfortune of having several vehicles written off over the years. In every case I received a settelment that was sufficient to replace the vehicle with an equivalent vehicle of the same vintage. Most recently, it was an E34 that was likely one of the nicest left in existence. I had a tough time, but I did finally locate some examples that were very close. I received a settlement sufficient to purchase one - over 50% higher than typical "book value". It took some work, but I got there. And no, I didn't feel the need to involve an attorney. I fight my own battles.

Don't lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a 4 year old car that was owned outright. The only potential scenario in which one would be "upside down" is if they owed more than the current value. This just doesn't apply in this case. Even if it was financed, it's deep enough into the contract that it would likely have a healthy amount of equity by now.

I think BMW was more than generous with their offers. They didn't have to do anything. The fact that the car was under warranty is irrelevent.

[Tsuyoi]

Originally Posted by EnerJi

The problem, IMHO, is that BMW only offered compensation on a NEW car. They should have taken the insurance settlement and offered to provide cash on-top to put the OP in a similarly equipped CPO. The net effect is in return for his troubles, the OP would be driving a very similar car with an extended CPO warranty. Very fair.


Money towards a similar year/mileage car plus some good will would have been a fair offer, however per the OP this was not the offer. BMW only offered compensation towards a new car which would have required the OP to come up with $10k+ out-of-pocket.





You're missing a key part of the story. BMW wasn't offering $7,500 cash on top of the depreciated value of the car, they were offering a $7,500 discount off of a new car. OP either didn't have the cash or felt it wasn't reasonable to be asked to pony up $10k+ as a solution. $7,500 cash towards a CPO would have been more-than-fair, but that wasn't offered (at least based on what the OP has written thus far).




Think about it, there's no way that his insurance settlement would have got him into a similarly equipped CPO without a significant out-of-pocket payment on his part. BMW would have done the right thing by throwing enough cash at him to put him into a CPO, but it seems like they didn't. Disappointing; I would have expected more of BMW.

No, the insurance COULD put him in a similarly equipped car. Maybe not CPO, but similarly equipped definitely, unless his insurance is crappy and severely underestimated the value of the car. That's the whole point of insurance, to put you in a SIMILAR car to the one you lost.

BMW didn't have to do ANYTHING. If both BMW's and the insurance company's investigations did not point to a fault of BMW for the fire, AND insurance already paid for the value of the lost vehicle, then they could have just washed their hands of it and walked away (most auto companies WILL do this).

You keep assuming BMW was somehow at fault here, but as TWO investigations have shown, they were not. If you buy a TV, and a burglar comes and steals it, is the manufacturer responsible for compensating you in any way? No.

OP could also have just opted to decline the BMW offer, and buy a second hand similarly equipped car with the money he got from insurance with no out of pocket cost. The fact that he simply wants a new car instead does not mean BMW is then obligated to him in any way.

Ultimately, BMW not only paid for a rental car, but also essentially offered the OP the option of switching to a BRAND NEW 3 SERIES from his 4 YEAR OLD AT END OF WARRANTY 3 SERIES for only 10k. Hell, if anyone ever offered me that kind of deal in ANY situation, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

OP himself admits it's not the lack of monetary offer from BMW that bothers him, it is the NDA. In this case, you can't expect a company to pay you $7,500 for something THAT ISN'T THEIR FAULT and ALSO allow you to go to the press bad mouthing them.

In this case, I'm in full agreement with BMW's response, and am honestly glad that OP is getting outa BMW, so he'll stop giving the rest of us BMW drivers a bad image

[chrisny]

I feel for you, but their offer was fair. A new tv is a few hundred, not $50,000. And that new tv you expect, in your analogy, would probably not be new, but refurbished.

Was the $7500 offered on a CPO to avoid any out of pocket for you? Did you ask for that option?

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Wow!!!! Guy drives an ageing car, doesn't pick up that it is on fire. Suffers significant CONSEQUENTIAL damage as a result of. Expects BMW to put him into a brand new car, but as BMW only offered (still way over what any other manufacturer would cover) a discout amounting to maybe $8,000-$10,000 (including the discount off list, invoice value), which must be close to 30% the value of his destroyed car, he is upset........and he comes on here to whine about it?

Lol, my thought exactly. He got a good deal out of it, and comes here to whine but it backfired.

BMW insurance here in Sweden gives you a new car if the car is totaled if the car has less then 25k miles and is 48 months or newer. After that you get the market value +20%, so in this case the last part fits the deal pretty well that the OP got.

[pkimM3r]

Im thinking with a couple more calls and putting in reasonable offers he would have either gotten a. an even bigger discount or b. an opportunity to get into a similar car at no cost. A 2008 with only 40k miles. Dealers would be pricing that kind of car pretty high. But then again bmw na dont own these dealerships so i think option b would have pretty much been impossible. Maybe they could sell one of their head office employee's car that was similar lol. I would love to work there. Wish they had hq in california.
They jumped from 2500 to 5000 to 7500. Maybe op could have said 10k and you got a deal. Say thanks. Then Post on the boards anyways and say i just drove by a car on the freeway that was on fire.

[RPM90]

The OP needs to answer some of the questions posed.
He comes here to get sympathy, empathy, or advice, but then doesn't give all the information.

If we had details we'd know, but we don't, so all we can do is speculate.

I'm wondering if this event even happened. Maybe this is some psychological or moral experiment getting data for some paper. Where are the cameras?

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Im thinking with a couple more calls and putting in reasonable offers he would have either gotten a. an even bigger discount or b. an opportunity to get into a similar car at no cost. A 2008 with only 40k miles. Dealers would be pricing that kind of car pretty high. But then again bmw na dont own these dealerships so i think option b would have pretty much been impossible. Maybe they could sell one of their head office employee's car that was similar lol. I would love to work there. Wish they had hq in california.
They jumped from 2500 to 5000 to 7500. Maybe op could have said 10k and you got a deal. Say thanks. Then Post on the boards anyways and say i just drove by a car on the freeway that was on fire.

If BMW found no defect, it makes one wonder why there was any offer at all, let alone increasing offers from $2500 to $5000 to $7500.
Things that you go Hmmmmm.....?

[HighlandPete]

Not quite sure how to take the OP's experience.

Most points have been covered, insurance pay out, indicates no defect proven, goodwill offered, offer of discounted new car, all seems in order.

I sense a "trying it on" stance, OK put pressure on for what is reasonable. But thinking a new car (paid for by BMW) is the way forward as recompense seens totally out of balance, unless there is something not being stated here.

There doesn't appear to be a history of the 3-series catching fire. If there was, I'm sure Europe would be aware of this, with the high percentage of diesel BMW vehicles on our roads. There has been a recall in the UK, VOSA (Vehicle & Operator Services Agency) have reference and recall number for a limited production of some models, but not 3-series diesels for a possible fire risk in the fuel heater.

Even if there were a proven defect, what would be reasonable? Replacement to similar spec' and value, with a decent dose of goodwill?

There is no mention of what the OP's deposit is now put on? New car? So not sure the issue is buying new, or comparable vehicle.

I know we feel slighted when these things happen, but I sense we can get far to emotional about our cars, I'd certainly not give up on a brand, over a bad experience. And I've had them with several cars, including exchanging a 'lemon' with VW, fighting for a new V8 engine with BMW, so know a bit about dealing with VW and BMW at UK HQ level.

HighlandPete

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The OP needs to answer some of the questions posed.
He comes here to get sympathy, empathy, or advice, but then doesn't give all the information.

If we had details we'd know, but we don't, so all we can do is speculate.

I'm wondering if this event even happened. Maybe this is some psychological or moral experiment getting data for some paper. Where are the cameras?

Perhaps he thought better on continuing to discuss this on a public forum. Bad idea all the way around.

[Sprocket]

I have absolutely no experience in situations like the described one. However, I don't get how this is not entirely BMWs fault?

1. The car was under warranty
2. The car catches fire
3. The cause was inconclusive?

Again, I have no experience in the field. But what other than malfunction would cause a fire as described? Not being silly, I am curious.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by Sprocket

I have absolutely no experience in situations like the described one. However, I don't get how this is not entirely BMWs fault?

1. The car was under warranty
2. The car catches fire
3. The cause was inconclusive?

Again, I have no experience in the field. But what other than malfunction would cause a fire as described? Not being silly, I am curious.

Anything really. If they were able to determine conclusively that it was an issue with the car, then they'd likely take care of it and initiate a large scale engineering study. But it was inconclusive. There's no way to prove or disprove that it was an issue with the car or something else.

Who's to say the car didn't have a coolant leak, overheated and burned down? You just can't say with any level of certainty. Maybe the OP ran over something and it got sucked into the engine bay or wrapped up under the car in the exhaust. Maybe a tech left his leftover fireworks from the 4th of July lying on the motor. It's anybody's guess.

Why should BMW take full responsibility when there's nothing conclusive indicating that they're responsible? Does not compute. Shit happens. It sucks. Life goes on. Have reasonable expectations and you'll do just fine. Have unrealistic expectations, and you'll be forever disappointed.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Sprocket

I have absolutely no experience in situations like the described one. However, I don't get how this is not entirely BMWs fault?

1. The car was under warranty
2. The car catches fire
3. The cause was inconclusive?

Again, I have no experience in the field. But what other than malfunction would cause a fire as described? Not being silly, I am curious.

It is easy to blame BMW for some fault, but it has to be proven, to say they are definitely liable. May be why the insurance paid out, rather than pass the liability to BMW. Likely no proof, no other BMW cars doing the same, or inconclusive. I'm sure they (insurance) would be looking to pass the blame to save paying out. Especially as an under hood fire would look like a malfunction/fault.

One poster suggested rodents... that is a possibility. (Houses have had electrical fires due to rodent eating cables). Say it was, and it couldn't be identified, can we blame BMW?

We don't know all the facts, but it does look as if BMW were offering goodwill, but not accepting liability. There could be valid reasons why BMW are not accepting liability. But again we don't know the details presented to the OP which supports their position.

HighlandPete

[Sprocket]

Thanks. I was under the impression that "external causes" (rodents, etc.) would likely be discovered in an inspection. It seems whenever I hear of or read about residential fires they usually find the cause. However, I can see how cars might be more complex too investigate. Anyway, I was simply curious.

[chrisny]

Seriously, the insurance covered his loss. BMW owed him nothing but offered over 10 grand in discounts. Whether or not they offered the discounts on a pre owned car (which they have far less margin on, by the way) or a new one is irrelevant. Insurance paid for the car that was lost. No one will ever give you full replacement 4 years later, what sense would that make.

This whole thread has become ludicrous. So many entitled people on here it seems. You get what you pay for, nothing is free. He got his value from the car for 4 years, paid his insurance premiums, and his insurance paid him what the car was worth, same as they would had he hit a tree and totaled it. It's no different, since BMW was not found at fault. He is welcome to take that money and go buy another 4 year old 40k + miles car, or take a very generous offer from BMW on a brand new one.

There is no "gap" here, his insurance paid what his car was worth. Trying to get someone to pay the difference between a 4 year old car and a new one and calling it a gap as if it is owed to you is insane. The gap between what his car was worth and what he received is ZERO. In fact, by my calculations, he was at least $7500 AHEAD for his troubles.

[wins76]

I think I know how the OP feels. He spend 50k plus to buy a car and planned to use it till the end of life (let say 15 years). But with the fire of unkown cause(s), it destroyed his car. Futhermore, to add more to the wound; the insurance money plus BMW goodwill were not enough to get him a new one. So, if OP buys a new car to cover 11 years of the orginal planned life of the 1st car, his total cost would be (100,000 minus 17k minus 7500) = 75k. 25k down the hole again. Here my advice "HIRE A LAWYER".

When someone say "Shit happend, It suck, life goes on" I totally disagree, I wish I can say that to the families of those 20 kids that got killed. If its an act of God so be it but if it an act of human, let find out why it happend (study it) and how to prevent it, so we can make this world more safer for all of us.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by wins76

I think I know how the OP feels. He spend 50k plus to buy a car and planned to use it till the end of life (let say 15 years). But with the fire of unkown cause(s), it destroyed his car. Futhermore, to add more to the wound; the insurance money plus BMW goodwill were not enough to get him a new one. So, if OP buys a new car to cover 11 years of the orginal planned life of the 1st car, his total cost would be (100,000 minus 17k minus 7500) = 75k. 25k down the hole again. Here my advice "HIRE A LAWYER".

When someone say "Shit happend, It suck, life goes on" I totally disagree, I wish I can say that to the families of those 20 kids that got killed. If its an act of God so be it but if it an act of human, let find out why it happend (study it) and how to prevent it, so we can make this world more safer for all of us.

Horribly inappropriate comparison. congratulations on the most obscure and ridiculous post of the day.

[wins76]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Horribly inappropriate comparison. congratulations on the most obscure and ridiculous post of the day.

So you don't think that fire would kill him if he stay minutes longer? How about when he dies, BMW just gives his family $7500?

[jdong]

Originally Posted by wins76

So you don't think that fire would kill him if he stay minutes longer? How about when he dies, BMW just gives his family $7500?

Umm, no, if he were injured or dead, then accidental death insurance or the bodily injury part of his car insurance would have kicked in, and he would've been compensated with more than enough money to buy a parking lot full of BMW's in his afterlife ;-)