[tclardy]

After reading all the threads of the past couple of weeks I am now more undecided and unsure that I was before.

I am wondering the best route to go with Bavsound upgrade with stock under seat woofers. I was set on going with the JL option but I am now unsure of how it will sound with these speakers and having no eq, just tone controls. I don't want harsh sound. Wish there was at least a five band eq in the hi-fi system!

Techniq has stated that Ms-8 has reliability issues and I am not sure about the power of the amps. The big MS-8 thread here had some people who like this amp. But not sure how it sounds with the BSW speakers.

The Match amps sounds nice, most expensive but wondering how hard it will be to tune.

Also wonder if the under seat woofers will handle the power of the bigger amps here.

HMMMMMMM!!!

[instalher]

ms-8 is a great product and is very reliable. is it bullet proof, no. but its as good as any other top brand name product.. As far as will it work with the Bav sound speakers, yes it will, the big difference will be the ms-8 will offer more power, with a very cool dsp, which will taylor the sound of your bmw to a much better overall sound, with minimal tuning. in my opinion, don't upgrade your speakers, try the ms-8 first, if the sound you get is not what you are looking for and its the speakers fault... Then source out better drivers. I would recommend scan speak tweetes, focal kp100 mids for the door, hybrid audio 8s for under the seat. Now the 8s due need more power than the ms-8 can give so a small 300 watt amp should be enough for this duty.. a jl audio 300.1 would due just nicely

[Technic]

Let's be clear for once... the MS-8 is far from bulletproof. I will say that you may have a possibility of a defective MS-8 in about 75% of the time on average. Me, as an installer, got a 88% defect rate.

Now... if you are lucky enough to have a good MS-8 (I got one personally after 2 warranty replacements) then you will be blessed with the best sounding DSP in the market if you know how to auto-tune it.

Good luck (in a Liam Neeson voice).

Originally Posted by instalher

ms-8 is a great product and is very reliable. is it bullet proof, no. but its as good as any other top brand name product.. As far as will it work with the Bav sound speakers, yes it will, the big difference will be the ms-8 will offer more power, with a very cool dsp, which will taylor the sound of your bmw to a much better overall sound, with minimal tuning. in my opinion, don't upgrade your speakers, try the ms-8 first, if the sound you get is not what you are looking for and its the speakers fault... Then source out better drivers. I would recommend scan speak tweetes, focal kp100 mids for the door, hybrid audio 8s for under the seat. Now the 8s due need more power than the ms-8 can give so a small 300 watt amp should be enough for this duty.. a jl audio 300.1 would due just nicely

[Tomahawk]

you are saying 8 out of 10 MS8's are bad?! I have had 3 and all worked perfectly. Of course, I am not a dealer and 3 is a small sample. Your experience with them is much higher vs me. But, i have been quite involved in the ms8 discussions on DIYMA and havent seen anything to that degree. It could be that people were buying them that never used forums, just bought it under advise from a friend or installer, as forum users are in the minority. I was lucky i never had to deal with "airplane engine noise", so definitely not "bulletproof". But that is pathetic if its an accurate portrayal.

I am in no way saying you are wrong. I just had no idea the QC was that bad. Were these early units that you had so much issue with? And then just stopped using it (naturally) due to the issues you had?

Obviously, I recommend the MS8 route, as I was VERY pleased with mine. And I have installed 3 of them, and all worked flawlessly. Chances are you wouldn't buy one new so just make sure you are buying it from a trustworthy user.

Currently awaiting the restocking of a certain piece of hardware needed to install mine into my lease 3er *cough* harness *cough*.

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by Technic

Good luck (in a Liam Neeson voice).

No, that was Marko ... from Tropoyov He said "I will find you.. and i will kill you"

Seriously though, wtf... 88%?? Is that what ms-8 owners are seeing? what exactly are the symptoms you are seeing?

I can't wrap my mind around that number. If that were true (9 out of 10 ms-8's are defective and need to be returned), this product's only good purpose is to seed a compost bin. And people left and right would have been piping up about this prouct as being garbage.

Something is not adding up... care to be more specific?

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by tclardy

...Techniq has stated that Ms-8 has reliability issues ...

I had to dig pretty deep in Techniq's history/list of postings before i was able to find the ONE generic posting that he made about this. I have seen no one else post about these problems. what gives?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

I had to dig pretty deep in Techniq's history/list of postings before i was able to find the ONE generic posting that he made about this. I have seen no one else post about these problems. what gives?

In the MS-8 benefit... I started installing MS-8 back at introduction (about summer 2009 I think) and most of the units defects were caused by the display socket at its PCB (JBL know about this defect beforehand as they used white glue to secure the jack to the PCB on top of the soldering) . It just broke by just looking at it. Then it was overheating problems.

In all, I installed a total of 17 MS-8 between 2009 and 2011 -15 of them replaced under warranty once, 14 out of those replaced twice. Including 2 of my 3 own units.

I do not know if JBL has made any changes since then to the MS-8 hardware, what I know is that if you ask me for a MS-8 PnP harness I mention this particular disclaimer.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

No, that was Marko ... from Tropoyov He said "I will find you.. and i will kill you"

Taken 3, bro...

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by Technic

Taken 3, bro...

dang.. is it out already? i need to GO - best main-character-kicks-everyones-ass-thru-whole-movie-and-never-breaks-a-fingernail-in-process franchise in that genre

[Fronzdan]

Wasn't the airplane rushing noise a result of leaving the calibration headset connected all the time? Some software glitch that resulted in crazy feedback. I specifically installed a short extension cable so I could easily connect/disconnect the headset without pulling apart the trunk liner to get at the unit.

[instalher]

ok just sayn all product has problems and the ms=8 is no different, perfect, no, but its as reliable as monsconi, arc audio ect, but the ms-8 does a great job a hell of a lot simpler than most dsp based products..

[tclardy]

I guess I will look at the JL or the Helix Match. Anyone run the JL with the bavsounds? Are they okay without further equalization?

[tclardy]

I have read several threads where it is stated that the Bavsound speakers were designed to sound best with the factory amp and may not sound good with an aftermarket amp of higher quality.

The factory speakers were also designed to work and sound best with the factory amp but most everybody says adding a better amp is really good bang for the buck and is where you should start.

The Bavsounds are higher quality, I was surprised at how puny the stock speakers were when I removed them.

Therefore, if an amp makes the stock speakers sound better it should be even better with he bavsounds. Both of these were designed for the stock amp, so therefore if the stocks sound better with amp the Bavsounds will too. Does this make sense?

[eling23]

Originally Posted by instalher

I would recommend scan speak tweetes, focal kp100 mids for the door, hybrid audio 8s for under the seat.

Which scanspeak tweets would fit the sail panel without modificaion? didn't know the hybrid audio 8s are out. do they fit and are they a drop in replacement? i'll have to check it out.

[instalher]

scan speak need to be modifie, not a big deal tho.. i can due this in less than an hr, and it will look stock, as far as Hybrid Audio 8 they are on Scotts desk waiting for beta testing, so i don't know when the release date will be probably this summer,, i can wait.. i know Gary Biggs and Andy Wehmyer both use the Rockford p3 shallow 8. and they loved them.. ps they are the same as the helix shallow 8s..

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by tclardy

I have read several threads where it is stated that the Bavsound speakers were designed to sound best with the factory amp and may not sound good with an aftermarket amp of higher quality.

The factory speakers were also designed to work and sound best with the factory amp but most everybody says adding a better amp is really good bang for the buck and is where you should start.

The Bavsounds are higher quality, I was surprised at how puny the stock speakers were when I removed them.

Therefore, if an amp makes the stock speakers sound better it should be even better with he bavsounds. Both of these were designed for the stock amp, so therefore if the stocks sound better with amp the Bavsounds will too. Does this make sense?

What amp did you end up deciding on? and what was your thought process there ...

My JBL MS-8 DSP and JL Audio XD800/8 are at the Post Office right now (it was attempted to be delivered this morning, but i wasn't home, so they took it back to the local PO I gotta wait till tomorrow to get it.

I'm a little curious too about your last question... Everything in me says that any speaker will benefit from an upgraded amp, but i guess we'll see this weekend. i am very pleasantly surprised by how good the BSW S-1's sound with the OEM amp compared to the stock speakers. Even if i never did this upgrade, i would be happy with the SQ. But i want a tad bit louder, so .. upgrade. I'll be able to give you my impressions about how much better (if better) the BSW's sound with a better quality after-market amp.

I'm taking a chance on the MS-8. The unit is supposedly only a year old, so i'm hoping that a later production run will have solved most of the earlier issues that Technic (and others) spoke about. The previous owner said he had no issues with it. But the other thing is that i'm not using it to power most of the speakers (only center). The XD800 will do most of that work. I want to use the MS-8 mostly for its DSP capability

[tclardy]

I hope you get a good one, you know how the dice rolls can be! I am very curious too. I have a JL 600/6 being delivered today. I ordered the harness form Technic also. I am excited to hear how these are going to sound.

I don't need or want a center channel as I feel it just mucks up sound staging and overall tonality. I am betting the Bavsounds sound pretty good as they seem to be good quality speakers.

Another Idea I might try is using the two channels that drive the rear speakers to drive a subwoofer in the trunk. I would not have rear door speakers but I am not sure how much they add anyway.

I will update when I get this finished.

[Tomahawk]

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

I'm taking a chance on the MS-8. The unit is supposedly only a year old, so i'm hoping that a later production run will have solved most of the earlier issues that Technic (and others) spoke about. The previous owner said he had no issues with it. But the other thing is that i'm not using it to power most of the speakers (only center). The XD800 will do most of that work. I want to use the MS-8 mostly for its DSP capability

Wondering why you arent powering the center with the JL? What is your plan instead?

[tclardy]

I do not want a center speaker in my car. It causes problems with imaging, soundstage and separation. I like center channels on home theaters but I play my audio unit at home in stereo mode. Same for the car.

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk

Wondering why you arent powering the center with the JL? What is your plan instead?

initially i will, but i'm gonna be upgrading the floor woofers to earthquake sws-8's later, and I want to decent power to them, so I am planning to bridge 2 channels each for each of the earthquake floor subs. everything I've read about the earthquakes seem to indicate you gotta put some power behind them for them to work well. so my final config will prob look like this:

ch1 - front left bsw s-1 mid/tweeter (75w rms @4ohm)
ch2 - front right bsw s-1 mid/tweeter (75w rms @4ohm)
ch3 - rear left bsw s-1 mid (75w rms @4ohm)
ch4 - rear right bsw s-1 mid (75w rms @4ohm)
ch5+6 - bridged left floor earthquake sws-8 (200w rms @4ohm)
ch7+8 - bridged right floor earchquake sws-8 (200w rms @4ohm)

that's just my initial thought... I will probably experiment with a bunch of different configurations before it settles. still need to parse through a ton of ms-8 tuning threads, so it will prob look a different at the end

[Tomahawk]

Gotcha.....

Ideally you would could run the entire front stage active from all 8 channels, power rears from MS8. Then maybe add trunk sub will small mono. In this case, we really need a 5 or 7 channel amp, other wise you are left with unused channels. That is my most frustrating thing with MS8. I plan on powering doors/center with ms8, underseats with 2 channels from MS1004 and 10" trunk sub from other 2 channels of MS8. If mine wasnt a lease, I would rewire everything to run fully active. You could get the 2 ohm sws and free up other channels, maybe. I know JL states only 100 watts @ 2ohm, but I have to feel it is more.

[squidlyboy]

i finally got my ms-8/xd800 in yesterday, but unfortunately, the mic/headset was damaged in transit. one of the sides of the headset snapped in transit and the wire to the other was hanging by a thread. fortunately, the seller said he would replace it with a new one for me.

But for the short time i had to play with the two units last night before shipping the ms-8 back today, all i can say is WOW. Its hard to describe what i heard, but I was stunned by how unreal and immersive the music can now be. This prob sounds stupid, but even those frequency/sound sweeps used during the calibration of the cabin sounded impressively full lol :-D It reminded me of those little Dolby jingles you hear in the theaters before a movie starts. i can tell you definitively that the BSW's are not all they can be without some raw power behind them. You are definitely making the right choice to swap out the OEM amp. The clarity, detail, and expansion of the music is really just breathtaking.

While i'm waiting for the ms-8 to be swapped, i'm going to take this week to play with the xd800 itself. In combo with the ms-8 last night, it was more or less a dumb, clean, powerful amp with all its settings, filters, xovers turned off and all the settings left to the ms-8. With the ms-8 out of the picture this week, i can play with the xo's, freq settings, gains, etc on the xd800 and see how it performs on its own without the ms-8. i expect to be pretty blown away with just the amp as well.